berliner wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 9:44 am
Weird that Treadwell is out given how Farrell has cultivated him.
Very surprised that there's no development players this time.
not surprised by Treadwells omission; did he not get the shepherds hook early in one of the Autumn internationals, and or/dropped for the next one? Can't recall exactly - but there were signs.
I'd imagine they'll bring along a number 'development' players, just not mentioned for now in the 37 man squad announcement.
I get that but thought Farrell's investment in him would continue. Apart from the strange selection of Jacob, Ulster players are on the outs like their form: Treadwell, Timoney, Hume, Lowry. Isn't Tom O'Toole injured?
Yeah, I was thinking that. Not a good squad from an Ulster PoV. Gives them a chance to concentrate on their game though. Hopefully they get it together again.
Stockdale was so good for Ireland though. You can see why him and Earls would get a chance to show something when the alternatives like Nash were never going to start anyway and it's good to have experience in a squad so coaches can focus development.
Morf wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 9:12 am
Are Earls and Stockdale are surprising to anyone else as they are to me?
It's not as big a shock, but I'd add Prendergast to that list as he's really done nothing for Connacht this season. I'd genuinely be terrified to see Stockdale play a game, he looks completely lost for Ulster.
wixfjord wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 10:33 am
Are we 100% sure Carbery isn't injured?
100%? No.
But this news is everywhere that he's dropped, it's the headline. It was obviously going to happen, why do that to the lad if he's only injured. Easy enough to say that he's hurt and spare the headlines.
Morf wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 9:12 am
Are Earls and Stockdale are surprising to anyone else as they are to me?
It's not as big a shock, but I'd add Prendergast to that list as he's really done nothing for Connacht this season. I'd genuinely be terrified to see Stockdale play a game, he looks completely lost for Ulster.
-1.
IMO, Prendergast has had a couple of big, but losing, games for Connacht and figured we'll in NZ.
He was overplayed in Sept- Nov period and needed recovery. He'll come good again in the 2nd half of the season and his line-out work will have improved - possibly towards PO'M standard.
Morf wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 9:12 am
Are Earls and Stockdale are surprising to anyone else as they are to me?
It's not as big a shock, but I'd add Prendergast to that list as he's really done nothing for Connacht this season. I'd genuinely be terrified to see Stockdale play a game, he looks completely lost for Ulster.
-1.
IMO, Prendergast has had a couple of big, but losing, games for Connacht and figured we'll in NZ.
He was overplayed in Sept- Nov period and needed recovery. He'll come good again in the 2nd half of the season and his line-out work will have improved - possibly towards PO'M standard.
Fair enough if he's been carrying niggly injuries this season. I did want him in the squad in NZ, but just feel he's out of form a little at the minute.
Morf wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 9:12 am
Are Earls and Stockdale are surprising to anyone else as they are to me?
It's not as big a shock, but I'd add Prendergast to that list as he's really done nothing for Connacht this season. I'd genuinely be terrified to see Stockdale play a game, he looks completely lost for Ulster.
I'd put Prendergast outside of the top 10 B/R's in Ireland.
Morf wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 9:12 am
Are Earls and Stockdale are surprising to anyone else as they are to me?
It's not as big a shock, but I'd add Prendergast to that list as he's really done nothing for Connacht this season. I'd genuinely be terrified to see Stockdale play a game, he looks completely lost for Ulster.
I'd put Prendergast outside of the top 10 B/R's in Ireland.
Maybe, he's got age on his side so I think they like his potential. Other players have benefited from that before (& now).
Only one specialist 7 is a mistake IMO. POM while a great 6 doesn’t really have the attributes you’d want in a 7 for the style Ireland are trying to play, its just not his natural game. If Timoney out of favour I’d have Hodnett /Penny there ahead of Prendergast, too soon for Conors yet. We’ve a rake of 6/8’s but if VDF pulls a hamstring we’re going to be playing a 6/8 as our openside. Think Stewart from Ulster a bit unlucky, he has looked good in a losing cause. Kleyn has been playing good rugby at the moment too. Killer back in is a strange one, don’t think his form has been stellar. The key thing is how are Tadhg’s hamstrings and can he play. We can survive without J10, get by but not prosper to the same extent maybe, if Furlong is not available our chances diminish considerably.
The continued investment in Carbery over the last 18 -24 months when his form didn’t really merit it makes his omission strange, unless they are thinking of two squads and will change it up over the course of the tournament. Maybe it’s a coaching rocket up the proverbial to see how he responds. He has been an automatic choice up to now. Imagine Ben Healy's head is fried this morning. Henshaw for one will come back in once fit I suspect. Stockdale is a weird one, can see the merit of Earls as an elder lemon from a squad perspective, Jacob less so. He is not there on form (neither is Aki but he has great charisma and presence so can see his value to a squad), so you have to wonder why Stockdale is there ahead of players like Haley or Nash who are. Stockdale selection for me is a come to Jesus Jacob, this is your last chance to find your 2018/9 form or you lose your central contract. Worth remembering when he was good he was very good, but at the moment he cant catch a cold so the pressure is on. Delighted for Larmour, he has something no other Irish player has and has had a cr@p time with injury. Osbourne has come a long way in a short time, he has stepped up seamlessly every time so far. Will be watching him with interest.
