Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Forum for the discussion of other Teams and Clubs as well as General Rugby chat.

Moderator: moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 11517
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by ronk »

Some other posters on the forum are grown ups too. Starting off by calling people childish was counter-productive if you didn't want to be seen as a troll.

Dim, childish, retards, idiots. Have you noticed that you are on your own insulting other posters?
User avatar
munster#1
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4801
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

wixfjord wrote: September 19th, 2021, 12:30 pm
munster#1 wrote: September 19th, 2021, 12:25 pm

Changed to more PC terminology.
Oh it's not about being 'PC' at all.

You used a dated and insulting term there. What you meant to say was:

'Sorry, shouldn't have said that, I've changed it.'
Well at the risk of going seriously off topic, I do acknowledge that what I said was incredibly insensitive which is why I changed it so quickly.

I am grateful for your advice.
Keith
Mullet
Posts: 1292
Joined: November 8th, 2012, 8:29 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by Keith »

munster#1 wrote: September 19th, 2021, 12:02 pm I can assure you all that what I said was not an attempt to troll or WUM or whatever childish behaviour you believe someone may engage in.
I am a 36 year old adult, who has better things to do than wind up strangers online.

I made the comment in an attempt to mitigate against the usual negativity that surrounds any post relating to Keatley and Munster.
It was an attempt to ensure that we finally see some positivity posted regarding Keatley as he looks to the next chapter.

The vast majority of Munster fans were and are still mad about Keatley, he was a great servant of Munster Rugby and always gave 100% to the jersey.

The act of the small number of idiots who jeered him during one game does not define the collective group.
Can you show us some examples of this? Maybe there is, but I'm genuinely completely unaware of any animosity from Leinster fans towards Keatley. I've seen some truly horrendous stuff said about him on Munster fans forums alright, which eventually led to that infamous night in TP.
wixfjord
Shane Jennings
Posts: 7175
Joined: April 13th, 2009, 1:00 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by wixfjord »

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/spor ... gJjQaLgSPA
The Leader has learned that head coach Johann van Graan, forwards coach Graham Rowntree and defence coach JP Ferreira are set to be given the opportunity to extend their time as key members of Munster's backroom team.
User avatar
munster#1
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4801
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

wixfjord wrote: September 20th, 2021, 7:37 pm https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/spor ... gJjQaLgSPA
The Leader has learned that head coach Johann van Graan, forwards coach Graham Rowntree and defence coach JP Ferreira are set to be given the opportunity to extend their time as key members of Munster's backroom team.
Interesting times ahead.
User avatar
LeRouxIsPHat
Cian Healy
Posts: 13786
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 7:49 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

That Munster selection is abysmal. Starting a season with Scannell and Goggin in the centre and thinking JOD is so good that he has to be shoe horned in at 7 just makes no sense to me. Same with starting Ryan but at least it’s Knox on the bench.

Same old same old, JVG never learns.
User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 11517
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by ronk »

Munster: Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Dan Goggin, Rory Scannell, Simon Zebo; Joey Carbery, Craig Casey; Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Peter O’Mahony (C), Jack O’Donoghue, Gavin Coombes.

Replacements: Diarmuid Barron, Jeremy Loughman, Keynan Knox, RG Snyman, Thomas Ahern, Rowan Osborne, Ben Healy, Chris Cloete

Bit weird alright. 2 locks on the bench and an openside. No cover whatsoever for the outside backs with 3 recognised outhalves.

Looks like they picked all the available SA players.
User avatar
munster#1
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4801
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

Very strong side from Munster, looking like something very close to first choice in the starting 15, with some real impact on the bench.

Munster are rightly expecting a tough battle up front, and have picked the team based on this.

I am really excited to see RG and Ahern move into the row. They will add massively to the lineout, and both are very mobile around the field.
Additionally, with Joey and Rory playing together you get 2 great play makers creating time and space for the men outside them, and also both have the ability to pin a team into their own half with the boot, allowing Munster to play in the right part of the field.

We are likely to see Joey play 80 mins which will probably involve him moving to the wing or FB.
User avatar
munster#1
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4801
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: September 24th, 2021, 12:01 pm That Munster selection is abysmal. Starting a season with Scannell and Goggin in the centre and thinking JOD is so good that he has to be shoe horned in at 7 just makes no sense to me. Same with starting Ryan but at least it’s Knox on the bench.

