Ireland A vs New Zealand XV Friday 4th November

[Morf]

TJ Perenara has also been a favourite of mine for a long, long time, so it was another treat to see him out there between the hedges.

I always find it difficult to like Perenara when I notice the amount of dissent he gives refs (his voice travels well to refs/stadium mics) and rarely even gets warned for. Dane Coles would have an appropriate description for him.

After him giving a shout out - post- or pre-match on Friday in his NZ XV kit in the RDS dressing room - of support for Belvo in this year's SC, he's top of my favourite ABs list!!!

Some things are far more important in the grand scheme of things!

[Flash Gordon]

This narrative that a group of naïve up-and-comers got a lesson from the grizzled vets is a bit hard to swallow. There were plenty of caps in the Irish squad, just about all of them have been in Irish camps.

They just weren't physically at the races and that's the whole story there. I don't think there are any massive conclusions to be made about individual players. But collectively there was a preparation and attitude deficit that meant they got their ässes and their pride handed to them.

I agree with you on that but there was a bit more than that in my view. The skills gap between watching Leinster and Ireland was huge. Mistimed passes, poorly thrown passes, tackle technique, depth of delivery on passing. Good that we are learning this now rather than at the tournament so Faz and the team know what to work on. On the plus side, Deegan and Moore looked really good when they came on. Because of embarrasment of riches in the back row we sometimes forget just how good Max is.

[backrower8]

This narrative that a group of naïve up-and-comers got a lesson from the grizzled vets is a bit hard to swallow. There were plenty of caps in the Irish squad, just about all of them have been in Irish camps.

They just weren't physically at the races and that's the whole story there. I don't think there are any massive conclusions to be made about individual players. But collectively there was a preparation and attitude deficit that meant they got their ässes and their pride handed to them.

I agree with the general views on how players went on Friday. However I think that our coaching team may have been responsible for a larger share of the blame than people are saying. I am calling it a 20-30% share for biting off more than they could chew.

On the one hand the NZL team, largely a youngish crew of 24 year olds (leaving aside the 3 senior internationals) were 100% dialled-in, focused and ruthless from start to finish. Their Captain was challenging the referee on decisions all the way to the 77th minute despite a huge lead - ruthless.

Whereas we looked like a team that were thrown together and had minimal attention from management focused on the Aviva 24 hours later. This is how I explained the gulf in performance to myself anyway - along with misgivings about certain players on the night.

Loughman (surely never going to be anything other than a stop-gap), O'Toole, Prendergast, Osborne, Stockers, Deegan, Crowley and Blade did well imo.

Molony was a late call up for Baird and had not been in the squad all week - how much prep time did he get? Very litle I suspect. But he is not RWC material.

Coombes, Timoney and Heffernan were found out. Maybe Casey too. I certainly didn't see any leadership from him. Coombes need to work on his game. Heffernan and Timioney need to be leap-frogged by Stewart, McKee, etc at Hooker and Connors, Penny and Hodnett at open-side.

Crowley is the dark horse for RWC (Because he doesn't have Frawley's recurring injury profile). Bench selection against Fiji is likely.

[hugonaut]

Coombes, Timoney and Heffernan were found out. Maybe Casey too. I certainly didn't see any leadership from him. Coombes need to work on his game. Heffernan and Timioney need to be leap-frogged by Stewart, McKee, etc at Hooker and Connors, Penny and Hodnett at open-side.

Crowley is the dark horse for RWC (Because he doesn't have Frawley's recurring injury profile). Bench selection against Fiji is likely.

I don't know about 'found out' as a definitive judgment, but certainly they showed holes in their respective games.

Coombes is normally a hard player to play against and an effective, hard-working player. I was surprised that he didn't play better and do more. His role is to get over the gainline and get his hands free, it's hard to do but not hard to explain. I don't think that you can wholly blame gameplanning or unfamiliarity with his team-mates for his under-performance. He has been stuck on two caps for sixteen months, and in that time we have played twelve tests. I'd be very interested to know what the coaching staff have to say about him behind closed doors, because he has made basically no progress in terms of his place in the squad. I would have thought that he was a guy they would be looking to promote.

