Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

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wixfjord
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by wixfjord »

munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 12:47 pm Looking at the current Munster squad in comparison to what JVG inherited, and to me at least, it is clear that he has done a great job off of the field.

He has reviewed the structures from the ground up, and cleared dead wood from the academy and senior squads, added a large number of academy graduates to the senior squad and supplemented them with top class signings.

He also put together a great team of coaches, which now includes a brilliant rugby brain running the academy and development structures.

I would love to see JVG stay on in a DOR role like with Cullen, and sign a proven head coach just like Leinster have in Lancaster.

IMO the current Munster squad and setup would be seen as a much more attractive role for any head coach than it has since Kidney left.

I would love to see some local coaches come into the setup, someone like Prendergast or McNamara as backs coach, and obviously rog as head coach.
Leo isn't DOR, he's Head Coach.

Like JVG.

Lancaster is a heavily involved senior coach with previous head coach experience.

Like Larkham.

It's literally the same setup.

But of course you're well aware of that!

I would wager the big difference is Leo is open minded and self aware enough to let Lancaster and the others do their thing and feel empowered.

I wonder is JVG?
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by riocard911 »

dropkick wrote: November 25th, 2021, 8:39 am
Fan with smartphone wrote: November 24th, 2021, 9:04 pm I always found Munster thrilling. The famous try against Tolouse sticks out, but they had so many great displays over a long period. Like Leinster are extremely forward orientated now this past few years at least. Are they thrilling? Well sometimes the tries arrive a bit too predictably, but that is one hell of a first world problem. I don’t hear too many complaints. Their problem as I see it has been expectation management and putting the cart before the horse for a while. They keep thinking they are almost there and then haven’t really, truly put the long-term groundwork in, because the temptation to delay that and win now has them away mad. In reality they’ve had a good side, as good as any on their day, but it’s not enough to be as good as anybody. You have to be demonstrably better. Hence the semi-finals.

Penny I think was a good man, but he preached a wide-wide game that had absolutely no bite. Now that’s maybe not what he was trying to coach, but that’s what he was getting. And it wasn’t just Munster, he went to the Waratahs and the same thing plagued him. It feels like it could’ve been an easy fix and I’d love to see Penny coaching and doing well again, but he seemed to get the balance wrong between trying to manipulate and stretch the defence for the next phase too much and never got any gaddam go forward.

I do think under Anthony Foley, god rest him, and then Rassie Erasmus they steadied that ship. JvG when I see those quotes about the bulls today sounds like a man keen enough to get back home. Maybe I’m wrong there. If they were to end up looking again and presumably O’gara and O’Connell aren’t options, and they are looking south, I’ve been banging the drum on Brad Thorn a while now. A lock forward suits the image of what they might want, but he has developed young players at Queensland, whilst playing a very likeable brand of exciting, tough rugby along wuth it. I think that CV is particularly suited to coaching an Irish province and is the skillset of what we should be looking for. He might have other fish to fry, but he’d be a very good fit in my opinion. I’d love to see a homegrown coach too tbh, but whether van Grann continues or they end up back on the dating scene, I think there needs to be an acceptance of where it’s at right now before they can make real headway. They are going to have very few front line Irish internationals and really need to do the time and develop from within.
I don't agree about Penney. He got munster to 2 Heineken semi finals and came close to winning both. Got away draws too I might add. He had 2 seasons playing a similar style to Connacht under Pat Lam. It all clicked in Lams 3rd season.


There was a big push for Foley in the media led by his close Friend Keith Wood. Foley was Penneys forward coach and made it clear he didn't agree with Penneys style of play which gives an indication of what Penney was up against. Far from steadying the ship, the ship was sinking with Foley in charge. That's why they got Rassie to steady it.
That's how I saw it back then too; that Foley, having plotted behind Penney's back, came unstuck, when he tried to implement the "back to basics" program, which he, Woodie and some of the more myopic red faithful seemed to think was all Munster needed to top the pile again. Boy, was that a mistake....
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munster#1
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

wixfjord wrote: November 25th, 2021, 1:27 pm
munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 12:47 pm Looking at the current Munster squad in comparison to what JVG inherited, and to me at least, it is clear that he has done a great job off of the field.

