6 Nations 2023 - Ireland

[MylesNaGapoleen]

Is this right?

Leinster 20
Munster 8
Ulster 5
Connacht 4

our lineup for the cardiff game next week will be interesting. Welsh pack is mostly in the Ospreys squad...who we struggled against in the scrum 2 weeks back (sans Furlong and Porter iirc)

If Ulster were in a better headspace and winning games, with their players on form and humming, the Nordies might have had TOT, Treadwell, Timoney, Hume and Lowry all in the squad or knocking on the door.

They've all shown they're thereabouts in terms of talent, so Ulster is now contributing players at the necessary level.

The problem is they're playing like drains right now.

There was a lot of Ulster representation in the last few U20 squads also, with some v handy players, so at the youth level they're developing in ok numbers too.

Munster seem to have finally turned the page on clinging for grim life onto non-performing veteran players. They've put a ton of work into the academy too. Won't be long before Irish squads are a bit more balanced again.

Spot on. watching LAR v Ulster last weekend it was hard to understand how they have had such a shocking run recently. they must be gutted to lose in the last minutes. 2nd half in the aviva the previous week against LAR might have sparked something. I think ulster will bounce back this weekend and beat Sale. Part of me thinks they might be better off dropping into the challenge cup and possibly win it.

Timony, Hume, Lowry and Treadwell should be part of the WC squad and I reckon they will.

Farrell must believe his coaches can give Stockdale some confidence back...he's lost his mojo so much, I was surprised to see him named for the 6N.

[ronk]

Munster seem to have finally turned the page on clinging for grim life onto non-performing veteran players. They've put a ton of work into the academy too. Won't be long before Irish squads are a bit more balanced again.

The have the 8, 9, 10 axis all young Academy graduates. Only 1 of whom is a Munster starter, and it's a bit unkind but Coombes might not be a starter if Stander hadn't quit.

The other 5 are more an indication of the old reliables being fit: Kilcoyne, Beirne, POM, Murray, Earls.

Munster have really improved their player development, but there's a long way to go. In terms of players threatening to break through there 2 signings in the front row in Loughman and Salanoa. There's Hodnett and Kendellen, but they can't get into an extended Ireland squad with 1 open-side. Neither can Penny but at least we know he's essential for Leinster: Munster can more easily lose one of those 2.

3 or 4 players need to break into the Ireland squad to maintain Munsters numbers if we assume that Earls, Kilcoyne and Murray age out after the RWC. That's progress, I didn't think even maintaining numbers was going to be possible.

[Experimental]

Cant understand how Haley has not made the squad tbh. We are short on good fullbacks and besides Keenan, hes the only one whos been playing in the position consistantly well. As many have said Earls v v lucky, Larmour clearly ran rings around him the last time they played. I can understand the inclusion of Kilcoyne, hes been pretty good since he came back from injury and is definately a level above Loughman. Last chance for Stockdale I'd say, its now or never for him. Disappointed for Hodnett, would have been a great chance to bring him in. Other than that, the squad looks very solid

[Colmodon]

Cant understand how Haley has not made the squad tbh. We are short on good fullbacks and besides Keenan, hes the only one whos been playing in the position consistantly well. As many have said Earls v v lucky, Larmour clearly ran rings around him the last time they played. I can understand the inclusion of Kilcoyne, hes been pretty good since he came back from injury and is definately a level above Loughman. Last chance for Stockdale I'd say, its now or never for him. Disappointed for Hodnett, would have been a great chance to bring him in. Other than that, the squad looks very solid

I think Haley would have a chance of making the squad if Keenan was injured. But given Keenan is nailed on and JOB and Hansen could cover 15 if required, I don't think there's room for an out and out 15 who isn't in the starting lineup

[ronk]

I'm not sure, JOB has 6 starts at fullback this season, Hansen just did 2 games there, Osbourne still has more starts at 15 than he does at 12.

