6 Nations 2023 - Ireland

[Peg Leg]

Timoney not being there probably surprises me the most. Agree POM, Baird and Prendergast is a bit of a surfeit of 6s.

Stockdale seems sort of a luxury, given we have Lowe, Hansen who play LW and JOB to cover FB.

Loughman is unlucky to be injured at the wrong time.

Faz is very ready to give you a chance, but he's just as ready to banish you to the wilderness if something "better" comes along. Must be tough for Lowry, Hume, Treadwell, Carter, Heffernan, Timoney, etc etc

I think Faz is not afraid to back his management team to rejuvenate a player like Stockdale and help him find form, which to my mind is worth the investment.

[jezzer]

Timoney was unlikely to play.

Josh is clear ahead, POM is next up. Faz can call up one of Timoney, Kendellen, Hodnett, Connors, Penny as needed and they are probably all pretty close. But if you don't name them in the squad they can play for their provinces.

5 guys competing hard and playing rugby in front of fans or 1 holding tackle bags with the others a little less motivated.

Agree with all of that.

[desperado]

Only one specialist 7 is a mistake IMO. POM while a great 6 doesn’t really have the attributes you’d want in a 7 for the style Ireland are trying to play, its just not his natural game. If Timoney out of favour I’d have Hodnett /Penny there ahead of Prendergast, too soon for Conors yet. We’ve a rake of 6/8’s but if VDF pulls a hamstring we’re going to be playing a 6/8 as our openside. Think Stewart from Ulster a bit unlucky, he has looked good in a losing cause. Kleyn has been playing good rugby at the moment too. Killer back in is a strange one, don’t think his form has been stellar. The key thing is how are Tadhg’s hamstrings and can he play. We can survive without J10, get by but not prosper to the same extent maybe, if Furlong is not available our chances diminish considerably.

The continued investment in Carbery over the last 18 -24 months when his form didn’t really merit it makes his omission strange, unless they are thinking of two squads and will change it up over the course of the tournament. Maybe it’s a coaching rocket up the proverbial to see how he responds. He has been an automatic choice up to now. Imagine Ben Healy's head is fried this morning. Henshaw for one will come back in once fit I suspect. Stockdale is a weird one, can see the merit of Earls as an elder lemon from a squad perspective, Jacob less so. He is not there on form (neither is Aki but he has great charisma and presence so can see his value to a squad), so you have to wonder why Stockdale is there ahead of players like Haley or Nash who are. Stockdale selection for me is a come to Jesus Jacob, this is your last chance to find your 2018/9 form or you lose your central contract. Worth remembering when he was good he was very good, but at the moment he cant catch a cold so the pressure is on. Delighted for Larmour, he has something no other Irish player has and has had a cr@p time with injury. Osbourne has come a long way in a short time, he has stepped up seamlessly every time so far. Will be watching him with interest.

Hope they keep the development players up, worth looking at the likes of Hodnett, Penny, the Murrays – mandating a visit to the barbers for the younger lad - Salanoa, Patterson, Milne, Stewart. Dangle the carrot and get the young lads motivated.

Makes the Cardiff game a great opportunity for the younger Leinster players with Mike, JJ hopefully and Rhys.

https://westernpeople.ie/2023/01/06/you ... -tomorrow/

I'm sure you could still donate; benefit of getting your wish and helping a worthy cause

https://www.idonate.ie/fundraiser/Darra ... irDonation

[TMC]

https://westernpeople.ie/2023/01/06/you ... -tomorrow/

I'm sure you could still donate; benefit of getting your wish and helping a worthy cause

https://www.idonate.ie/fundraiser/Darra ... irDonation

Done, thanks for the link.

[elephantman]

Are we 100% sure Carbery isn't injured?

We should find out tomorrow when Munster name their team for Toulouse.

[ronk]

Are we 100% sure Carbery isn't injured?

We should find out tomorrow when Munster name their team for Toulouse.

Interesting to see if Rowntree benches him. Crowley is around for this game but will now miss the next one and he probably needs gametime going into Ireland camp.

[R-Dog]

Wonder if the IRFU Policy on Minutes will ensure Healy gets the full 80 for Munster the week before we play Scotland

[Hoofhearted]

Seems to be some annoyance on MF that Jean Kleyn wasn't picked. Which surprised me. I'd have thought he hadn't the hands to play International rugby.

