Trends

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ronk
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Re: Trends

Post by ronk »

Bulls-Stormers before the Leinster game, the ref is so quiet. It's refreshing
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Dexter
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Re: Trends

Post by Dexter »

ronk wrote: June 4th, 2021, 7:51 pm Bulls-Stormers before the Leinster game, the ref is so quiet. It's refreshing
Like the good ole days
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Trends

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Big hits. The goal line drop out means that kickers can drop the ball on someone from up high and the catcher often gets smashed by guys who have had a 20m run up.

It also means that counter attacking is more important than ever. Teams have the chance to run the ball back if the ball goes long and it's the same for failed attempts at the 50:22. Teams are dropping players back to cover the kicks which means that they have someone to pass to if the ball doesn't go out. It's not leading to much yet, but it will.

A lot of games I've watched recently remind me of playing British Bulldog as a kid, just two lines of people running into each other. The rugby part of the game is becoming incidental and I f**king hate it!
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Re: Trends

Post by Dave Cahill »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: September 13th, 2021, 4:00 pm A lot of games I've watched recently remind me of playing British Bulldog as a kid, just two lines of people running into each other. The rugby part of the game is becoming incidental and I f**king hate it!
Somewhat ironically, and counter intuitively given your comment about two lines etc, the NRL has been cracking this season with some great rugby played
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Trends

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Dave Cahill wrote: September 13th, 2021, 4:02 pm
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: September 13th, 2021, 4:00 pm A lot of games I've watched recently remind me of playing British Bulldog as a kid, just two lines of people running into each other. The rugby part of the game is becoming incidental and I f**king hate it!
Somewhat ironically, and counter intuitively given your comment about two lines etc, the NRL has been cracking this season with some great rugby played
It actually follows perfectly because (and I had meant to say this) Union is becoming more and more like League!
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Re: Trends

Post by Ruckedtobits »

A masterclass in coaching from Australia has traditionally related to their back play or their general off-loading. On this occasion v the 'Boks, all the plaudits must go to the defensive play of the Wallabies pack.

Their defensive maul was superb. Their scrum work learned how not to concede penalties to a superior force. The tackling of their forwards in open play was magnificent and overall better than 90%

An excellent bonus point win against the World Champions but on this occasion, defensive superiority was the key, allied to great attacking play from winger Korendete and prop forward Teotupe (?).

Great to see this display and some balance and entertainment in a international rugby game.

Lots of learnings for the Leinster forward Coaches - body positions & binding in defensive mauls, tackling quality by forwards, scrum body positions based on a front-row platform. This was an Aussie pack without any second-row giants - because they're all in Europe. But Leinster second & back-rows can learn a lot from this display. Big packs can be nullified by technical excellence combined with cohesion.
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Re: Trends

Post by fourthirtythree »

This looks interesting. Focus on high hits has been ineffective obviously.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... by-success
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Trends

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I can’t find my post that said it so it must be in another thread but I said recently that the 50:22 won’t lead to more running rugby because if you give top teams the chance to kick and play it safe then they usually take it.

From everything I’ve seen recently I think I’m right. The only difference IMO is that when teams are stuck near halfway they look for touch instead of a box kick.

Early days of course but I never thought it was likely to reduce kicking and I don’t see how the powers that be thought it would either. Honestly at times I think they come up with changes and barely consider the consequences.

When you look at some of the successful teams playing turgid rugby over the last few years (SA, Saracens, Exeter, and even Leinster at times) is it really more likely that teams are going to play a different game with this new law (and copy Quins for example) or are they going to double down on that risk free style and pick a kicking ten and a beefier pack to make hay in the opposition 22? It’ll be interesting to see how Ireland and France try and cope with NZ who look good again. My bet is that Ireland don’t go toe to toe like they did in Chicago and that France play more like Toulouse did in their finals last season instead of attacking from everywhere.
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dropkick
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Re: Trends

Post by dropkick »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: September 18th, 2021, 1:19 pm I can’t find my post that said it so it must be in another thread but I said recently that the 50:22 won’t lead to more running rugby because if you give top teams the chance to kick and play it safe then they usually take it.

From everything I’ve seen recently I think I’m right. The only difference IMO is that when teams are stuck near halfway they look for touch instead of a box kick.

Early days of course but I never thought it was likely to reduce kicking and I don’t see how the powers that be thought it would either. Honestly at times I think they come up with changes and barely consider the consequences.

When you look at some of the successful teams playing turgid rugby over the last few years (SA, Saracens, Exeter, and even Leinster at times) is it really more likely that teams are going to play a different game with this new law (and copy Quins for example) or are they going to double down on that risk free style and pick a kicking ten and a beefier pack to make hay in the opposition 22? It’ll be interesting to see how Ireland and France try and cope with NZ who look good again. My bet is that Ireland don’t go toe to toe like they did in Chicago and that France play more like Toulouse did in their finals last season instead of attacking from everywhere.

It'll be interesting to see how it goes. I only saw one player talk about it, Halam Amos I think or some other Welsh fullback. He said he is standing further back than usual. IF that will be the case then I think we will see more dinks in behind the defensive line. In general there should be more space.

