Emerging Ireland to tour SA

[Dave Cahill]

Andy Farrell set to tour South Africa with 'Emerging Ireland' in September - with players to miss URC action

Brendan Fanning

Like a rabbit out of the hat the IRFU will add another layer to World Cup preparations with an Emerging Ireland tour to South Africa late next month. Andy Farrell is expected to bring more than 30 players on a three-game trip against non-URC opposition, spread over 10 days.

Allowing for significant crossover with the 40-man squad the head coach took on the successful tour to New Zealand last month, Farrell will have a deep pool of players with recent experience of the national set-up ahead of World Cup selection next summer.

“If you look at the lessons from the World Cup in England and Japan I think the depth was an issue in both,” an IRFU source said. “Andy was happy with how much the players learned in New Zealand, so he wants to extend that to give us the required depth for the World Cup. That’s probably 45 when you take into account injuries before the tournament and then when it’s up and running.”

Depending on which province you’re fishing in for players the impact of this will either be major or minor, over rounds two to four of the URC, Munster, for example, have early fixtures against the Dragons and Zebre while Connacht have the Stormers, the Bulls, and Munster on their dance card.

The trip will replace the mooted link-up for the Irish provinces’ A sides in a competition with South Africa’s Cheetahs, Griquas and Pumas. So instead of four provincial A sides doing the rounds with these three teams Emerging Ireland will fill the gap, assembling in Dublin on September 23. Farrell is likely to use those who featured in the games against the New Zealand Maori as his starting point for selection. The attraction of the NZ tour was that its five-game schedule allowed him to defer giving game-time to those he was unsure about until that trip. Now he can follow it up with further exposure for that back-up group.

So backs Stuart McCloskey, Jimmy O’Brien, Ciarán Frawley and Craig Casey, along with forwards Jeremy Loughman, Ed Byrne, Niall Scannell, Tom O’Toole, Joe McCarthy, Cian Prendergast, Gavin Coombes and Nick Timoney will be in the frame as starters.

The question is whether those players would be better off sticking with their provinces and the URC schedule against higher-ranked opposition than getting into bed with teams in a lower tier. Farrell’s line will be that they will gain more from further exposure to the Ireland way. Based in Bloemfontein for the three games there will be no escape from the business at hand.

Proposed fixtures – Frid, Sept 30: Griquas v Emerging Ireland. Wed, Oct 5: Pumas v Emerging Ireland. Sat, Oct 9: Cheetahs v Emerging Ireland.


https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... tml?555555

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Really interesting, I’m curious about when they decided to do it. Was it really last minute or was it planned a while ago and not announced so that other unions couldn’t copy? Was it known about before the NZ tour which explains why there wasn’t a small bit more rotation?

Seems like a much more sensible/cheaper idea than playing an A team tournament. The objectives/players obviously won’t be the same but some of the players pencilled in for the A team games will now be replacing these Ireland players in the URC anyway.

My only issue is the strength of the SA teams, even just replacing one game with a match against an equivalent SA team would have been better IMO, but after the NZ tour I’d trust Farrell to have got this one right.

[wixfjord]

Good for the national side and players involved, not so good for the provinces.

Clearly the national side is being given precedence in a RWC year, but looking at those dates, this would mean we'd be missing some key guys for the game in Kingspan on 30th September, for the Sharks home game on 8th October and potentially for our trip to the Sportsground on 14th October?

[cormac]

Good for the national side and players involved, not so good for the provinces.

Clearly the national side is being given precedence in a RWC year, but looking at those dates, this would mean we'd be missing some key guys for the game in Kingspan on 30th September, for the Sharks home game on 8th October and potentially for our trip to the Sportsground on 14th October?

I'd at least hope that the timing of the tour will coincide with when our first choice players become available. Only positive wrt to the Ulster match is that they're likely to be missing a number of key players too.

[riocard911]

I think this is a great idea. Sure it presents all kinds of challenges for the BIB, but hey, we're Leinster, ffs. The flying start in the URC last season didn't put silverwear on the table at the end. So if we don't start the season all that well, ho-hum. I'm not that bothered about topping the table anymore. I know Leinster put great store in getting home k.o. matches in Heino and URC and I understand why, but I think it's time we adopted the mindset, that we don't give a monkey's where we play, cos we're gonna win anyway, regardless of how much the home fans bray and regardless of how much we're outside our comfort zone (or not as the case may be). Am I being delusional? Perhaps a bit, but it's the mindset issue I'm trying to get at.