Maybe I'm wrong, are there any second row nerds on here that can enlighten me?

I always saw the man as a sort 6/10 in every game type player. Play hard, push hard in scrums, but give away a few penalties with cheap shots, dropped balls and general silliness.

Not the man for playing the Faz game

[The Doc]

Seems to be some annoyance on MF that Jean Kleyn wasn't picked. Which surprised me. I'd have thought he hadn't the hands to play International rugby.

Maybe I'm wrong, are there any second row nerds on here that can enlighten me?

I always saw the man as a sort 6/10 in every game type player. Play hard, push hard in scrums, but give away a few penalties with cheap shots, dropped balls and general silliness.

Not the man for playing the Faz game

He is someone who has Irish caps because Schmidt wanted a big unit second row for the 2019 World Cup.

It's not 2019, Schmidt isn't manager, there are other options for big units and we have other ways of playing against big teams then pushing harder.

What are they annoyed about other than using up their own playing budget.

Sent from my LE2123 using Tapatalk

[Flash Gordon]

The squad announcement is both cause for celebration and concern from a Leinster perspective. Great that our players are in the squad but the other provinces aren't asking questions which is concerning from an Ireland perspective. There's some of the usual narrative happening from North and South of us about Ireland being Leinster and pro Leinster bias but it's more of the same in terms of lack of contribution for the Ulster and Munster system which should really be called to account by the IRFU. If you look at Ulster this continues down to the Under 20's for example, where they have only 4 players in the squad. If the system were working there'd be more even representation (which is what you want for your national team) but the system in other provinces isn't working. I wonder if their CEOs are being called to explain this poor return to the IRFU.

That aside, it's a very heavy burden on the Leinster system. 20 players in the squad, we are going to struggle to field a team against Cardiff and our players will have gone through the mill and we'll have disproportionate injuries for the business end of the season.

[Dave Cahill]

It doesn't really count as a surprise, but I'm disappointed for Ross Molony who is a real 'glue' player for us

[desperado]

https://westernpeople.ie/2023/01/06/you ... -tomorrow/

I'm sure you could still donate; benefit of getting your wish and helping a worthy cause

https://www.idonate.ie/fundraiser/Darra ... irDonation

Done, thanks for the link.

fair play; it's a great cause.

[desperado]

Seems to be some annoyance on MF that Jean Kleyn wasn't picked. Which surprised me. I'd have thought he hadn't the hands to play International rugby.

Maybe I'm wrong, are there any second row nerds on here that can enlighten me?

I always saw the man as a sort 6/10 in every game type player. Play hard, push hard in scrums, but give away a few penalties with cheap shots, dropped balls and general silliness.

Not the man for playing the Faz game

Kleyn has hands like feet; he's worth at least 1 or 2 dropped passes, or just dropped balls per game. He's a limited player.

[munster#1]

The squad announcement is both cause for celebration and concern from a Leinster perspective. Great that our players are in the squad but the other provinces aren't asking questions which is concerning from an Ireland perspective. There's some of the usual narrative happening from North and South of us about Ireland being Leinster and pro Leinster bias but it's more of the same in terms of lack of contribution for the Ulster and Munster system which should really be called to account by the IRFU. If you look at Ulster this continues down to the Under 20's for example, where they have only 4 players in the squad. If the system were working there'd be more even representation (which is what you want for your national team) but the system in other provinces isn't working. I wonder if their CEOs are being called to explain this poor return to the IRFU.

That aside, it's a very heavy burden on the Leinster system. 20 players in the squad, we are going to struggle to field a team against Cardiff and our players will have gone through the mill and we'll have disproportionate injuries for the business end of the season.

Munster are one of 4 provinces and are providing 1/4 of the squad.
They could definitely do better, and I suspect in the near future we will be seeing more Munster players being selected as the young lads start gaining experience.

The IRFU may well take your advice and look for a better spread of internationals across the 4 provinces.

[naraic]

Are Earls and Stockdale are surprising to anyone else as they are to me?

7 back three players. 1 or 2 unneeded imo. Those two feel like lets pull into the squad and see if you can work like your best in training because you aren't doing it with the provinces.

Also Earls is supposed to be a great presence in a camp.

