Autumn Internationals 2022 Not Ireland

[Ruckedtobits]

Good posts @ hugonaut. Don't send them on to the RFU. I'm much happier with Jones bringing Ingerland to Aviva than Borthwich.

[riocard911]

Playing for one's coach, believing in him or her, is a huge deal in terms of motivation, morale etc. Looks to me like England's players no longer believe in Eddie.

[paddyor]

Great post Hugo. IMO Tuilagi and Vunipola X2 look past their best which isn't to say they're bad just not as good as they once were. Maybe they can raise their game for the RWC or recapture some of the form that made them Lions but thats hope rather than a plan.

He's tinkered a lot with selections in the 2nd and back row; Itoje and Coles as the 5.5; Simmonds, Dombrant and then back to Vunipola at 8 etc. The big miss is not solving the England centres problem9which predates him tbf). Ireland have had 3 +1 centres for about 5 years now whereas England have seemed to base their planning around is Tuilagi fit? Then you have to squeeze Farrell in at 12 because he's not enough of a running threat at 10. Now maybe he has solved it and it's Farrell, Tuilagi, Porter +1. But I can see changes before the RWC comes around.

[paddyor]

The Blazers have cancelled the christmas drinks( ) and Jones fact finding mission to France has been binned in the same way as Pivacs


Also losing a coach hired by the IRFU to improve culture in a matter of weeks.

https://archive.ph/kVeuN

[The Doc]

If he's trying [and failing] to instil a new gameplan, what's the hold-up? He has been working with a large number of the same players for five or six or seven years. The change in personnel has been slight.

For example, Jones capped Genge, Cowan Dickie, Sinckler and Itoje as far back as 2016, his first year in charge [incidentally, Itoje and Cowan-Dickie were both in Lancaster's 50-man RWC15 training squad: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... -lancaster ]. He capped Tom Curry in the summer of 2017, more than five years ago.

Jamie George, Mako and Billy Vunipola, and Courtney Lawes were in the RWC2015 World Cup squad proper, as were Youngs, Farrell, Slade, May, Nowell [and Anthony Watson].

Manu Tuilagi only played in two internationals [as a sub in March 2016 and November 2018] in the four year period 2015-18 due to injury. He had already played 26 test matches by June 2014, at which stage he had just turned 23, and had already played in RWC11.

The headline changes are below:
George Ford out < > Marcus Smith in [2021]
Elliott Daly out < > Freddie Steward in [2021]
George Kruis out < > Jonny Hill in [2020]

Jones has done a lot in rugby, but he talks an awful lot and he likes to wind people up. He's hard to like.

Some of his innovations at the start of 2019 – having a lot of good kickers in his backline and not being afraid to kick being one of them - were really interesting and effective, but a big portion of it was having Billy Vunipola and Manu in the team to get gainline on demand. Billy V was close to the best player in the world in 2019, and Tuilagi is a one-off. Having Jonny May turn in a 2018 Stockdale-esque season [he scored 9 test tries in 2019] was a big plus too.

Maybe he can get Arundell in the team and have him get some excitement in the stadium, but that's putting a player in the team, not some tactical renaissance.

Are they not also losing some of their high potential players to France - I'll have to dig up the stories but pretty sure a back row and a back three have signed recently

[riocard911]

The Blazers have cancelled the christmas drinks( ) and Jones fact finding mission to France has been binned in the same way as Pivacs


Also losing a coach hired by the IRFU to improve culture in a matter of weeks.

https://archive.ph/kVeuN

Aye, something is rotten in the state of Denmark. Even their morale-boosting half-time on pitch "team talk" vs the Boks was an embarrassment. They just came together on the sideline, no one had anything to say and so they sheepishly headed for the dressing room, with Faz óg leading the way.

[Ruckedtobits]

Fairly easy for Conor O'Shea to have a conversation with RO'G, which could include whether CO'S would want it known that the conversation had taken place. This could, or would, influence the atmosphere when RFU 'heavies', probably including CO'S met with Jones.

Everybody has different Agendas when these conversations take place.

[paddyor]

Gatland to England is the latest rumour....

[domhnallj]

Gatland to England is the latest rumour....

Indo reporting that he has replaced Pivac at Wales.

[ronk]

Gatland to England is the latest rumour....

Indo reporting that he has replaced Pivac at Wales.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/in ... 96041.html

5 year contract.

[riocard911]

Gatland to England is the latest rumour....

Indo reporting that he has replaced Pivac at Wales.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/in ... 96041.html

5 year contract.

Which immediately brings "Second Time Around" by Shalamar with the wonderful Jody Watley to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr9B4UEOFUw

From back in the day......

[paddyor]

Gatland to England is the latest rumour....

Indo reporting that he has replaced Pivac at Wales.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/in ... 96041.html

5 year contract.