That's if it has any effect. It might have such little effect that coaches ignore it and take the chance of not conceding a 50/22 rather than leave space elsewhere.
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Re: Trends

Post by riocard911 »

fourthirtythree wrote: September 18th, 2021, 12:47 pm This looks interesting. Focus on high hits has been ineffective obviously.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... by-success
I'm old school. Personally I could totally do without all this breakdown, clearout, steal, jackling nonsense. What happened to Dan Leavy is just one of the worst examples, that it's not worth it in terms of player welfare. IMO the way to go would be, if the game returned to the players not being allowed handle the ball on the floor at the ruck.
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Re: Trends

Post by riocard911 »

Ruckedtobits wrote: September 18th, 2021, 10:21 am A masterclass in coaching from Australia has traditionally related to their back play or their general off-loading. On this occasion v the 'Boks, all the plaudits must go to the defensive play of the Wallabies pack.

Their defensive maul was superb. Their scrum work learned how not to concede penalties to a superior force. The tackling of their forwards in open play was magnificent and overall better than 90%

An excellent bonus point win against the World Champions but on this occasion, defensive superiority was the key, allied to great attacking play from winger Korendete and prop forward Teotupe (?).

Great to see this display and some balance and entertainment in a international rugby game.

Lots of learnings for the Leinster forward Coaches - body positions & binding in defensive mauls, tackling quality by forwards, scrum body positions based on a front-row platform. This was an Aussie pack without any second-row giants - because they're all in Europe. But Leinster second & back-rows can learn a lot from this display. Big packs can be nullified by technical excellence combined with cohesion.
+1
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Re: Trends

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

riocard911 wrote: September 18th, 2021, 4:56 pm
fourthirtythree wrote: September 18th, 2021, 12:47 pm This looks interesting. Focus on high hits has been ineffective obviously.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... by-success
I'm old school. Personally I could totally do without all this breakdown, clearout, steal, jackling nonsense. What happened to Dan Leavy is just one of the worst examples, that it's not worth it in terms of player welfare. IMO the way to go would be, if the game returned to the players not being allowed handle the ball on the floor at the ruck.
I couldn’t disagree with you more but from the Top14 games I’ve seen this season the refs basically couldn’t care less what happens at the breakdown. Lie over the ball, go off your feet, come in perpendicular to the sideline, have your hands on the ground, rest your knees on someone else, absolutely nothing matters the majority of the time.

I don’t see the game going like that in the rest of the world, but when it’s so extreme there and when you’ve got a lot of French refs who will be doing big games then I wouldn’t be surprised if it leans more towards that kind of free for all and that really worries me.
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ronk
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Re: Trends

Post by ronk »

I'll have to try and watch it.

Amazing to think that it's only 2 years since the RWC. We were flying and SA were the least feared of the 3N. England had improved but losing was half about a dip in our form.

Japan had a speed based game that shredded us and NZ did worse to us.

SA winning was a surprise, they played well but it sorta opened up for them and it suited them that England went all out to power through them but hadn't rotated.

The final, the Lions and the HC struggles we've had against some of the power teams have led us to see a very different trend but it's possible that we've been missing the mark somewhat.
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Re: Trends

Post by Ruckedtobits »

The Aussie v SA game is well worth a watch. Australia now have a group of burly low-slung props who handle and tackle well and understand and can execute their roles in set pieces, including the maul. However, it is their tackling across the team which struck me most forcibly.

Once you have defensive solidity, the team confidence in attack improves and players seem to recognise the importance of "cherishing the pill" and using it to best effect.

Overall, this was a real contest of power and intellect and the Aussie Coach will be very pleased with the progress his group have made.
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Re: Trends

Post by ronk »

That Oz pack wasn't exactly small. And they went for an almost 21 stone tighthead and 2 locks over 18 stone.
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Re: Trends

Post by Ruckedtobits »

ronk wrote: September 20th, 2021, 8:14 am That Oz pack wasn't exactly small. And they went for an almost 21 stone tighthead and 2 locks over 18 stone.
Sure, Rodda at 2.02m & 119kg and Philip at 1.98m & 115kg are reasonably sized. Tupoa at tight head is a 135kg phenom with extraordinary acceleration and great hands. He would certainly take on and beat Cian H over 20m. However, overall the Aussie pack looked smaller than the Boks, but matched them in the tight.
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Re: Trends

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Just like when Hooper blew an overlap in favour of an attempt at a 50:22 Glasgow did it at least twice against Ulster. From the first they blew a two on one near halfway and the second was for the charge down that resulted in Doak’s try.

I’ve seen a good few kicks that ended up in 50:22s but the kicker hadn’t meant it and looked bewildered when they got the lineout.

I said it would lead to a lot of kick tennis with most of the players doing shuttles as the game passed them by and it is happening a fair bit.

I haven’t seen much criticism of the 50:22 but I absolutely hate it, really think it’s ruining games.
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ronk
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Re: Trends

Post by ronk »

The 50:22 rule makes it easier to get into the 22, favours lots to big booted kickers and the goal line drop outs make it harder to convert from in close.

Could start seeing a lot more drop goals (relatively).
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Re: Trends

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Hoping we will see some innovation (grubber kicks, skip pass & scissors, double skip or flat kick pass) in goal-line attacking from Leinster today. The heavy-metal pick / latch / drive has had it's time and we now need to see a more effective method of try-scoring.
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Re: Trends

Post by Dave Cahill »

Two Ospreys goal line dropouts dropkicked straight back over the bar tonight by the sharks - both from about 45m
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