He has reviewed the structures from the ground up, and cleared dead wood from the academy and senior squads, added a large number of academy graduates to the senior squad and supplemented them with top class signings.

He also put together a great team of coaches, which now includes a brilliant rugby brain running the academy and development structures.

I would love to see JVG stay on in a DOR role like with Cullen, and sign a proven head coach just like Leinster have in Lancaster.

IMO the current Munster squad and setup would be seen as a much more attractive role for any head coach than it has since Kidney left.

I would love to see some local coaches come into the setup, someone like Prendergast or McNamara as backs coach, and obviously rog as head coach.
Leo isn't DOR, he's Head Coach.

Like JVG.

Lancaster is a heavily involved senior coach with previous head coach experience.

Like Larkham.

It's literally the same setup.

But of course you're well aware of that!

I would wager the big difference is Leo is open minded and self aware enough to let Lancaster and the others do their thing and feel empowered.

I wonder is JVG?
Granted, their official positions are as head coach and senior coach, but from the outside looking in, to me it looks clear that Cullen takes a back seat when it comes to his involvement in coaching.
Then again, I am not privy to the day to day operations at Leinster.

However, the below quote from Lancaster does lend itself to that theory.

"There is a strong pull for me to be involved in the club game because I love the day-to-day and week-to-week stuff and I am lucky to have the role of head coach at Leinster. I want to give something back to them for the chance they gave me and the way they have embraced me and my family.

Source: https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/le ... 26046.html

Anyway, that is but semantics. The point still remains.
wixfjord
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by wixfjord »

munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 1:49 pm
wixfjord wrote: November 25th, 2021, 1:27 pm
munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 12:47 pm Looking at the current Munster squad in comparison to what JVG inherited, and to me at least, it is clear that he has done a great job off of the field.

He has reviewed the structures from the ground up, and cleared dead wood from the academy and senior squads, added a large number of academy graduates to the senior squad and supplemented them with top class signings.

He also put together a great team of coaches, which now includes a brilliant rugby brain running the academy and development structures.

I would love to see JVG stay on in a DOR role like with Cullen, and sign a proven head coach just like Leinster have in Lancaster.

IMO the current Munster squad and setup would be seen as a much more attractive role for any head coach than it has since Kidney left.

I would love to see some local coaches come into the setup, someone like Prendergast or McNamara as backs coach, and obviously rog as head coach.
Leo isn't DOR, he's Head Coach.

Like JVG.

Lancaster is a heavily involved senior coach with previous head coach experience.

Like Larkham.

It's literally the same setup.

But of course you're well aware of that!

I would wager the big difference is Leo is open minded and self aware enough to let Lancaster and the others do their thing and feel empowered.

I wonder is JVG?
Granted, their official positions are as head coach and senior coach, but from the outside looking in, to me it looks clear that Cullen takes a back seat when it comes to his involvement in coaching.
Then again, I am not privy to the day to day operations at Leinster.

However, the below quote from Lancaster does lend itself to that theory.

"There is a strong pull for me to be involved in the club game because I love the day-to-day and week-to-week stuff and I am lucky to have the role of head coach at Leinster. I want to give something back to them for the chance they gave me and the way they have embraced me and my family.

Source: https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/le ... 26046.html

Anyway, that is but semantics. The point still remains.
Takes a back seat in coaching? What do you mean by that?
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

wixfjord wrote: November 25th, 2021, 2:12 pm
munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 1:49 pm
wixfjord wrote: November 25th, 2021, 1:27 pm

Leo isn't DOR, he's Head Coach.

Like JVG.

Lancaster is a heavily involved senior coach with previous head coach experience.

Like Larkham.