Same old same old, JVG never learns.
Both Farrell and DeAllande are unavailable, and IMO JOD has all the attributes to play 7 in this team as there are plenty of lads with strong breakdown abilities not to have to have a groundhog 7.

IMO Munster look to be prioritising a victory in their first ever game against this opposition, which IMO is the correct move at this part of the season.
OTT
Mullet
Posts: 1665
Joined: February 2nd, 2012, 4:19 pm
Location: Blackrock

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by OTT »

It’s a textbook JVG selection, we had our days under MOC where we would (or I would) have to make up fantasy stories why he was playing certain guys over other guys, delighted those days are long gone. Munster should win anyway and the charade can be kicked down the road.
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

~The Late Great Mick English
User avatar
munster#1
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4801
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

OTT wrote: September 24th, 2021, 2:14 pm It’s a textbook JVG selection, we had our days under MOC where we would (or I would) have to make up fantasy stories why he was playing certain guys over other guys, delighted those days are long gone. Munster should win anyway and the charade can be kicked down the road.
Hopefully you are right, a win is vital during these early phases.
Sets the tone and helps build momentum.

Hopefully we get to see Zebo run in a couple of tries.
wixfjord
Shane Jennings
Posts: 7175
Joined: April 13th, 2009, 1:00 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by wixfjord »

Don't see a lot wrong with that selection bar Cloete at 23 and maybe Ryan starting TH personally.

What else would people want to see?
User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 11517
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by ronk »

munster#1 wrote: September 24th, 2021, 2:55 pm
OTT wrote: September 24th, 2021, 2:14 pm It’s a textbook JVG selection, we had our days under MOC where we would (or I would) have to make up fantasy stories why he was playing certain guys over other guys, delighted those days are long gone. Munster should win anyway and the charade can be kicked down the road.
Hopefully you are right, a win is vital during these early phases.
Sets the tone and helps build momentum.

Hopefully we get to see Zebo run in a couple of tries.
:shock: :shock: :shock:
User avatar
LeRouxIsPHat
Cian Healy
Posts: 13786
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 7:49 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

wixfjord wrote: September 24th, 2021, 8:45 pm Don't see a lot wrong with that selection bar Cloete at 23 and maybe Ryan starting TH personally.

What else would people want to see?
Anything!

That’s the point, JVG just doesn’t try anything at all. Crowley at 12 or at least as an option to do so off the bench is one thing. Given their back three options I’d even have tried Zebo at 13, Goggin just isn’t up to it and I don’t see the value in playing him. I know that’s a mad idea (but he’s played there a few times I think) but we have Healy moving to tighthead and that’s the kind of thinking they need to try because what they’ve been doing hasn’t worked. Or play Daly at 13 now that he’s not needed as much in the back three.

Hodnett isn’t fit but I bet he won’t be given a proper shot when he is. JOD just isn’t the answer at 7 so maybe start Ahern and move Wycherley to 6 with POM to 7.

Just do something to indicate that he knows they need to improve in certain areas and give something a go, especially first game up when he’s had so much time to prepare something.
User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 11517
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by ronk »

It's a late season start with almost everyone available. It's different from other years where the start is a chance for easy gametime. This year it'll be more spread out. Sharks are coming from Currie Cup so there's a need to start fast.

Most importantly, it's the first game back in front of fans. Everyone wants to be out there. Leinster have done the same.
I fully agree about JvG, it's just this week doesn't tell us much about his willingness to develop.
User avatar
munster#1
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4801
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: September 25th, 2021, 12:07 am
wixfjord wrote: September 24th, 2021, 8:45 pm Don't see a lot wrong with that selection bar Cloete at 23 and maybe Ryan starting TH personally.

What else would people want to see?
Anything!

That’s the point, JVG just doesn’t try anything at all. Crowley at 12 or at least as an option to do so off the bench is one thing. Given their back three options I’d even have tried Zebo at 13, Goggin just isn’t up to it and I don’t see the value in playing him. I know that’s a mad idea (but he’s played there a few times I think) but we have Healy moving to tighthead and that’s the kind of thinking they need to try because what they’ve been doing hasn’t worked. Or play Daly at 13 now that he’s not needed as much in the back three.

Hodnett isn’t fit but I bet he won’t be given a proper shot when he is. JOD just isn’t the answer at 7 so maybe start Ahern and move Wycherley to 6 with POM to 7.

