Emerging Ireland to tour SA

[Keith]

That pretty much illustrates how pointless this tour is. That was an embarrassing result for whomever thought this tour was a good idea. Baloucoune, Doak, McCann, Izuchuckwu and Deegan should all have been going hell for leather in the huge interpro in Belfast tonight rather than playing an exhibition match against a cobbled together team in SA. It wasn't even the Griquas first XV for goodness sake. The idea that we would learn something about some fringe players has been blown out of the water. No one can say we learned more from that game about those players abilities than we would have learned watching him go up against a team of full fat Irish (and B&I) internationals.

I haven’t watched it yet so can’t comment on the quality of the game but why are you only looking at it from that one angle? It could be useful in terms of getting players to learn systems and for the coaches to know more about them. Might even be something simple as someone they have marked as a World Cup bolter turns up late to a couple of meetings or has two beers on a night when they’re allowed one and they scratch their name off the list. There are certainly good reasons to be against the tour but it’s far from pointless.

Why do players who we know will not be in the world Cup squad need to learn the systems? For the players that might make the squad, Why not just have the Emerging Ireland side play against the provincial A teams, instead of dragging them to SA to play 2nd string currie Cup sides, which is a very low standard in terms of pro rugby.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

That pretty much illustrates how pointless this tour is. That was an embarrassing result for whomever thought this tour was a good idea. Baloucoune, Doak, McCann, Izuchuckwu and Deegan should all have been going hell for leather in the huge interpro in Belfast tonight rather than playing an exhibition match against a cobbled together team in SA. It wasn't even the Griquas first XV for goodness sake. The idea that we would learn something about some fringe players has been blown out of the water. No one can say we learned more from that game about those players abilities than we would have learned watching him go up against a team of full fat Irish (and B&I) internationals.

I haven’t watched it yet so can’t comment on the quality of the game but why are you only looking at it from that one angle? It could be useful in terms of getting players to learn systems and for the coaches to know more about them. Might even be something simple as someone they have marked as a World Cup bolter turns up late to a couple of meetings or has two beers on a night when they’re allowed one and they scratch their name off the list. There are certainly good reasons to be against the tour but it’s far from pointless.

Why do players who we know will not be in the world Cup squad need to learn the systems? For the players that might make the squad, Why not just have the Emerging Ireland side play against the provincial A teams, instead of dragging them to SA to play 2nd string currie Cup sides, which is a very low standard in terms of pro rugby.

Some of them could be in the squad. The coaches obviously think that seeing the players on tour and in a different environment is a good thing, surely you can see the logic there even if you don't agree with it? Ireland A (which presumably will have a few of these lads playing) are also playing a New Zealand XV so there will be better opposition for them.

As I said, plenty of reasons to be against the tour but it's definitely not pointless.

[Keith]

I haven’t watched it yet so can’t comment on the quality of the game but why are you only looking at it from that one angle? It could be useful in terms of getting players to learn systems and for the coaches to know more about them. Might even be something simple as someone they have marked as a World Cup bolter turns up late to a couple of meetings or has two beers on a night when they’re allowed one and they scratch their name off the list. There are certainly good reasons to be against the tour but it’s far from pointless.

Why do players who we know will not be in the world Cup squad need to learn the systems? For the players that might make the squad, Why not just have the Emerging Ireland side play against the provincial A teams, instead of dragging them to SA to play 2nd string currie Cup sides, which is a very low standard in terms of pro rugby.

Some of them could be in the squad. The coaches obviously think that seeing the players on tour and in a different environment is a good thing, surely you can see the logic there even if you don't agree with it? Ireland A (which presumably will have a few of these lads playing) are also playing a New Zealand XV so there will be better opposition for them.

As I said, plenty of reasons to be against the tour but it's definitely not pointless.

Certainly not pointless, but the standard of opposition isn't good enough to gauge anything from the games. Also seeing the effects this has had on the Ulster squad is a major negative.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Certainly not pointless, but the standard of opposition isn't good enough to gauge anything from the games. Also seeing the effects this has had on the Ulster squad is a major negative.

Do you not think the coaches would have factored in the quality of the opposition when planning the tour? There are obviously reasons why they think it's worth it.

Time will tell if it was worth it or not but I really don't see how anyone could be so dismissive of any potential positives. IMO the biggest argument against it is the disruption to the league and that will still be a valid complaint if three of the lads on tour end up winning us the World Cup, but to just ignore that the coaches will have valid reasons for going ahead with it seems wrong to me.