5 years??? I suppose there's significant professional risk for him in this, need to make it worth his while and give him a chance at redemption should 11 months prove too short a period to turn things around. It would be good thing if he managed to get them to a better place for a RWC as it would put an end to the "building for the RWC" b*%&!x

[naraic]

There seems to be contradictory reports of the length of Gatland's contract.

I've heard 1 year with an option of 4, 5 years and 1 year head coach 4 years something else.

[ronk]

He's probably looking at another run at the Lions.

[paddyor]

There seems to be contradictory reports of the length of Gatland's contract.

I've heard 1 year with an option of 4, 5 years and 1 year head coach 4 years something else.

Ah right. Maybe keep him around to reform the level below Welsh team.

[riocard911]

Eddie to be shown the door and Steve Borthwick to take over with immediate effect, according to the Daily Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... Tests.html

[hugonaut]

Really surprised that England are going to sack Jones. The time to sack him was clearly after Six Nations 2021, when England finished fifth, ahead only of Italy.

He had all the same bad habits that he has now, but sacking him then would have given his successor 25/26 tests to prepare for RWC23, rather than 8/9 tests.

Summer 2021 development games against USA and Canada [2 tests];
Autumn 2021 tests against Tonga, Australia and South Africa [3 tests];
Spring 2022 Six Nations [5 tests];
Summer 2020 tour of Australia [3 tests];
Autumn 2022 tests against Argentina, Japan, New Zealand and South Africa [4 tests];
Spring 2023 Six Nations [5 tests];
Summer 2024 test matches [3/4 tests]

[dropkick]

Welsh rugby is like a whodunit film. Every day fans blame a different area of the welsh game. It might be Pivac, the WRU, the regions, the amateur clubs, the attack coach etc. At least they've quietened down on blaming the Irish.


This might be a case of them not seeing the wood for the trees. Looking in from the outside I'd say there is just a lack of interest in rugby overall. They have a lot of rugby clubs but numbers are dwindling. They have 2 successful soccer clubs to deal with too which shouldn't be underestimated.

Really surprised that England are going to sack Jones. The time to sack him was clearly after Six Nations 2021, when England finished fifth, ahead only of Italy.

He had all the same bad habits that he has now, but sacking him then would have given his successor 25/26 tests to prepare for RWC23, rather than 8/9 tests.

Summer 2021 development games against USA and Canada [2 tests];
Autumn 2021 tests against Tonga, Australia and South Africa [3 tests];
Spring 2022 Six Nations [5 tests];
Summer 2020 tour of Australia [3 tests];
Autumn 2022 tests against Argentina, Japan, New Zealand and South Africa [4 tests];
Spring 2023 Six Nations [5 tests];
Summer 2024 test matches [3/4 tests]

I'd say they don't want to but public pressure has grown too much. Its Jones' own fault for putting all his eggs in the world cup basket.

[Ruckedtobits]

The English media have always had the ultimate sanction on the head man / woman for their National field sports, football, rugby, cricket. Once they lose the media, it is only a matter of time.

Jones' attitude to players, backroom, etc. has always been too dismissive, he has never accepted the modern outlook that people must be treated with respect for their contributions and personalities. He lacks, or is dismissive of empathy. 'My way or the high way' is an outmoded brand image. Look at Southgate.

[hugonaut]

England have won four of their last ten Six Nations games:
2021: 2/5 with a -9 points difference
2022: 2/5 with a +5 points difference.

Ireland haven't had a Six Nations as bad as either since 2013 [when we sacked Declan Kidney] and before that 2008 [when we sacked Eddie O'Sullivan].

Jones put credit in the bank with good results in his first world cup cycle [2016-2019], but his results since then have ordinary enough and his manner and behaviour have burnt through the rest of it.

I think Eddie Jones is actually an exceptional coach, a brilliant coach even, in a lot of aspects of the game. More often than not though his employments end up with him figuratively setting the bus on fire and driving it towards the nearest cliff [Australia, Reds, Saracens, now England]. He's a sh*t man-manager and wants to needle and pick fights with everyone. He can't help himself. It's a deeply set part of his personality and he doesn't want to change.

He'll go on to his next job thinking that he was always right and that too many of his players and his assistant coaches were/are too soft and didn't have his hard-headedness or competitive energy. You know it and I know it. He is [in my opinion] always going to miss the point that management is only good management if it works. By far the most important thing about management, not leadership, is that it is effective. Leadership can be based on principles and example, management has to be pragmatic and flexible.

There are literally countless different ways of managing staff: sometimes it has to be the hard word, the hurry-up, and other times it has to be listening and encouragement. Nobody gets it right all the time. Eddie Jones gets it wrong more often than he gets it right.

He has run through assistant coaches at a ridiculous rate – I don't know if they have signed NDAs or if they realise themselves that there is no upside to getting into a post-role p*ssing match. I've heard [off the record and indirectly, but through somebody who was in a position to know] that he was an absolute f*cker to work under.