Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

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riocard911
Seán Cronin
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by riocard911 »

Was just listening to Brent Pope on OTB. He was at a loss to explain Leinster's inability to impose their game on the opposition, when it counted most, having essentially blown everyone else away this season. Certainly, I was afraid, that playing a French team in the South of France, we were gonna find ourselves in a situation similar to Bordeaux in 2012 with the possibility of it going either way. To a degree - goal line defence in the last quarter for minutes on end - this is what transpired. In light of that, would we be better in the future sending our frontliners down to RSA to battle harden them, rather than wrapping them up in cotton wool for weeks on end? Just a thought. I don't know the answer myself....
wixfjord
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by wixfjord »

CiaranIrl wrote: May 28th, 2022, 8:20 pm
wixfjord wrote: May 28th, 2022, 8:08 pm
Dave Cahill wrote: May 28th, 2022, 8:00 pm Theres nothing wrong with critical analysis as long as its within the bounds of propriety
Yep, and there's been nothing remotely close to 'improper' at all about post match reaction here anyway.
You're acting like someone accused someone of being 'improper' (quotes are yours).
Nope, i'm not at all. I'm agreeing with Dave actually.

And disagreeing with this idea that criticism of that performance is unwarranted.
Cheeses of Nazareth
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by Cheeses of Nazareth »

Gutted for the lads. Few big moments swung it, ball hitting JOB’s knee, the bounce from the ensuing drop goal. We were on top just before that with LAR looking gassed. But from there on in, we didn’t get a sniff. Dulins kick to the corner from the JGP high tackle was superb.

I felt the score line flattered us at halftime. We had a 10 point swing when we kept them out from the 5m scrum and went up the other end to score 3. LARs indiscipline kept us in it in the first half (and contributed to us not getting any momentum). Disappointing not to win it from there on in but in reality we were second best all day. I think most people expected it to be close for 60 with us hopefully pulling away in the last 20.

It was in essence an away game in conditions which wouldn’t have been ideal for us. We weren’t accurate enough but we fought all day so huge credit to them. Will be avoiding the rugby podcasts this week (aside from the Molecast of course). Onwards and upwards.
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hugonaut
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by hugonaut »

riocard911 wrote: May 28th, 2022, 8:39 pm Was just listening to Brent Pope on OTB. He was at a loss to explain Leinster's inability to impose their game on the opposition, when it counted most, having essentially blown everyone else away this season. Certainly, I was afraid, that playing a French team in the South of France, we were gonna find ourselves in a situation similar to Bordeaux in 2012 with the possibility of it going either way. To a degree - goal line defence in the last quarter for minutes on end - this is what transpired. In light of that, would we be better in the future sending our frontliners down to RSA to battle harden them, rather than wrapping them up in cotton wool for weeks on end? Just a thought. I don't know the answer myself....
Nah, I don't think anything replicates the emotions or the nervous energy of a final.

It's worth remembering that La Rochelle are a really good team and were in the final of the Top14 and the European Cup this time last year, and beat us in the semi-final of the former.

It's a tough scene having to go down to France and play a good French team in a stadium full of French fans. We rarely play our best stuff down there – Toulouse in 2010, Toulon in 2014 QF and 2015 SF, Clermont in 2017 SF, La Rochelle in 2020 SF.

You don't get access to any emotional energy other than what 15 lads on the pitch bring themselves, while the other crowd have literally tens of thousands of people in the stadium roaring for them and disputing every decision against them.
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the spoofer
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by the spoofer »

It’s easy to be a supporter when things are all going well. Harder when they don’t. Time to dig in and do our job.
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Oldschool
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by Oldschool »

Reaching a final is a great achievement.
Losing a final is an awful experience.
Tomorrow is another day.
C'mon Leinster.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
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curates_egg
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by curates_egg »

Deja vu.
It felt inevitable after we never got a foothold or platform in the first half.
A sickening feeling to lose the same way again.

My only gripe is that La Rochelle should have had a player in the bin in the first half for multiple infringements, killing any momentum.
Even then though, I’m not sure we could have capitalised.

No shortage of effort. That defensive set at the end was heroic, even if ultimately unsuccessful.
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munster#1
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by munster#1 »

Unfortunately I know all too well how you all feel right now.
That was an extremely crushing defeat, as it was Leinster’s game to lose all the way from the semi final right up to the 78th minute.

I fully expected Leinster’s superior experience and knowledge of how to close out big games to see the over the line.

Although Leinster lead going into the last couple of minutes, and they could well have won, I am surprised at Leinster’s tactics and lack of ability to impose their game, and to control the tempo.

It’s amazing to think that this Leinster team have only managed 1 HC in 10 years.
They are by far the best team in Ireland, in the URC and are definitely one of the best in the business in Europe.

As a Munster fan I really hope that Leinster don’t improve any more, but Leo needs to find the secret ingredient to get them past teams who impose a strong arm game on them.

