Emerging Ireland to tour SA

[wixfjord]

Who are they actually going to be playing?

I assume it's not SA, so then it must be Currie Cup sides?

Griquas, Pumas and Cheetahs - three of the four CC semifinalists (the fourth was the Blue Bulls). Pumas beat Griquas in the final.

They'll be three pretty tough games on hard pitches in SA Spring against tough packs. So will definitely be a test I supposed.

[wixfjord]

Some detail here from MK:
https://www.the42.ie/ireland-south-afri ... /#comments

The tour is set to clash with several rounds of the URC, meaning the provinces will be without certain players in the early stages of the new campaign, but The42 understands that frontline Ireland international players are set to be available to feature for their provinces by the time the touring squad is in South Africa.

This mini-tour is a new venture on Ireland’s part, with head coach Andy Farrell understood to be keen to continue building depth towards next year’s World Cup and beyond.

Ireland’s relative lack of depth has been an issue at the two most recent World Cups in 2015 and 2019.

Farrell and his coaches found great value in the midweek games in New Zealand and while the opposition in South Africa may not be of the same standard, the Irish coaching staff believe that having players in national team camp for a condensed period is hugely beneficial.

Farrell and co. feel that the three games against the Cheetahs, Pumas, and Griquas will test their inexperienced squad, but they are equally as keen to see how players cope in the demanding, high-intensity environment that is Ireland camp.

It’s believed that Farrell himself may not actually lead this tour to South Africa and could instead back his assistant coaches – Paul O’Connell, John Fogarty, Mike Catt, and Simon Easterby - to take on a little more responsibility as he attempts to develop that side of the Irish set-up too.

[dropkick]

I might be wrong but it sounds like a very mixed squad. Fringe ireland players and the rest will be made up with youngsters to get a look at them for 2024 and beyond. In that case there might not be too much disruption to the provinces.

[betty swallocks]

I might be wrong but it sounds like a very mixed squad. Fringe ireland players and the rest will be made up with youngsters to get a look at them for 2024 and beyond. In that case there might not be too much disruption to the provinces.

You may well be right there Dropkick, particularly after the follow up comments from earlier today. A mixed squad such as the following may work. Bear in mind the greatest needs in context of building a squad are in finding one more prop, a lock, and a 10.

Props: Loughman, E O'Sullivan, E Byrne, O'Toole, and Aungier.
Hookers: Kelleher, Scannell, and Heffernan.
Locks: Joe McCarthy, T Ahern, Thornbury, Josh Murphy.
Back Row: Prendergast, Coombes, Timoney, Baird, Deegan, Hodnett.
Scrum Half: Casey, Doak, Blade.
O/H: Frawley, H Byrne.
Centre: McCloskey, T Farrell, C Farrell.
Back 3: Larmour, Stockdale, J O'Brien, Earls (tour Capt), M Lowry.

Making 10 Leinster, 8 Munster, 7 Ulster, and 6 Connacht.

[ronk]

This was announced pretty soon after the Munster fixture. I'd say it was a done deal at that point and that SAR are happy that Currie Cup sides are getting glamour fixtures to keep everyone happy.

[wixfjord]

It’s understood the travelling party will include several uncapped players, some of whom have stood out at international level for the Ireland U20s in recent seasons but have struggled for first-team minutes at the provinces.

https://www.the42.ie/the42-rugby-weekly ... 6-Aug2022/

Wonder who this might be referring to?

Jack Boyle? Soroka? Campbell? Illo?

Not too many others who have really stood out at U20 but haven't gotten game time for a province.

[hugonaut]

It’s understood the travelling party will include several uncapped players, some of whom have stood out at international level for the Ireland U20s in recent seasons but have struggled for first-team minutes at the provinces.

https://www.the42.ie/the42-rugby-weekly ... 6-Aug2022/

Wonder who this might be referring to?

Jack Boyle? Soroka? Campbell? Illo?

Not too many others who have really stood out at U20 but haven't gotten game time for a province.