[Ruckedtobits]

From the perspective of Irish rugby, we need our front-five prospects to play against as many hard tough packs as possible as soon as possible. On the assumption that the Top14 League wouldn't even contemplate an Emerging Ireland team playing against French teams who might fit this bill between now and next August, I reckon S Africa or Argentina were the only options. Faz, PO'C & Easterbunny know a lot more about what they are looking for and where to find it.

Assuming that the quality of Irish forwards selected will not be expected to dominate their opponents physically, it will therefore also be a very useful and valuable experience for the selected half-backs - playing behind a beaten pack teaches far more than behind a dominant one.

Aside from the travel involved this Tour will entail the least disruption for the season of any player selected. It will certainly provide the Coaches with the opportunity to run a close rule over possibly 10 or a dozen likely prospects for inclusion in the RWC2023 Squad.

[FLIP]

Welsh rugby Twitter and media hacks complaining about how we're disrespecting the URC.

[cormac]

The IRFU are disrespecting the league. The timing of this tour is absolute bullshit.

[ronk]

If they meet up on the 23rd September then the Leinster Benetton game might also be affected.

We should expect impact on the trip to Connacht on the 14th. So players will be unavailable for 22% of the league. And that rises to 33% if they also miss the opener and don't get selected for the Munster game.

I haven't fully got my head around when we'll see the internationals and to what extent. Leinster have players who aren't first choice for Leinster but still make international squads. A tour like this creates a risk that a number of lads go on this tour, get picked for the AIs, get limited time in the Heineken Cup/other big games and find themselves approaching the 6N with 4 games for Leinster and not a lot of international time.

Faz seems to rate touring time and has a point so far. But it's taking a stinking dump on the URC at a time when it was threatening to get interesting.

If internationals are getting picked for the URC games fans might not notice so much so I'm not clear what the effects will be yet. There's no getting around the fact that it's competing for TV audience. The early run of games before the internationals return has been a key time for development, and tour cohesion might be at the expense of taking a provincial platform out from under players. This happens, guys spend time on the edge of international squads making up numbers and end up struggling at their province too, especially with a badly timed injury of a few weeks.

More rugby is interesting so that's nice. But it's also against sub URC opposition.

Faz has done well so he deserves some faith and if it comes off and Ireland have a super year then maybe it works out. But it's also scuttling whatever chances URC had to be an elite tournament competing with Top14, Prem and Super Rugby.

[hugonaut]

This is a really strange move. Putting on a development tour at short notice, outside the international window, to play three South African Currie Cup teams is like something from the amateur era. I'm not equating amateur with bad here, but that's how it struck me: pretty f*cking random.

We ended up using 43 players in NZ [the original 40 named in the squad plus McCloskey, Scannell and Bent] and we are going to have a RWC squad of 33, so we already have to cut ten players from the NZ squad to get down to a RWC squad number.

And no matter what spin you put on it, nobody is going to be convinced that playing the Griquas is in any way comparable with playing the All Blacks or the Maori. The players selected are going to miss three matches of the professional season with their provinces to play a development tour: for us that's games @ Ulster, vs Sharks and @ Connacht. I'd imagine that has gone down poorly with all the provincial coaches, regardless of what they have to say on it publicly.

Potential Touring Party

Forwards (19)
LH: Ed Byrne, Jerry Loughman, Dave Kilcoyne;
H: Ronan Kelleher, Niall Scannell, Dave Heffernan;
TH: Finlay Bealham, Tom O'Toole, Marty Moore[?];
L: Iain Henderson [c], Kieran Treadwell, Joe McCarthy, Tom Ahern,
FL: Cian Prendergast, Ryan Baird, Nick Timoney, Jack O'Donoghue;
No.8 Gavin Coombes, Max Deegan

Backs (13)
SH: Craig Casey, Nathan Doak,
OH: Ciaran Frawley, Harry Byrne
C: Stuart McCloskey, James Hume, Chris Farrell
W: Robert Baloucoune, Jordan Larmour, Jacob Stockdale, Andy Conway
FB: Jimmy O'Brien, Michael Lowry T.D.