It's literally the same setup.

But of course you're well aware of that!

I would wager the big difference is Leo is open minded and self aware enough to let Lancaster and the others do their thing and feel empowered.

I wonder is JVG?
Granted, their official positions are as head coach and senior coach, but from the outside looking in, to me it looks clear that Cullen takes a back seat when it comes to his involvement in coaching.
Then again, I am not privy to the day to day operations at Leinster.

However, the below quote from Lancaster does lend itself to that theory.

"There is a strong pull for me to be involved in the club game because I love the day-to-day and week-to-week stuff and I am lucky to have the role of head coach at Leinster. I want to give something back to them for the chance they gave me and the way they have embraced me and my family.

Source: https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/le ... 26046.html

Anyway, that is but semantics. The point still remains.
Takes a back seat in coaching? What do you mean by that?
I am definitely not trying to deflect on this, but I can only see this discussion going one way, and I don’t think anyone will benefit from this.

The purpose of my post is to highlight that Munster could benefit from moving JVG to a DOR role and hiring a head coach.

We can agree to disagree at this stage, as it will eliminate the inevitable.
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by wixfjord »

munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 3:35 pm

The purpose of my post is to highlight that Munster could benefit from moving JVG to a DOR role and hiring a head coach.
Maybe bring in someone who has had a Super Rugby head coach role in, say, Australia and is recognised as an innovative backs coach with a history as a world class Wallabies 10?
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

wixfjord wrote: November 25th, 2021, 4:02 pm
munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 3:35 pm

The purpose of my post is to highlight that Munster could benefit from moving JVG to a DOR role and hiring a head coach.
Maybe bring in someone who has had a Super Rugby head coach role in, say, Australia and is recognised as an innovative backs coach with a history as a world class Wallabies 10?
This is exactly how I envisaged it would play out.
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by wixfjord »

munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 4:23 pm
wixfjord wrote: November 25th, 2021, 4:02 pm
munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 3:35 pm

The purpose of my post is to highlight that Munster could benefit from moving JVG to a DOR role and hiring a head coach.
Maybe bring in someone who has had a Super Rugby head coach role in, say, Australia and is recognised as an innovative backs coach with a history as a world class Wallabies 10?
This is exactly how I envisaged it would play out.
You could've told Johann that a few years back!
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by Oldschool »

wixfjord wrote: November 25th, 2021, 4:34 pm
munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 4:23 pm
wixfjord wrote: November 25th, 2021, 4:02 pm

Maybe bring in someone who has had a Super Rugby head coach role in, say, Australia and is recognised as an innovative backs coach with a history as a world class Wallabies 10?
This is exactly how I envisaged it would play out.
You could've told Johann that a few years back!
He wouldn't have understood then and still doesn't.
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by riocard911 »

I see that in Gauteng, the province where Munster are playing this coming weekend and the one after, there have been a number of infections with a new, supposedly more potent covid-19 variant from Botswana. Hopefully the Munster lads can keep their bubble well sealed and get their asses home safe and sound!!!
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

riocard911 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:13 pm I see that in Gauteng, the province where Munster are playing this coming weekend and the one after, there have been a number of infections with a new, supposedly more potent covid-19 variant from Botswana. Hopefully the Munster lads can keep their bubble well sealed and get their asses home safe and sound!!!
This trip really couldn’t have come at a worse time.
I know there are considerably more important things than rugby, but with the HC the week after this tour, Munster could be in trouble should any of the players contract Covid.
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by ronk »

munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 3:35 pm

I am definitely not trying to deflect on this, but I can only see this discussion going one way, and I don’t think anyone will benefit from this.

The purpose of my post is to highlight that Munster could benefit from moving JVG to a DOR role and hiring a head coach.

We can agree to disagree at this stage, as it will eliminate the inevitable.
He's in his fifth season. Larkham is giving up in his 3rd.