Tom Ahern, I reckon. Maybe Jack Crowley as well. Potentially Boyle, looks ready for the pros as a 20 year old and it's a position of need for us.

[riocard911]

Of the players Betty listed four posts back, I think they have to have a serious look at Doak. He had a smashing 21/22 season for the Ulstermen and plays wiser than his years.

[ronk]

It’s understood the travelling party will include several uncapped players, some of whom have stood out at international level for the Ireland U20s in recent seasons but have struggled for first-team minutes at the provinces.

https://www.the42.ie/the42-rugby-weekly ... 6-Aug2022/

Wonder who this might be referring to?

Jack Boyle? Soroka? Campbell? Illo?

Not too many others who have really stood out at U20 but haven't gotten game time for a province.

That's general enough that it could mean: Dooley, McCarthy, Penny, Frawley, Jimmy O'Brien, Jamie Osbourne. Knox would probably be a good bet as he'll get more gametime than letting Archer do 65 minutes.

[naraic]

I might be wrong but it sounds like a very mixed squad. Fringe ireland players and the rest will be made up with youngsters to get a look at them for 2024 and beyond. In that case there might not be too much disruption to the provinces.

Thats my feeling too. A dozen fringe players and a bunch of youngsters that might be genuine provincial A team players this season.

[jezzer]

There's probably a financial element to this too.

An 'A' tournament is an expense. An Emerging Ireland tour, being a crowd-puller for SA teams starved of high level rugby, could be a short-term money-spinner for the S Africans and therefore maybe the IRFU too.

Just looking at the crowds in SA and TV numbers, seems like you can sell anything high-level rugby into SA and make a.few quid. We'll probably never know if that's an aspect.

[Degz]

People listing squads seem to have Kelleher going.

Really?

[wixfjord]

People listing squads seem to have Kelleher going.

Really?

I was a bit baffled by that also.

He's hardly 'emerging' and would surely benefit more from playing three URC games with the starters. Likewise with Hendo who some have named also.

[jezzer]

People listing squads seem to have Kelleher going.

Really?

Nonsense. He'll be in the November series and i doubt there'll be any players who double up the two series, bar maybe a bolter from the Emerging side.

[hugonaut]

People listing squads seem to have Kelleher going.

Really?

I was a bit baffled by that also.

He's hardly 'emerging' and would surely benefit more from playing three URC games with the starters. Likewise with Hendo who some have named also.

I'd expect him to go. He missed the last three Six Nations games and the tour to NZ; that's a lot of time out of the Irish squad environment [since the second week of February]. I think that Farrell will want him back working in the national team system, particularly in the two primary set pieces, scrum and lineout.

[hugonaut]

Obviously I could be completely wrong about the above. It's a weird situation. They're supposed to be playing in a month, and the IRFU haven't even officially announced that there's a tour [as far as I know].

But I have no idea why they're having this tour if it's not preparing specifically for the World Cup in a year's time. So from my perspective the idea should be to select the current/recent test players:
1] who missed out on the tour through injury [Kelleher, Stockdale, Conway, Kilcoyne, Farrell and Baloucoune]; or
2] who got injured early on tour [Henderson, Hume and Harry Byrne]; or
3] who must have been very close to selection [O'Donoghue and Doak, in my opinion]

Then there are some positional things that I'm sure Farrell will want to see, like Baird play at No6. He was announced in the backrow for the NZ tour [source: https://www.irishrugby.ie/2022/06/14/an ... land-tour/ ] but ended up playing both matches off the bench as a lock when Hendo went home and wasn't replaced. Potentially he might want to see Mack Hansen at fullback, which only just struck me a minute ago.

I think after thaat you get down to what I would view as a more typical 'emerging' coterie, the guys who were off-the-charts U20s like Ahern, Penny, Kendellen, Crowley, Osborne, Boyle [all very much 'maybes' in my mind, bar Ahern].