Ulster: 11 players
Leinster: 9 players
Munster: 9 players
Connacht: 3 players

[ronk]

. I'd imagine that has gone down poorly with all the provincial coaches, regardless of what they have to say on it publicly.

Understandable. An international coach would only do this when they think the provincial setups are inadequate.

3 of the provinces have made significant changes to their senior coaching team. The players will now be heading off right after the season starts.

[Flash Gordon]

The IRFU are disrespecting the league. The timing of this tour is absolute bullshit.

September will be massively impacted by this from a URC perspective and we stop again in November for the internationals. Not a lot of respect for the League or the fans in all of this. Appreciate that RWC preparation is important but winning URC's and Champions Cups has always been an objective in the Strategic Plan too. It's a real shame that so early in the URC's existence that this kind of thing is happening.

[wixfjord]

Who are they actually going to be playing?

I assume it's not SA, so then it must be Currie Cup sides?

How is playing Currie Cup side without their URC or international players going to prepare guys for a RWC?

Is getting second string Irish players together for 3 weeks really that big a benefit for team cohesion that it warrants taking guys from the league?

This is a bit of a risk for Farrell from a PR POV as it'll be very widely discussed over next few weeks.

[wixfjord]

Michael Lowry T.D.

[wixfjord]

Looking at that possible squad, our game with Ulster will be badly impacted for both sides and our game against Connacht will give them a much better shot at turning us over.

Then you've us entertaining the Sharks for the first time in the RDS without some key players too.

I would assume the IRFU have discussed this with provincial coaches and basically said 'you can do what you want with the senior international players during these three weeks'.

So we'll see the likes of J10, JGP, Furlong, Keenan, Henshaw etc who have played all summer put back into the mix for round 3 and onwards from there.

[Flash Gordon]

Who are they actually going to be playing?

I assume it's not SA, so then it must be Currie Cup sides?

How is playing Currie Cup side without their URC or international players going to prepare guys for a RWC?

Is getting second string Irish players together for 3 weeks really that big a benefit for team cohesion that it warrants taking guys from the league?

This is a bit of a risk for Farrell from a PR POV as it'll be very widely discussed over next few weeks.

From an Ireland point of view the players are together and the Irish coaches have the opportunity to work with the players. That opportunity from a coaching perspective is still there in November with extended squad sessions. Curry Cup teams are a step down from URC competition though. That assumes the URC teams are at something approaching full strength of course, which they won't be in September now.

[wixfjord]

Who are they actually going to be playing?

I assume it's not SA, so then it must be Currie Cup sides?

How is playing Currie Cup side without their URC or international players going to prepare guys for a RWC?

Is getting second string Irish players together for 3 weeks really that big a benefit for team cohesion that it warrants taking guys from the league?

This is a bit of a risk for Farrell from a PR POV as it'll be very widely discussed over next few weeks.

From an Ireland point of view the players are together and the Irish coaches have the opportunity to work with the players. That opportunity from a coaching perspective is still there in November with extended squad sessions. Curry Cup teams are a step down from URC competition though. That assumes the URC teams are at something approaching full strength of course, which they won't be in September now.

The other teams besides Ireland will be at full strength though?

I suppose the big question is, do the benefits of taking second stringers away for three weeks together on tour together to play Currie Cup teams really outweigh the benefits of letting these guys play URC against better sides for their own provinces?

Clearly Faz & IRFU have identified the need to build up a stronger squad, but can that not be done between 6N & Autumn?

This is a very ballsy and pretty unprecedented move.

[wixfjord]

Also how exactly is this a replacement for the provincial A sides touring SA?

None of the guys going with Emerging Ireland are provincial 'A' team players and those who are provincial 'A' team players also won't get provincial game time when Emerging Ireland are away, as the internationals will be back (bar maybe at Ulster).

[Dave Cahill]

Who are they actually going to be playing?

I assume it's not SA, so then it must be Currie Cup sides?

Griquas, Pumas and Cheetahs - three of the four CC semifinalists (the fourth was the Blue Bulls). Pumas beat Griquas in the final.

[Dave Cahill]

Also how exactly is this a replacement for the provincial A sides touring SA?

That part was always a bit weird - it was originally announced as two Irish A sides involving all four provinces would play the three CC teams plus a combination Benetton and Zebre A side