It's not as big a shock, but I'd add Prendergast to that list as he's really done nothing for Connacht this season. I'd genuinely be terrified to see Stockdale play a game, he looks completely lost for Ulster.

Prendergast has been decent for Connacht. That said I've a feeling that Prendergast (along with Baird and Coombes) have been named in the squad as much for a deeper look at them. The three of them are probably fighting for one real spot in the squad.

Seems to be some annoyance on MF that Jean Kleyn wasn't picked. Which surprised me. I'd have thought he hadn't the hands to play International rugby.

Maybe I'm wrong, are there any second row nerds on here that can enlighten me?

I always saw the man as a sort 6/10 in every game type player. Play hard, push hard in scrums, but give away a few penalties with cheap shots, dropped balls and general silliness.

Not the man for playing the Faz game

Kleyn is pretty much the biggest and most powerful Irish eligible tighthead lock.

There's an argument that Joe McCarthy isn't top 4 Irish locks. He is probably the third biggest Irish tighthead lock (after Kleyn and Edogbo).

If theres a role in the squad for a big unit that mightn't be conventionally the best lock maybe Kleyn should be ahead of McCarthy. That said McCarthy has been in the squad more recently and is partially a development pick.

[Morf]

It doesn't really count as a surprise, but I'm disappointed for Ross Molony who is a real 'glue' player for us

Faz really goes for the player with something extra usually phsycially and apart from pulled back passes at the line/good lineout caller Molony is the Ross Byrne of athleticism of locks.

[ronk]

Seems to be some annoyance on MF that Jean Kleyn wasn't picked. Which surprised me. I'd have thought he hadn't the hands to play International rugby.

Maybe I'm wrong, are there any second row nerds on here that can enlighten me?

I always saw the man as a sort 6/10 in every game type player. Play hard, push hard in scrums, but give away a few penalties with cheap shots, dropped balls and general silliness.

Not the man for playing the Faz game

Kleyn has hands like feet; he's worth at least 1 or 2 dropped passes, or just dropped balls per game. He's a limited player.

Including Kleyn would have been a bit of a shock. Not sure how people thought he was due a call up.

He's not a bad player and there's a lot of value in what he brings, it's just that he's not at all a good fit for the way Ireland want to play.

[yellabelly1961]

The squad announcement is both cause for celebration and concern from a Leinster perspective. Great that our players are in the squad but the other provinces aren't asking questions which is concerning from an Ireland perspective. There's some of the usual narrative happening from North and South of us about Ireland being Leinster and pro Leinster bias but it's more of the same in terms of lack of contribution for the Ulster and Munster system which should really be called to account by the IRFU. If you look at Ulster this continues down to the Under 20's for example, where they have only 4 players in the squad. If the system were working there'd be more even representation (which is what you want for your national team) but the system in other provinces isn't working. I wonder if their CEOs are being called to explain this poor return to the IRFU.

That aside, it's a very heavy burden on the Leinster system. 20 players in the squad, we are going to struggle to field a team against Cardiff and our players will have gone through the mill and we'll have disproportionate injuries for the business end of the season.

Well said, the 6 Nations could cost Leinster a 5th star if the injuries mount up

[MylesNaGapoleen]

Is this right?

Leinster 20
Munster 8
Ulster 5
Connacht 4

our lineup for the cardiff game next week will be interesting. Welsh pack is mostly in the Ospreys squad...who we struggled against in the scrum 2 weeks back (sans Furlong and Porter iirc)

[jezzer]

Is this right?

Leinster 20
Munster 8
Ulster 5
Connacht 4

our lineup for the cardiff game next week will be interesting. Welsh pack is mostly in the Ospreys squad...who we struggled against in the scrum 2 weeks back (sans Furlong and Porter iirc)

If Ulster were in a better headspace and winning games, with their players on form and humming, the Nordies might have had TOT, Treadwell, Timoney, Hume and Lowry all in the squad or knocking on the door.

They've all shown they're thereabouts in terms of talent, so Ulster is now contributing players at the necessary level.

The problem is they're playing like drains right now.

There was a lot of Ulster representation in the last few U20 squads also, with some v handy players, so at the youth level they're developing in ok numbers too.

Munster seem to have finally turned the page on clinging for grim life onto non-performing veteran players. They've put a ton of work into the academy too. Won't be long before Irish squads are a bit more balanced again.