The lad came in ready to go has done 4 1/2 seasons and picked up an experimental cap off the bench in a RWC warm up. He's hit an age where Faz won't look at you unless you force your way in. A specialist 15 who's miles away from competing for a start and can't be put on the bench is not a profile where you get easy chances.

I wouldn't have any major concerns seeing him in green again (& he's an important player for Munster) but he wasn't even in the A game.

Worst case Faz would call him up late and at least he'd have Munster gametime. That's how Faz picks teams.

Byrne got in because he's in the conversation for the 23 rather than a sub sub.

[Experimental]

Personally I would not trust Hansen or Job starting at fullback at international level yet. We all saw how the Henshaw experiment turned out. Haley is 27 I think, so hes not exactly approaching walking stick territory just yet. I have absolutely no doubt that he is the 2nd best fullback in the country at the moment. But as you say his lack of playing wing is probably hurting him. Still would have taken him ahead of Earls or Stockdale. Lets hope Keenan stays fit

[Ruckedtobits]

The lad came in ready to go has done 4 1/2 seasons and picked up an experimental cap off the bench in a RWC warm up. He's hit an age where Faz won't look at you unless you force your way in. A specialist 15 who's miles away from competing for a start and can't be put on the bench is not a profile where you get easy chances.

I wouldn't have any major concerns seeing him in green again (& he's an important player for Munster) but he wasn't even in the A game.

Worst case Faz would call him up late and at least he'd have Munster gametime. That's how Faz picks teams.

+1
Also there are flaws in Haley's game which become apparent the better the opposition. Hugo & JO'B are in a different league regardless of what fans of Munster think.

[ronk]

Personally I would not trust Hansen or Job starting at fullback at international level yet. We all saw how the Henshaw experiment turned out. Haley is 27 I think, so hes not exactly approaching walking stick territory just yet. I have absolutely no doubt that he is the 2nd best fullback in the country at the moment. But as you say his lack of playing wing is probably hurting him. Still would have taken him ahead of Earls or Stockdale. Lets hope Keenan stays fit

There's an element of circumstance in call ups. Young players with potential get call ups ahead of their form. Players on central contracts get chances.

Fullback was wide open for a while as Kearney aged out and he didn't make a dent. There have been opportunities to call him up. It's the same for Molony and O'Loughlin and others.


Earls is an injured player living on reputation, but its a pretty good reputation. Stockdake is a central contract player and may as well be there to see if a different setup with some better players and a view of his competition does something.

[munster#1]

The lad came in ready to go has done 4 1/2 seasons and picked up an experimental cap off the bench in a RWC warm up. He's hit an age where Faz won't look at you unless you force your way in. A specialist 15 who's miles away from competing for a start and can't be put on the bench is not a profile where you get easy chances.

I wouldn't have any major concerns seeing him in green again (& he's an important player for Munster) but he wasn't even in the A game.

Worst case Faz would call him up late and at least he'd have Munster gametime. That's how Faz picks teams.

+1
Also there are flaws in Haley's game which become apparent the better the opposition. Hugo & JO'B are in a different league regardless of what fans of Munster think.

What are the flaws that you are seeing?

[wixfjord]

I think Haley could easily find his way into a RWC squad if Keenan went down.

He's clearly the second best 15 in the country imo.

In terms of him 'hiting an age where Faz won't look at you unless you force your way in' I don't think that's true either. Loughman and Treadwell are two examples, likewise JGP.

Farrell seems to have no issues picking a guy irrespective of age or even whether he's starting for his province.

[Ruckedtobits]

I think Haley could easily find his way into a RWC squad if Keenan went down.

He's clearly the second best 15 in the country imo.

In terms of him 'hiting an age where Faz won't look at you unless you force your way in' I don't think that's true either. Loughman and Treadwell are two examples, likewise JGP.

Farrell seems to have no issues picking a guy irrespective of age or even whether he's starting for his province.