Timoney was tragic in that game. He genuinely looked like he had never played openside before. It's telling that Scott Penny wasn't included in the matchday 23 for the NZ XV game and has been promoted to the full Irish squad on the back of literally not doing anything at the weekend.

The scrum-half selections I just don't agree with. I get what they're trying to do, I don't think it's working or is going to work. Just pick Cooney. He's like McCloskey, an international calibre player without an international career. To me it makes sense to bring him in as the Conor Murray replacement, i.e. an experienced reliever.

[jezzer]

As was said before, I don't think that game is a great barometer for making judgements on any individual player/s. I just think they were miles off the pitch of the game from the kickoff and it never got any better.

Some guys maybe minding themselves with hopes for a Fiji call up, some guys drinking the world no.1 Koolaid and a coaching ticket prepping two teams simultaneously for two totally different oppositions where the obvious focus will be on SA.

Just a gulf between the two teams in terms of focus.

[dropkick]

We were well beaten by the Maori in the first match during the summer but won the second fairly convincingly.


I had a look at the age profile of the squad that played SA. It might shed some light on Farrell's thinking.


Of the 23 man squad 11 were 30 years old or older. The 3 youngest were 24 (Hansen, Doris, Sheehan).
3 x 24
2 x 25
3 x 26
3 x 27
0 x 28
1 x 29
5 x 30
1 x 31
1 x 32
2 x 33
0 x 34
1 x 35
1 x 37

Some missing like Aki, Henshaw, Henderson, Lowe, Conway, Kelleher etc are mostly in the prime of their careers.


I think Farrell and his coaching team like mature, solid players over young talented players. Or another way of putting it, consistency over talent ceiling. A young talent having an off day can happen (Willimse). Older players are less likely to suffer dips in form or a meltdown during a match.


Farrell and his coavhes seem to be very keen on giving young players opportunities to play in different environments. The Maori matches, emerging ireland and now NZ 15. After that poor match Farrell wasn't too downbeat and it's noticable how many times he and the players mentioned learnings.


The danger with this method is if they get the balance wrong. There comes a time when the legs start to go and if you hang onto too many for too long then you might be asking for trouble. At the moment they seem to have the balance spot on.

[ronk]

We were well beaten by the Maori in the first match during the summer but won the second fairly convincingly.


I had a look at the age profile of the squad that played SA. It might shed some light on Farrell's thinking.


Of the 23 man squad 11 were 30 years old or older. The 3 youngest were 24 (Hansen, Doris, Sheehan).
3 x 24
2 x 25
3 x 26
3 x 27
0 x 28
1 x 29
5 x 30
1 x 31
1 x 32
2 x 33
0 x 34
1 x 35
1 x 37

Some missing like Aki, Henshaw, Henderson, Lowe, Conway, Kelleher etc are mostly in the prime of their careers.


I think Farrell and his coaching team like mature, solid players over young talented players. Or another way of putting it, consistency over talent ceiling. A young talent having an off day can happen (Willimse). Older players are less likely to suffer dips in form or a meltdown during a match.


Farrell and his coavhes seem to be very keen on giving young players opportunities to play in different environments. The Maori matches, emerging ireland and now NZ 15. After that poor match Farrell wasn't too downbeat and it's noticable how many times he and the players mentioned learnings.


The danger with this method is if they get the balance wrong. There comes a time when the legs start to go and if you hang onto too many for too long then you might be asking for trouble. At the moment they seem to have the balance spot on.

What's notable about that that is that there are 11 players 27 or younger, 11 30 or older and only 1 player in the 28-29 mark.

I don't think Faz is picking the match day team on age at all. I'm not sure of one selection where it was a factor. Wider squad Faz has been fairly strict about picking younger players with potential over good clubmen who may not be international standard. He's entirely happy to pick the younger player who's behind the guy in his prime for his province, as long as he doesn't have to pick him for the big game. There are lots of examples of that. Latest is picking Milne and leaving Ed Byrne behind, which would be baffling if it was a straight selection.