Autumn Internationals 2022 Not Ireland

[Dave Cahill]

Well that little chip over by Perenara(?) didn’t work out

what in the name of baby jeebus and the dancing pixies was that??!?

[Oldschoolsocks]

Well that little chip over by Perenara(?) didn’t work out

what in the name of baby jeebus and the dancing pixies was that??!?

I may have to go back and look at it again, but at first viewing it looked a a lot like shitting the bed…

[Twist]

Lads roughly what time in the match was this Perenara chip you’re talking about?

[cormac]

Lads roughly what time in the match was this Perenara chip you’re talking about?

78th minute approximately

[enby]

Watched the last 20 of Eng v NZ in the Aviva. Big round of boos when Smith kicked it out at FT. The way NZ had folded there was every chance that England might have worked the ball into drop goal or penalty range. Incredibly skilled comeback from England aided and abetted by some woeful NZ kicking and tackling. Youngs steeped that his ridiculous kick on 77 or so was not capitalised on by NZ.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

wrong thread.

[Experimental]

In an alternate reality Smith didnt kick it out, England worked it up the field with all the momentum they had, and Owen Farrell got a last gasp drop goal to cap off his 100th with a famous win! If this was not a once off friendly, then fair enough, but have to agree with Matt Dawson, I was a bit shocked to see them settling for the draw. Looked like Eddie had a word to him straight after about it, Id say it was something along the lines of 'What the f$%k y'do that for mate?'

[riocard911]

When one considers where they had come from - essentially dead in the water with ten minutes to go - after scoring three quick tries to level the match, I can understand the decision to cash in their chips. How NZ could let England in like that is beyond me.

The AB collapse in the last ten mins - all started by 30 to 40 metre Marcus Smith line break - was remarkable to behold. Up until they'd been quite impressive and England absolutely dire. Certainly, when England click they are mega dangerous.

[cormac]

NZ panicked quite badly when down to 14 against Scotland the week before too. In both games they were well on top until the yellow card.

[paddyor]

In an alternate reality Smith didnt kick it out, England worked it up the field with all the momentum they had, and Owen Farrell got a last gasp drop goal to cap off his 100th with a famous win! If this was not a once off friendly, then fair enough, but have to agree with Matt Dawson, I was a bit shocked to see them settling for the draw. Looked like Eddie had a word to him straight after about it, Id say it was something along the lines of 'What the f$%k y'do that for mate?'

Smith was effectively the last man back when he recieved it.

https://twitter.com/thedeadballarea/sta ... gr%5Etweet

I think they settled before the ball was kicked tbh. And tbf, coming back from 19 down to lose against 14 that's actually fair enough.

[paddyor]

When one considers where they had come from - essentially dead in the water with ten minutes to go - after scoring three quick tries to level the match, I can understand the decision to cash in their chips. How NZ could let England in like that is beyond me.

The AB collapse in the last ten mins - all started by 30 to 40 metre Marcus Smith line break - was remarkable to behold. Up until they'd been quite impressive and England absolutely dire. Certainly, when England click they are mega dangerous.

This

[riocard911]

HT: ENG 3-14 RSA. Boks seem to have a better idea of what they're trying to do and - surprise! - it's not just bosh. England at sixes and sevens muddling around. Not a great advertisement for Test rugby.

[riocard911]

60 mins. ENG 6-27 RSA. Bok 18 gets red carded for a shoulder-charge to Cowan-Dickie's head.

[riocard911]

FT: ENG 13-27 RSA. England totally flat; Eddie Jones' huff and puff doesn't seem to work anymore......

[enby]

Congratulations are due to Wales for backing up last week's defeat with an extraordinary capitulation from 34-13 all the way to 34-39. All done at home against an Oz 2nd XV. Very enjoyable

[Twist]

No tweets from Rassie about the forward pass in the build up to their try in the first half? Im sure he’s working on it as we speak

[riocard911]

No tweets from Rassie about the forward pass in the build up to their try in the first half? Im sure he’s working on it as we speak

Nah; too busy munching Mikados with the WR blazers, I reckon....

[hugonaut]

Really interesting to read articles about England's poor Autumn series, and particularly the reactions to it from different commentators, ex-players and journalists.