Hope they keep the development players up, worth looking at the likes of Hodnett, Penny, the Murrays – mandating a visit to the barbers for the younger lad - Salanoa, Patterson, Milne, Stewart. Dangle the carrot and get the young lads motivated.
Makes the Cardiff game a great opportunity for the younger Leinster players with Mike, JJ hopefully and Rhys.
munster#1 wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 9:12 am
Looking at the squad, form seems to have been ignored in some instances.
Of course "form seems to have been ignored in some instances." The same applies to every single squad, anywhere, in any sport. The manager/coach will always select players who have delivered for him/her in the past. How this comes as a surprise to you is baffling. One man's opinion on form differs greatly from another person's.
The decision to select Ross Byrne makes total sense. Lots of talk about Carbery and Cowley playing in multiple positions. I'd much rather we go to the 6N and RWC with 2 recognised out and out fly halves and one utility 10/12/15 than Sexton plus two guys who aren't, including Carbery imo at this level, or who are not yet, specialist 10s.
Justification for Murray is always that he can close out games. Thornley gushing all over OTB studios about this yesterday. The same applies to 10. In a RWC game against SA, winning or losing, I'd much rather have Ross Byrne on fhe e bench than crowley or cafbddyr.
IMO, Prendergast has had a couple of big, but losing, games for Connacht and figured we'll in NZ.
He was overplayed in Sept- Nov period and needed recovery. He'll come good again in the 2nd half of the season and his line-out work will have improved - possibly towards PO'M standard.
Prendergast is also very trainable which is why I think the likes of Stockdale and Earls are in. Maybe they won't get picked but they will put the other players through their paces and keep them sharp. Farrell has always made interesting and eclectic choices in his squad so I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Timoney not being there probably surprises me the most. Agree POM, Baird and Prendergast is a bit of a surfeit of 6s.
Stockdale seems sort of a luxury, given we have Lowe, Hansen who play LW and JOB to cover FB.
Loughman is unlucky to be injured at the wrong time.
Faz is very ready to give you a chance, but he's just as ready to banish you to the wilderness if something "better" comes along. Must be tough for Lowry, Hume, Treadwell, Carter, Heffernan, Timoney, etc etc
jezzer wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 1:31 pm
Timoney not being there probably surprises me the most. Agree POM, Baird and Prendergast is a bit of a surfeit of 6s.
Stockdale seems sort of a luxury, given we have Lowe, Hansen who play LW and JOB to cover FB.
Loughman is unlucky to be injured at the wrong time.
Faz is very ready to give you a chance, but he's just as ready to banish you to the wilderness if something "better" comes along. Must be tough for Lowry, Hume, Treadwell, Carter, Heffernan, Timoney, etc etc
I'm not surprised by TImoney being out tbh. I reckon Connors will be back in the squad if/when he gets fit.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
jezzer wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 1:31 pm
Timoney not being there probably surprises me the most. Agree POM, Baird and Prendergast is a bit of a surfeit of 6s.
Stockdale seems sort of a luxury, given we have Lowe, Hansen who play LW and JOB to cover FB.
Loughman is unlucky to be injured at the wrong time.
Faz is very ready to give you a chance, but he's just as ready to banish you to the wilderness if something "better" comes along. Must be tough for Lowry, Hume, Treadwell, Carter, Heffernan, Timoney, etc etc
I'm not surprised by TImoney being out tbh. I reckon Connors will be back in the squad if/when he gets fit.
suisse wrote: ↑January 19th, 2023, 12:25 pm
The decision to select Ross Byrne makes total sense. Lots of talk about Carbery and Cowley playing in multiple positions. I'd much rather we go to the 6N and RWC with 2 recognised out and out fly halves and one utility 10/12/15 than Sexton plus two guys who aren't, including Carbery imo at this level, or who are not yet, specialist 10s.
Justification for Murray is always that he can close out games. Thornley gushing all over OTB studios about this yesterday. The same applies to 10. In a RWC game against SA, winning or losing, I'd much rather have Ross Byrne on fhe e bench than crowley or cafbddyr.
Versatility is useful but it a RWC sense it means 2 things. Cover for injuries and ability to spend planned minutes in a different position.
Your 2nd choice outhalf has to bench in the big games. They don't need to be versatile, they can still get planned minutes in a different position but they don't need it.
A 3rd choice has to cover outhalf but should also do planned time in the smaller games. That can be at outhalf or the other position, but not both at the same time. Pundits sometimes forget that.
If you bring 5 props, only 1 can be fully rested for any game. Your 5th prop can't start in the smaller game(s) and still cover the other side.
If Ross goes to the RWC, he needs to start the smaller game (whether he benches the other games or not) and the other outhalf (than Sexton) needs to start in a different position. Otherwise someone else doesn't get a break.
This is why Carbery's versatility wasn't so relevant last RWC, though injuries didn't help.
Josh is clear ahead, POM is next up. Faz can call up one of Timoney, Kendellen, Hodnett, Connors, Penny as needed and they are probably all pretty close. But if you don't name them in the squad they can play for their provinces.
5 guys competing hard and playing rugby in front of fans or 1 holding tackle bags with the others a little less motivated.