At present, and for the past season, JO'B has been the second best full-back in the country behind Keenan

[CiaranIrl]

I have seen loads of comments on social media talking about what a disgrace it is that the Dublin Meeja refused to select some or all of Mike Haley, Calvin Nash, Antoine Frisch, Shane Daly, Jeremy Loughman, Jean Kleyn & John Hodnett.

As far as I can tell, the thinking goes that they should all be ahead of Jimmy O'Brien, Stockdale, Osbourne, Larmour, Healy, Baird & Conan.

Now all observable evidence seems to have little or no impact on this outrage. Leinster's third choice team beating them for the billionth time, whether home or away, is totally irrelevant. It doesn't matter one iota that Munster are fighting for their lives to be in the top eight of the URC and to scrape into the top 8 of the Champions Cup. Leinster being unbeaten and the top of either champions cup table has no bearing.

But I loved the point the42 podcast made. Paul O'Connell is a key selector for Ireland. I wonder do Munster fans think he is biased towards Leinster and against Munster?

[naraic]

Well I do agree that Haley Nash or Daly can consider themselves unfortunate to behind Keith Earls given that they have him outside the 23 in Munster. That said it would have been one of the three ahead of Earls.

I could also see an argument for Kleyn being ahead of Joe McCarthy but I feel that buying into youth can be advantage too when its close.

Loughman is broken at the moment. When he is better he will return dislodging Kilcoyne.

[ronk]

Well I do agree that Haley Nash or Daly can consider themselves unfortunate to behind Keith Earls given that they have him outside the 23 in Munster. That said it would have been one of the three ahead of Earls.

I could also see an argument for Kleyn being ahead of Joe McCarthy but I feel that buying into youth can be advantage too when its close.

Loughman is broken at the moment. When he is better he will return dislodging Kilcoyne.

Earls hasn't been playing because he's been injured. He's resting up to get a chance to be fit.

Rob Russell has 7 tries in 6 starts (8 games). He's a good player. If Nash is unlucky he's not the only one.

Similarly if someone points out Kleyn, it's as easy to point out Ross Molony who's actually ahead of McCarthy (& Baird as a lock) for Leinster.

Loughman and Kilcoyne haven't been fit for an extended run at the same time.

[wixfjord]

I think Haley could easily find his way into a RWC squad if Keenan went down.

He's clearly the second best 15 in the country imo.

In terms of him 'hiting an age where Faz won't look at you unless you force your way in' I don't think that's true either. Loughman and Treadwell are two examples, likewise JGP.

Farrell seems to have no issues picking a guy irrespective of age or even whether he's starting for his province.

At present, and for the past season, JO'B has been the second best full-back in the country behind Keenan

Nah that's not true. JOB is a great player, but has been playing less and less frequently at 15. He hasn't started a Euro game at 15. Haley has had some excellent games in Europe at 15.

[Ruckedtobits]

It seems like a hundred years ago when Roly Meates, then Irish Coach gave a seminar where he insisted that if the THP was dominant with a strong scrumagger behind him, any scrum would be dominant and undisturbed on their own ball. Step forward John Ryan and Jean Klein who today proved that hypothesis emphatically.

Get Jenkins and Furlong fit as soon as possible. Get Klein into the Irish Squad. His improvement in fitness alone makes him a different player.

[wixfjord]

J Lowe back to Irish squad today according to the Indo.

[the spoofer]

Murray K puff oiece on Dave Kilcoyne today and how his form leaves him in line for a place in the 23. I've seen nothing from Dave K to support that position.

[Laighin Break]

Murray K puff oiece on Dave Kilcoyne today and how his form leaves him in line for a place in the 23. I've seen nothing from Dave K to support that position.

He's a great analyst but he does talk players up too easily. He described Carbery's cross-field kick (in the lead up to Beirne's try) as "beautiful"

[OneLungDavy]

Surely a fine display against the French front row puts him in a good position! His carrying in comparison to Healy is night and day, he's even added passing to his game, something I didn't think he was capable of.

I'd probably still prefer Healy as a scrummager though.