It seems to me that Eddie Jones has convinced enough people [and enough of the right people] that:
a] nothing really matters except a competition that happens once every four years; and
b] that he is doing a job that involves his team losing a lot of games and generally under-performing on the basis that what he is doing now will prepare them better for that competition.

I don't see his job as being any different than any other test coach's job: win today, win tomorrow. I think that there is a pretty noticeable degree of 'board capture' going on.

His argument is that none of this stuff actually matters, that he finished 5th in 2018 Six Nations and then turned things around in 2019 Six Nations [finishing second] and had a really good RWC19 – which he did. The RFU brass are putting a lot of faith in history – he did a particular thing before, he can do a similar thing in significantly different circumstances again.

However, England actually won three of their four AIs in November 2018, lost their other one by a point, and finished with a resounding [19pt] win.
• ENG 12 - 11 SA
• ENG 15 - 16 NZ
• ENG 35 - 15 JPN
• ENG 37 - 18 AUS

This time out they lost two, drew one and won one, and finished with a resounding [14pt] loss.
• ENG 29 - 30 ARG
• ENG 52 - 13 JPN
• ENG 25 - 25 NZ
• ENG 13 - 27 SA

[hugonaut]

He has also lined up his preferred team much earlier this time around, with eight players featuring in the same position in each of their three test matches against Rugby Championship sides:

FB: Steward
OC: Tuilagi
IC: Farrell
OH: Smith
No8: Billy Vunipola
OS: Tom Curry
L: Hill
THP: Sinckler

Itoje also played in all three, but he played the first match against Argentina [and the second match against Japan] at blindside. That didn't really pan out, so he was back at lock for the last two games. He's really a ninth, but I'm trying to hold to a strict standard. Jonny May also started three [missing the Argentina game at the start with a dislocated elbow], so he's very close/there-or-thereabouts as a tenth.

If Lawes returns from his long-term concussion issue, he will slot straight back in at blindside. He's a Jones favourite, and in fairness to him, an excellent player who is bloody hard to play against. The two hookers [George and Cowan Dickie] have been involved for the last six years. Jones wanted to mix up his front row to give himself a 'bomb-squad' against SA by using Mako and George from the off [rather than Genge and Cowan-Dickie, who had started the Arg & NZ tests referred to earlier] and it back-fired. Van Portfliet was given three starts and has found test rugby to be harder than it looked.

Jones has given a hell of a lot of reasons/excuses why he's losing games, most of them about finding a new revolutionary style. However, he's using most of the same players as he did four years ago.

[hugonaut]

If he's trying [and failing] to instil a new gameplan, what's the hold-up? He has been working with a large number of the same players for five or six or seven years. The change in personnel has been slight.

For example, Jones capped Genge, Cowan Dickie, Sinckler and Itoje as far back as 2016, his first year in charge [incidentally, Itoje and Cowan-Dickie were both in Lancaster's 50-man RWC15 training squad: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... -lancaster ]. He capped Tom Curry in the summer of 2017, more than five years ago.

Jamie George, Mako and Billy Vunipola, and Courtney Lawes were in the RWC2015 World Cup squad proper, as were Youngs, Farrell, Slade, May, Nowell [and Anthony Watson].

Manu Tuilagi only played in two internationals [as a sub in March 2016 and November 2018] in the four year period 2015-18 due to injury. He had already played 26 test matches by June 2014, at which stage he had just turned 23, and had already played in RWC11.

The headline changes are below:
George Ford out < > Marcus Smith in [2021]
Elliott Daly out < > Freddie Steward in [2021]
George Kruis out < > Jonny Hill in [2020]

Jones has done a lot in rugby, but he talks an awful lot and he likes to wind people up. He's hard to like.

Some of his innovations at the start of 2019 – having a lot of good kickers in his backline and not being afraid to kick being one of them - were really interesting and effective, but a big portion of it was having Billy Vunipola and Manu in the team to get gainline on demand. Billy V was close to the best player in the world in 2019, and Tuilagi is a one-off. Having Jonny May turn in a 2018 Stockdale-esque season [he scored 9 test tries in 2019] was a big plus too.

Maybe he can get Arundell in the team and have him get some excitement in the stadium, but that's putting a player in the team, not some tactical renaissance.