Just do something to indicate that he knows they need to improve in certain areas and give something a go, especially first game up when he’s had so much time to prepare something.
With all due respect, moving a LH at the tail end of his career to TH can’t be seen as a positive forward step.
If anything it is the complete opposite. It is taking gametime from actual THs who have been relegated to playing with the development squad.
Likewise moving a young TH that only recently converted to that position and has already established himself as a solid international, back to his original position can be interpreted many ways.

I am all for change and giving lads a go, but the timing has to be right, as does the quantity of changes.
The first game of the season against a team you’ve never played before is not the time IMO. There will be plenty of opportunities through the season and the more credit you have in the bank the more opportunities will be made available.
We will get to see more of Coombes and Casey along with Barron, Knox, Ahern, Healy and new recruit osbourne which is a positive step IMO.

I definitely have to respectfully disagree with your comments about Goggin, IMO he is a very good player.
Maybe he won’t have a stellar international career, but I do rate him and enjoy watching him play. He has a good mix of power and skill, with a good ability to create space for those around him.

I do agree that Daly should be looked at at 13. He has played there in the past and could be a good alternative option going forward.

All that aside, isn’t it great to be back discussing selections and looking forward to going to a match.
User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 11517
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by ronk »

Munster are not experts on tighthead development, to put it mildly. So lecturing us on developing young tightheads when you poached our main developing tighthead and then didn't play him is not going to fly.

We have a new young tighthead we are developing. He's injured.

Porter isn't moving without the express approval, and probably somewhat at the request of, the national coaching team.

The best time to switch positions is between seasons when you can train and plan.
User avatar
LeRouxIsPHat
Cian Healy
Posts: 13786
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 7:49 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

ronk wrote: September 25th, 2021, 9:32 am Munster are not experts on tighthead development, to put it mildly. So lecturing us on developing young tightheads when you poached our main developing tighthead and then didn't play him is not going to fly.

We have a new young tighthead we are developing. He's injured.

Porter isn't moving without the express approval, and probably somewhat at the request of, the national coaching team.

The best time to switch positions is between seasons when you can train and plan.
I wouldn’t get hung up on specifics, but you can easily see them getting to a champions cup knockout game and wondering why they’ve come up short again having not tried anything different throughout the season.
User avatar
fourthirtythree
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9768
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:33 pm
Location: Eight miles high

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by fourthirtythree »

I don't like picking on him but Scannell is a real weak link in midfield. He makes defensive reads as bad as James Lowe with very little upside. He's among their most capped players up to last season when they upgraded. Van Graan knows they won't win anything with him in the side but I guess he'll be told to kick the leather off the ball like the back three.

Which is the style these days.

I guess the opposition will be licking their lips at the thought of running at that 9 10 12 13.
Datta: what have we given?
My friend, blood shaking my heart
The awful daring of a moment's surrender
Which an age of prudence can never retract
What the thunder said to Brian Lenihan
User avatar
munster#1
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4801
Joined: June 18th, 2009, 3:47 pm

Re: Munster Rugby 2021/2022 - Search for the Holy Grail

Post by munster#1 »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: September 25th, 2021, 11:59 am
ronk wrote: September 25th, 2021, 9:32 am Munster are not experts on tighthead development, to put it mildly. So lecturing us on developing young tightheads when you poached our main developing tighthead and then didn't play him is not going to fly.

We have a new young tighthead we are developing. He's injured.

Porter isn't moving without the express approval, and probably somewhat at the request of, the national coaching team.

The best time to switch positions is between seasons when you can train and plan.
I wouldn’t get hung up on specifics, but you can easily see them getting to a champions cup knockout game and wondering why they’ve come up short again having not tried anything different throughout the season.
That is a distinct possibility, as it is for Leinster should they come up against another physical team that bullies them as I don’t believe that Healy to TH is something that fixes that.

Munster have performed possibly an unrivalled clearout of players along with promoting a possibility unrivalled number of homegrown talent with 9 players coming from the academy in one season.
If you don’t see that as a remarkable move towards development, or looking for change, then I don’t know what you would accept or expect.

Throughout this season we will see a large number of appearances going to developing players so there is no need to get hung up on this one game.
In this game, the starting team has been selected to win, and the bench looks to be selected to develop players.
Post Reply