[Keith]

Certainly not pointless, but the standard of opposition isn't good enough to gauge anything from the games. Also seeing the effects this has had on the Ulster squad is a major negative.

Do you not think the coaches would have factored in the quality of the opposition when planning the tour? There are obviously reasons why they think it's worth it.

Time will tell if it was worth it or not but I really don't see how anyone could be so dismissive of any potential positives. IMO the biggest argument against it is the disruption to the league and that will still be a valid complaint if three of the lads on tour end up winning us the World Cup, but to just ignore that the coaches will have valid reasons for going ahead with it seems wrong to me.

It is hard to question the coaches as they've done so well so far and I'm sure the coaches have good reasons... or maybe they are panicking about the depth in certain positions and these games are trying to address that

[Oldschool]

Another way of looking at this tour just as in the games against the Maoris who are or will be the winners and losers.
In terms of the players, in particular.
In terms of the provinces.

[Oldschool]

That pretty much illustrates how pointless this tour is. That was an embarrassing result for whomever thought this tour was a good idea. Baloucoune, Doak, McCann, Izuchuckwu and Deegan should all have been going hell for leather in the huge interpro in Belfast tonight rather than playing an exhibition match against a cobbled together team in SA. It wasn't even the Griquas first XV for goodness sake. The idea that we would learn something about some fringe players has been blown out of the water. No one can say we learned more from that game about those players abilities than we would have learned watching him go up against a team of full fat Irish (and B&I) internationals.

I haven’t watched it yet so can’t comment on the quality of the game but why are you only looking at it from that one angle? It could be useful in terms of getting players to learn systems and for the coaches to know more about them. Might even be something simple as someone they have marked as a World Cup bolter turns up late to a couple of meetings or has two beers on a night when they’re allowed one and they scratch their name off the list. There are certainly good reasons to be against the tour but it’s far from pointless.

Why do players who we know will not be in the world Cup squad need to learn the systems? For the players that might make the squad, Why not just have the Emerging Ireland side play against the provincial A teams, instead of dragging them to SA to play 2nd string currie Cup sides, which is a very low standard in terms of pro rugby.

Long range forecast, at least two or three nailed on 23ers will not even make the RWC23 squad.
That's why we need tours like this.

[neill_m]

From 42 dot ie website. Game 4pm Irish Time / 5pm local time.

What can Emerging Ireland expect from the Pumas tomorrow?

THE NELSPRUIT-BASED SIDE ARE THE REIGNING CURRIE CUP CHAMPIONS BUT HAVE A NEW-LOOK TEAM.

THE DEFENDING CURRIE Cup champions, the Pumas, named the fly-half Tinus de Beer as their captain for Wednesday’s match against Emerging Ireland at the Toyota Stadium in Bloemfontein. The Nelspruit-based Pumas will be playing in the tournament for the first time, however, they are not in the running for the prize money that has been allocated for each game. The Pumas have a new-look to their side as seven of their Currie Cup winners have moved on and their new recruits will only report for duty at the team from 1 November. The Pumas have a lot of pace in the back three with Devon Williams, Jade Stiglingh and Etienne Taljaard, while De Beer and Chriswill September form a settled and experienced halfback combination.

André Fouché starts his first full season at the back of the scrum for the Pumas following two outstanding seasons in the Varsity Cup for the North-West University Eagles, while Kwanda Dimaza and Jaco Labuschagne complete the loose-trio. Ig Prinsloo, Eduan Swart, and Corné Fourie pack down for what is a formidable front-row and they certainly have the ability to provide a solid scrum for the Pumas. The coach, Jimmy Stonehouse, has done well to select a strong team with a lot of flair and they will no doubt pose a threat to Emerging Ireland on counter-attack. This is a team whose defensive ability is often understated and it’s not particularly easy to score points against them.

De Beer, who is playing for the Pumas for a second season, said they are eager to go and want to play a good and attractive game. “We have put our Currie Cup success earlier in the year behind us,” said de Beer. “We enjoyed everything that goes with being called the champions thoroughly, but the new season is starting from now and that’s where the focus will be. “We have been training well and the boys are just amped to get back out on the park to see where we are as a team. We want to see how well we play together and turn everything that we’ve worked on in the preseason into magic moments. “The aim is to attempt to score some nice tries and just play attractive and nice rugby. We are really looking forward to the opportunity.”