Saying all that, you should be very proud of your team, and enjoy the fact that you are privileged to support a team of Leinster’s calibre.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Serb
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by Serb »

We’ve won 2 in the last 10 years. And made two other finals. Top two in 40% of the finals. No other club has made more finals than us in the last decade. And that was in a period of utter dominance by Toulon and then Saracens.

But you already knew that.
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munster#1
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by munster#1 »

Serb wrote: May 28th, 2022, 9:53 pm We’ve won 2 in the last 10 years. And made two other finals. Top two in 40% of the finals. No other club has made more finals than us in the last decade. And that was in a period of utter dominance by Toulon and then Saracens.

But you already knew that.
I’m really sorry if you were offended by my post, as that was definitely not my intention, definitely not today anyway.

I may have made an error, but even after research I’m still seeing that 2018 is the only (and I say that loosely as only is probably not the right term) one they’ve won in the 10 years since the 2012 victory under Joe?

I mean the post in the nicest possible manner. I fully believe that Leinster have had the players to win the cup more than once in this time.
They’ve continuously had a crop of players that most teams in the world could only dream of. Players who are for the most part starting internationals, and even lions players.

Again, not trying to be smart or disrespectful as it pains me to say this, I just believe that Leinster should have more stars on their jersey, including 1 from today.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
riocard911
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by riocard911 »

munster#1 wrote: May 28th, 2022, 10:18 pm
Serb wrote: May 28th, 2022, 9:53 pm We’ve won 2 in the last 10 years. And made two other finals. Top two in 40% of the finals. No other club has made more finals than us in the last decade. And that was in a period of utter dominance by Toulon and then Saracens.

But you already knew that.
I’m really sorry if you were offended by my post, as that was definitely not my intention, definitely not today anyway.

I may have made an error, but even after research I’m still seeing that 2018 is the only (and I say that loosely as only is probably not the right term) one they’ve won in the 10 years since the 2012 victory under Joe?

I mean the post in the nicest possible manner. I fully believe that Leinster have had the players to win the cup more than once in this time.
They’ve continuously had a crop of players that most teams in the world could only dream of. Players who are for the most part starting internationals, and even lions players.

Again, not trying to be smart or disrespectful as it pains me to say this, I just believe that Leinster should have more stars on their jersey, including 1 from today.
Don't worry about it. I think the team and the coaching staff are off the same opinion.
riocard911
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by riocard911 »

I hate to say it, but today I felt like I was watching Ireland in the quarter-final of the RWC, where before kick off one has the not unreasonable assumption - on form, in comparison of the team selections etc. - that they'll advance to the next round; and then somehow they manage not to. Consider this: Leinster are bulk providers to the Irish national team, the only one of the tier one nations that has NEVER won a knock-out match at nine rugby world cups. Is it a coincidence? I dunno...
Cheeses of Nazareth
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by Cheeses of Nazareth »

Any word of what happened to Kelleher? Sheehan was excellent again. Might be leapfrogging him sooner than we thought.
enby
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by enby »

I rarely agree with Quinlan but he was spot on his view that the first try was a real gamechanger. It simultaneously put doubts in our psyche and gave LR massive encouragement. It was a well taken score but Keenan's attempted tackle was really really poor.
The concession of a really silly penalty just after half-time was another killer blow.

I think JS is getting some unfair criticism for how he dealt with that vicious bounce from Dulin's missed drop goal. As Shaggy said on tv he had his back to the entire opposition when he got the ball. Yes he should have bogged it out but he had little time to assess the situation. Keenan however should definitely have put boot to ball.

Ruddock should probably have replaced Doris sooner and its a pity Larmour didn't make the bench as his speed might have unlocked the LR defence.

Sadly this one is going to hurt for years. The only way to ease that pain is to come back and win it next year just as La Rochelle did today. I have full faith in this team. Today's misery will make winning it in 2023 all the sweeter.
Last edited by enby on May 28th, 2022, 11:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Leinsterimp
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by Leinsterimp »

Wasn’t great defending from O’Brien either, Furlong would have had the inside man covered but he cut in anyway leaving the winger free
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ronk
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by ronk »

munster#1 wrote: May 28th, 2022, 10:18 pm
Serb wrote: May 28th, 2022, 9:53 pm We’ve won 2 in the last 10 years. And made two other finals. Top two in 40% of the finals. No other club has made more finals than us in the last decade. And that was in a period of utter dominance by Toulon and then Saracens.

But you already knew that.
I’m really sorry if you were offended by my post, as that was definitely not my intention, definitely not today anyway.

I may have made an error, but even after research I’m still seeing that 2018 is the only (and I say that loosely as only is probably not the right term) one they’ve won in the 10 years since the 2012 victory under Joe?

I mean the post in the nicest possible manner. I fully believe that Leinster have had the players to win the cup more than once in this time.
They’ve continuously had a crop of players that most teams in the world could only dream of. Players who are for the most part starting internationals, and even lions players.

Again, not trying to be smart or disrespectful as it pains me to say this, I just believe that Leinster should have more stars on their jersey, including 1 from today.
There isn't an easy way to make that point on a day like this without giving that impression about your intent.