Munster continue to underperform on and off the field. There's the last few years of the old guard and some talented players who still have time. Change while you can.
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by deco »

munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:31 pm
riocard911 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:13 pm I see that in Gauteng, the province where Munster are playing this coming weekend and the one after, there have been a number of infections with a new, supposedly more potent covid-19 variant from Botswana. Hopefully the Munster lads can keep their bubble well sealed and get their asses home safe and sound!!!
This trip really couldn’t have come at a worse time.
I know there are considerably more important things than rugby, but with the HC the week after this tour, Munster could be in trouble should any of the players contract Covid.
Look on the bright. It would be a better excuse than Holy Communions or pen theft 👍
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by Hornet »

munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:31 pm
riocard911 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:13 pm I see that in Gauteng, the province where Munster are playing this coming weekend and the one after, there have been a number of infections with a new, supposedly more potent covid-19 variant from Botswana. Hopefully the Munster lads can keep their bubble well sealed and get their asses home safe and sound!!!
This trip really couldn’t have come at a worse time.
I know there are considerably more important things than rugby, but with the HC the week after this tour, Munster could be in trouble should any of the players contract Covid.
UK just suspended flights from SA.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59424269
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by Barry »

Hornet wrote:
munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:31 pm
riocard911 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:13 pm I see that in Gauteng, the province where Munster are playing this coming weekend and the one after, there have been a number of infections with a new, supposedly more potent covid-19 variant from Botswana. Hopefully the Munster lads can keep their bubble well sealed and get their asses home safe and sound!!!
This trip really couldn’t have come at a worse time.
I know there are considerably more important things than rugby, but with the HC the week after this tour, Munster could be in trouble should any of the players contract Covid.
UK just suspended flights from SA.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59424269
Have to feel sorry for munster, potentially stranded in a foreign country where they know nobody, none of them speaks afrikaans, unfamiliar food etc. If only one or two of the players or coaching staff had some contacts in that part of the world.

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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

Hornet wrote: November 25th, 2021, 9:30 pm
munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:31 pm
riocard911 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:13 pm I see that in Gauteng, the province where Munster are playing this coming weekend and the one after, there have been a number of infections with a new, supposedly more potent covid-19 variant from Botswana. Hopefully the Munster lads can keep their bubble well sealed and get their asses home safe and sound!!!
This trip really couldn’t have come at a worse time.
I know there are considerably more important things than rugby, but with the HC the week after this tour, Munster could be in trouble should any of the players contract Covid.
UK just suspended flights from SA.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59424269
Might be worth telling the internationals to stay at home, and maybe send a few others home from SA right away.

The hardest thing is that it would likely mean that Munster would be throwing the 2 league games.
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by blockhead »

Barry wrote: November 25th, 2021, 10:00 pm
Hornet wrote:
munster#1 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 6:31 pm

This trip really couldn’t have come at a worse time.
I know there are considerably more important things than rugby, but with the HC the week after this tour, Munster could be in trouble should any of the players contract Covid.
UK just suspended flights from SA.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59424269
Have to feel sorry for munster, potentially stranded in a foreign country where they know nobody, none of them speaks afrikaans, unfamiliar food etc. If only one or two of the players or coaching staff had some contacts in that part of the world.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
Not funny I suppose. But very true. If any team can feel at home in RSA its Munster.
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ronk
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by ronk »

Team is being announced tomorrow morning. It’s pointless to cancel at this stage. May as well keep going but be extra careful.

If quarantines come in then send a few back after the 1st game, but I’m not sure that’s necessary.
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by IanD »

ronk wrote: November 25th, 2021, 11:58 pm If quarantines come in then send a few back after the 1st game, but I’m not sure that’s necessary.
BBC News - Covid variant: UK put safety first over Africa travel - Shapps
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59428398

If Irish people not back by Sunday they will have to do 10 days Hotel Quarantine as opposed to Self isolation at home.
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Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Any confirmation of the rumour that there is a decent number of supporters with Munster team?
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