The Pumas certainly punch well about their weight in South African domestic rugby and over the past few seasons have been a thorn in the side of many of the big teams. Given the slightest sniff, the Lowvelders have the ability to punish their opponents, regardless of who they play against.
An interesting fact about the Pumas is that they wear two different jerseys in their matches.

PUMAS: 15. Devon Williams; 14. Jade Stiglingh, 13. Sebastiaan de Klerk, 12. Wiaan van Niekerk, 11. Etienne Taljaard; 10. Tinus de Beer (captain), 9. Chriswill September; 1. Corné Fourie, 2. Eduan Swart, 3. Ig Prinsloo; 4. Malembe Mpofu, 5. Shane Kirkwood; 6. Jaco Labuschagne, 7. Kwanda Dimaza, 8. André Fouché.

Replacements: 16. Llewellyn Classen, 17. Etienne Janeke, 18. Simon Raw, 19. PJ Jacobs, 20. Anele Lungisa, 21. Khwezi Mafu, 22. Franna Kleinhans, 23. Givan Snyman, 24. Lucky Dlepu, 25. Gene Willemse, 26. Ali Mgijima, 27. Diego Apollis, 28. Lundi Msenge.

[riocard911]

Anyone know why the Pumas "are not in the running for the prize money that has been allocated for each game"? Or was it explained in the article and I managed to missed it?

[neill_m]

Anyone know why the Pumas "are not in the running for the prize money that has been allocated for each game"? Or was it explained in the article and I managed to missed it?

You get 250,000 Rand (14,000 Euro approx) I think from Toyota for beating the Cheetahs - Cheetahs beat the Bulls, playing Emerging Ireland, USA A and Griquas.

[neill_m]

EMERGING IRELAND V AIRLINK PUMAS:
Toyota Stadium, Bloemfontein, Wednesday 5th October, 2022, KO 4.00pm (Irish time) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzOQPKnvoZA

15. Chay Mullins (Connacht/IQ Rugby)
14. Ethan McIlroy (Ulster/Ballynahinch)
13. Antoine Frisch (Munster)
12. Cathal Forde (Connacht/Corinthians)
11. Andrew Smith (Leinster/Clontarf)
10. Jake Flannery (Ulster/Ballynahinch)
9. Michael McDonald (Ulster)
1. Callum Reid (Ulster/Banbridge)
2. Diarmuid Barron (Munster/Garryowen)
3. Roman Salonoa (Munster/Shannon)
4. Cormac Izuchukwu (Ulster/Ballynahinch)
5. Brian Deeny (Leinster/Clontarf)
6. Cian Prendergast (Connacht)(captain)
7. John Hodnett (Munster/UCC)
8. James Culhane (Leinster/UCD)

Replacements:
16. Dylan Tierney-Martin (Connacht/Corinthians)
17. Josh Wycherley (Munster/Young Munster)
18. Sam Illo (Connacht/Buccaneers)
19. Tom Ahern (Munster/Shannon)
20. David McCann (Ulster/Banbridge)
21. Ben Murphy (Leinster/Clontarf)
22. Jack Crowley (Munster/Cork Constitution)
23. Shane Daly (Munster/Cork Constitution)

[ronk]

Interesting. They've both been sparing with the Leinster players and gone way down the depth chart.

I also see at least as many ex-Leinster players as Leinster players.

Some exciting players and the bench looks relatively strong. I imagine they'll try not to use a few of them to much with the fixtures so close together.

[cormac]

Will be interested to see how Andrew Smith has developed. He looked a good bit out of his depth in his two appearances for Leinster a couple of seasons ago. We could do with a couple of the young back 3 academy players coming good.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Will be interested to see how Andrew Smith has developed. He looked a good bit out of his depth in his two appearances for Leinster a couple of seasons ago. We could do with a couple of the young back 3 academy players coming good.

I think we're so thin back there that we need to make a mid season signing. If he hasn't been snapped up already then I'd be trying to get Melani Nanai until the end of the season.