From my perspective, a lot of this is about getting guys who are likely to be in the RWC squad, or who might get called into the RWC squad, to a] experience a tour environment, and then b] to spend time immersed in the systems that are set out by the Irish coaches. Otherwise it's a f*cking terrible idea.

[cormac]

Formal announcement of the tour from the IRFU.

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2022/08/31/em ... th-africa/

Simon Easterby to lead the coaching team. All games to be played in Bloemfontein.

Interesting extract plus match details;

The national coaching team will utilise this window to replicate the demands of the senior environment with the aim of accelerating the development of the Emerging Ireland group which will feature a host of players who have stood out at Ireland U20 level over the past few seasons.

Toyota Challenge 2022
Friday 30th September 2022
Windhoek Draught Griquas vs Emerging Ireland
KO: 12:45 (Irish time)

Wednesday 5th October 2022
Airlink Pumas vs Emerging Ireland
KO: 16:00 (Irish time)

Sunday 9th October 2022
Toyota Cheetahs vs Emerging Ireland
KO: 12:00 (Irish time)

[wixfjord]

Very interesting stuff.

It's basically all about preparing the next generation of coaches & players and doesn't seem to be RWC focused to the extent many expected.

Can't wait to see what the squad will look like.

In terms of URC, our guys will miss Ulster (a), Sharks (h) games definitely, and probably likely to miss the Connacht (a) game on 14th too.

[cormac]

The quote from the IRFU announcement makes it sound like it'll be an under-23 tour rather than a straight Ireland A side.

Guessing then that the likes of Tom Clarkson, Scott Penny, Michael Milne, John McKee, Joe McCarthy, Jamie Osborne, Jack Boyle, Cormac Foley and Alex Soroka are more likely to be involved than, say, the likes of Ed Byrne, Max Deegan, Jordan Larmour etc.

Ryan Baird and Harry Byrne might fit the profile too.

[ronk]

Obviously I could be completely wrong about the above. It's a weird situation. They're supposed to be playing in a month, and the IRFU haven't even officially announced that there's a tour [as far as I know].

But I have no idea why they're having this tour if it's not preparing specifically for the World Cup in a year's time. So from my perspective the idea should be to select the current/recent test players:
1] who missed out on the tour through injury [Kelleher, Stockdale, Conway, Kilcoyne, Farrell and Baloucoune]; or
2] who got injured early on tour [Henderson, Hume and Harry Byrne]; or
3] who must have been very close to selection [O'Donoghue and Doak, in my opinion]

Then there are some positional things that I'm sure Farrell will want to see, like Baird play at No6. He was announced in the backrow for the NZ tour [source: https://www.irishrugby.ie/2022/06/14/an ... land-tour/ ] but ended up playing both matches off the bench as a lock when Hendo went home and wasn't replaced. Potentially he might want to see Mack Hansen at fullback, which only just struck me a minute ago.

I think after thaat you get down to what I would view as a more typical 'emerging' coterie, the guys who were off-the-charts U20s like Ahern, Penny, Kendellen, Crowley, Osborne, Boyle [all very much 'maybes' in my mind, bar Ahern].

From my perspective, a lot of this is about getting guys who are likely to be in the RWC squad, or who might get called into the RWC squad, to a] experience a tour environment, and then b] to spend time immersed in the systems that are set out by the Irish coaches. Otherwise it's a f*cking terrible idea.

I'd really only see a place for number 3. Aside from giving someone time at being captain. If they want to work on specific players and give some potential bolters a chance then you mostly go there.

Someone like Jeremy Loughman makes a lot of sense.

There was a lesson learnt between the first and 2nd Maori tests and the team played as more of a team. I think players sometimes expect other people to lead and a tour can let other leaders emerge. For that reason I think they'll avoid bringing leaders like Ruddock, Molony, JOD.

Outhalf is possibly the most interesting position because it will give someone a chance to establish themselves. It could as easily be Harry Byrne as Leinster will have Sexton and Ross Byrne (and maybe Frawley).