Making 3 finals in 5 years is an incredible achievement. Making 1 would have been. We've seen a 10 year period where Leinster had to completely rebuild again odds that were meant to be impossible. The Champions Cup was purpose designed new format with the express intent of making it an exclusive club of the powerhouse English and French clubs.

ToulonX3, SaracensX3, Exeter, Toulouse, La Rochelle. Exeter and Leinster are the exception to the extremely big, extremely expensive sides. We were the form team but we're the underdogs.

Under severe economic austerity affecting the IRFU Leinster lost major talent like Sexton, Hines, Nacewa and had the retirements of generational talent like BOD, D'Arcy, Heaslip. When we needed to rebuild we had the disastrous Matt O'Connor era. We were in a bad way in Leo's first year.

We rebuilt successfully only to spend years fending off acquisitive other provinces looking to feed themselves on our development pathway. Even apparently insignificant cases like Nick McCarthy still led to Rowan Osbourne subbing in a Heineken Cup semi that we lost.

We lost with a try at the death today having been leading for much of the game. Sure we'll feel it could have been more. But that's sport, we'll come back and hopefully do better. After a close match it will take time to reflect on where we need to be. Normally I'd have been all for taking penalties in a game like this but maybe we needed to be more ruthless in a few positions to put them away.

I think this year we were on the right track, and while it wasn't our year I would not want us to overdo the changes.
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by carlow man »

A lot is going to be expected of a 20 year old and an unproven South African if that's what we are missing in out tight 5. Unfortunately we have gone cheap instead of signing a top class addition which we have needed for 3 years. We couldn't dominate the collisions up front today and were playing on their terms when we had the ball. For some reason we never got to space and I don't remember seeing lowe with his hands on the ball at all. So disappointed after the rugby we have played. All year we have never compounded an error with another. Today we did 3 in a row all within 10 secs. Sextons dummy was number 1, keenans decision to run it was number 2, going off our feet at the next ruck was number 3. We are never that poor. So hard to see that but we deserved what we got. Proud of that team but maybe we just don't have the final piece of the jigsaw just yet.
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

carlow man wrote: May 28th, 2022, 11:29 pm A lot is going to be expected of a 20 year old and an unproven South African if that's what we are missing in out tight 5. Unfortunately we have gone cheap instead of signing a top class addition which we have needed for 3 years. We couldn't dominate the collisions up front today and were playing on their terms when we had the ball. For some reason we never got to space and I don't remember seeing lowe with his hands on the ball at all. So disappointed after the rugby we have played. All year we have never compounded an error with another. Today we did 3 in a row all within 10 secs. Sextons dummy was number 1, keenans decision to run it was number 2, going off our feet at the next ruck was number 3. We are never that poor. So hard to see that but we deserved what we got. Proud of that team but maybe we just don't have the final piece of the jigsaw just yet.
Don’t agree with the part about collisions. We were fine in an attacking sense but let down by poor handling. Defensively yes we were just making soak tackles and finding it hard to stop their momentum at times.

The pack certainly didn’t play anywhere near like they did against Toulouse but I still think they have a decent platform for the backs. It just wasn’t used very well.
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by Blueberry »

Great stadium and great Leinster turnout, hats off to all who travelled, wonderful to be part of it.

Gutted for the lads, one knock on at the end and it was our game but feel our undoing was our lack of ambition and we went into our shell and were tight for the entire game.

LAR were cynical at times with penalties and happy to let us kick three but at many other times this year we have been more ambitious and gone for the corner or tapped and gone. Our passing was tight and laboured at times and we hadn't got anything like the zip or desire to go wide that we showed v Toulouse. Feel like LAR kinda had the tactics spot on and we didn't.

Bottom line is we needed 2/3 tries to win that game for sure and we popped over a load of penalties and came up short by a whisker. Bit more ambition and I think we would have got over a couple of times if not more.

Have been to many away loss be it Toulon or Clermont in Lyon or Sarcens in Newcastle etc and we got beaten, today I think we beat ourselves by not 100% trusting the attacking zeal that has got us here this year.

One we left behind.

Anyway back again to the grindstone and I am sure Glasgow ain't too happy we lost......
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Re: Leinster v La Rochelle Heineken Cup Final Sat 28th May 4.45 Marseille

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

enby wrote: May 28th, 2022, 10:58 pm

Ruddock should probably have replaced Doris sooner and its a pity Larmour didn't make the bench as his speed might have unlocked the LR defence.

In hindsight I think it was a mistake not to have Larmour on the bench because Lowe wasn’t fit. Maybe Henshaw is carrying something so they wanted Frawley to cover for him but thinking about it now that seems like an obvious error.

I don’t necessarily think Frawley is our second best ten but I do think he’s our best 22. Ross had a bad day but I think it was just a one off so I’m not having a cut off him, but Frawley is a better bench option and having the two of them there always seems like an awkward selection. Frawley hasn’t played much at ten recently so I get it for today but in future I think he should be 22 for big games even if Harry kicks on like I hope he does.
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