[wixfjord]

EMERGING IRELAND V AIRLINK PUMAS:
Toyota Stadium, Bloemfontein, Wednesday 5th October, 2022, KO 4.00pm (Irish time) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzOQPKnvoZA

15. Chay Mullins (Connacht/IQ Rugby)
14. Ethan McIlroy (Ulster/Ballynahinch)
13. Antoine Frisch (Munster)
12. Cathal Forde (Connacht/Corinthians)
11. Andrew Smith (Leinster/Clontarf)
10. Jake Flannery (Ulster/Ballynahinch)
9. Michael McDonald (Ulster)
1. Callum Reid (Ulster/Banbridge)
2. Diarmuid Barron (Munster/Garryowen)
3. Roman Salonoa (Munster/Shannon)
4. Cormac Izuchukwu (Ulster/Ballynahinch)
5. Brian Deeny (Leinster/Clontarf)
6. Cian Prendergast (Connacht)(captain)
7. John Hodnett (Munster/UCC)
8. James Culhane (Leinster/UCD)

Replacements:
16. Dylan Tierney-Martin (Connacht/Corinthians)
17. Josh Wycherley (Munster/Young Munster)
18. Sam Illo (Connacht/Buccaneers)
19. Tom Ahern (Munster/Shannon)
20. David McCann (Ulster/Banbridge)
21. Ben Murphy (Leinster/Clontarf)
22. Jack Crowley (Munster/Cork Constitution)
23. Shane Daly (Munster/Cork Constitution)

That's a far more 'scratch' looking side than last time out, particularly at 8/9/10.

Loads of carrying ability in the pack though. I'm interested to see how Deeny gets on, assume he'll be calling the lineout.

[hugonaut]

Will be interested to see how Andrew Smith has developed. He looked a good bit out of his depth in his two appearances for Leinster a couple of seasons ago. We could do with a couple of the young back 3 academy players coming good.

I think we're so thin back there that we need to make a mid season signing. If he hasn't been snapped up already then I'd be trying to get Melani Nanai until the end of the season.

Yeah, was thinking the same thing myself yesterday evening. We could really do with a 3-month medical joker in the back three, because we are down to two fit outside backs in the senior squad [Keenan, Lowe, Kearney and O'Brien all injured].

The NPC ends in two weeks time and Super rugby doesn't kick off until 24 February. Timing would be good for us. Goodman having moved so recently from Canterbury could give us a link there to picking up somebody looking to pick up a short term deal for the right money.

In terms of a wishlist, Zarn Sullivan from Auckland impressed the hell out of me playing FB for the Maori in the first game against us.

[Ruckedtobits]

Andrew Smith looked like he had come on a lot during the recent Sevens coverage. He could be a beneficiary of the small game - like Jimmy O'B & Hugo K.

Still lots of moaning about this Tour, but Provinces have never fielded such strong, experienced teams in Rd 3 & 4 of any previous URC / Pro14 / Magners.

Previous complaints were we didn't treat RWC seriously enough. Now when the scales are tilted a little bit in favour of international team, there's complaints that URC competition is being ruined.

Needless to say, I'm a fan of the thinking behind this Tour, with such a reduced URC calendar and no formal A competition. I think it will be paying dividends for years to come. As for the opposition, beating bigger stronger men on their home patch is never a bad habit.

[Dave Cahill]

Andrew Smith looked like he had come on a lot during the recent Sevens coverage. He could be a beneficiary of the small game - like Aaron Sexton, Jimmy O'B & Hugo K.

Still lots of moaning about this Tour, but Provinces have never fielded such strong, experienced teams in Rd 3 & 4 of any previous URC / Pro14 / Magners.

Previous complaints were we didn't treat RWC seriously enough. Now when the scales are tilted a little bit in favour of international team, there's complaints that URC competition is being ruined.

Needless to say, I'm a fan of the thinking behind this Tour, with such a reduced URC calendar and no formal A competition. I think it will be paying dividends for years to come. As for the opposition, beating bigger stronger men on their home patch is never a bad habit.

The tour will be seen as a good idea if we win a quarter final, if we don't it won't be.

[heno]

The tour will be seen as a good idea if we win a quarter final, if we don't it won't be.

If we win a quarter final it will be as much to do with me wearing my lucky underpants that morning as it will this tour.

It has the look of something cobbled together out of the ashes of the rumoured provincial A competition with these sides. And in that context its fine, better than nothing. But going forward we will need a much better solution, eg a URC A competition, or Ireland A (not emerging) series during the November window.

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[Dave Cahill]

The tour will be seen as a good idea if we win a quarter final, if we don't it won't be.

If we win a quarter final it will be as much to do with me wearing my lucky underpants that morning as it will this tour.

It has the look of something cobbled together out of the ashes of the rumoured provincial A competition with these sides. And in that context its fine, better than nothing. But going forward we will need a much better solution, eg a URC A competition, or Ireland A (not emerging) series during the November window.

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You're right (and I agree), but the upper echelons of Union management would take the opposite view.