Men's Six Nations 2022

[Twist]

Does anyone know of an up to date 6N all time table? This one comes up when you Google it, but it’s three championships out of date now

[Oldschoolsocks]

Does anyone know of an up to date 6N all time table? This one comes up when you Google it, but it’s three championships out of date now

That’s mad Ted, try this

https://www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/co ... ons/tables

Edit, ignore that I didn’t read your post right

[riocard911]

The cross field kick to George on the wing when they had peno advantage was hilarious. Best team won.

Takeaways:
Scrum is problem- playing furlong for 70+ minutes over 5 games is a problem. Harsh on bealham but I think we need a scrum specialist TH in there.
Healy won’t make the RWC.
Need Ballybob in there.
Aki not nailed on at 12
Keenan will need a run of bad games for Lowry to get a look in. Our player of the tournament
Ryan will remain first choice of fit
Conan not a cert at 8
Sheehan a cert in the 23 ahead of herring

Recently on the basis of some good performances, I'd been thinking it might be time to bring Marty Moore back into the national squad, but the Ulster vs Leinster match last week got me doubting, whether he's the answer to the depth problem at 3 in green.

[cormac]

Does anyone know of an up to date 6N all time table? This one comes up when you Google it, but it’s three championships out of date now

England P115 W77 D2 L36 PD +1224 BP67 Pts 379
Ireland P115 W76 D3 L36 PD +855 BP58 Pts 368
France P115 W73 D2 L40 PD +682 BP56 Pts 352
Wales P115 W63 D3 L49 PD +325 BP52 Pts 310
Scotland P115 W36 D3 L76 PD -744 BP36 Pts 186
Italy P115 W13 D1 L101 PD -2332 BP13 Pts 67

[sunshiner1]

by paddyor

Harsh on bealham but I think we need a scrum specialist TH in there.

Aren't all TH's scrum specialists? Isn't that the literal job description? What we need is a big TH Lock to replace the likes of Roux.

[ronk]

by paddyor

Harsh on bealham but I think we need a scrum specialist TH in there.

Aren't all TH's scrum specialists? Isn't that the literal job description? What we need is a big TH Lock to replace the likes of Roux.

No, not really.

Switching Porter to loosehead has created this issue. It has benefits too. Our scrum is mostly okay, but it's going to be targeted and we need to work on it.

[suisse]

So the #22 jersey then. We have a major problem with that shirt. Excluding the Italy game (and I understand you can't leave out certain games to suit a particular agenda, but that was getting Sexton some minutes before round 4), the total number of minutes for the number 22 against Wales, France, England and Scotland was 23 minutes. And 6 of those (yesterday v Scotland) were at 15. On 2 occasions, we left a playmaker replacement on the bench for 79 minutes, incl one game we never once led in. Our back up 10 (Carbery and Carty) saw a total of 17 mins at fly half across the 4 bigger games.

Sexton is the captain, leader, our most important player and he's playing well. So I understand it isn't as simple as just taking him off for the sake of offering minutes to someone else. But the 2 in reserve were, imo, not remotely convincing in the time given. I'd feel less panicky if the reserve 10 was accomplished at this level but I think Carbery got a free ride from most observers after Paris

[Atlas]

So the #22 jersey then. We have a major problem with that shirt. Excluding the Italy game (and I understand you can't leave out certain games to suit a particular agenda, but that was getting Sexton some minutes before round 4), the total number of minutes for the number 22 against Wales, France, England and Scotland was 23 minutes. And 6 of those (yesterday v Scotland) were at 15. On 2 occasions, we left a playmaker replacement on the bench for 79 minutes, incl one game we never once led in. Our back up 10 (Carbery and Carty) saw a total of 17 mins at fly half across the 4 bigger games.

Sexton is the captain, leader, our most important player and he's playing well. So I understand it isn't as simple as just taking him off for the sake of offering minutes to someone else. But the 2 in reserve were, imo, not remotely convincing in the time given. I'd feel less panicky if the reserve 10 was accomplished at this level but I think Carbery got a free ride from most observers after Paris

I think the management gave Joey his shot against Italy and it didn't go well. He was then given a few seconds against England and 7 odd mins at fullback against Scotland and i think that shows they have lost faith in him. I think Joey has a problem at Munster now as well as Healy as gone well for them and Joey isn't automatically the starting 10. I'm not sure if he makes the plane to NZ anymore.

I don't think Carty was ever really given a decent shot to be fair to him.

Pre 6 nations, the backup 10 was a problem and post 6 Nations, it's still a problem. To be fair to management they have given a lot of players a shot over the last 18 odd months but no one has really convinced.

[sunshiner1]

by Atlas

I think the management gave Joey his shot against Italy and it didn't go well. He was then given a few seconds against England and 7 odd mins at fullback against Scotland and i think that shows they have lost faith in him. I think Joey has a problem at Munster now as well as Healy as gone well for them and Joey isn't automatically the starting 10. I'm not sure if he makes the plane to NZ anymore.

I don't think Carty was ever really given a decent shot to be fair to him.

Pre 6 nations, the backup 10 was a problem and post 6 Nations, it's still a problem. To be fair to management they have given a lot of players a shot over the last 18 odd months but no one has really convinced.

I agree. Carbury at one stage maybe but not after injury. Carty is too hot and cold unfortunately. Burns isn't international class. I think Crowley is the best of an average lot. He should be brought on tour and given a shot. Harry Byrne is not getting the minutes and Ross Byrne doesn't suit the style Ireland want to play.

[Ruckedtobits]

So the #22 jersey then. We have a major problem with that shirt. Excluding the Italy game (and I understand you can't leave out certain games to suit a particular agenda, but that was getting Sexton some minutes before round 4), the total number of minutes for the number 22 against Wales, France, England and Scotland was 23 minutes. And 6 of those (yesterday v Scotland) were at 15. On 2 occasions, we left a playmaker replacement on the bench for 79 minutes, incl one game we never once led in. Our back up 10 (Carbery and Carty) saw a total of 17 mins at fly half across the 4 bigger games.

Sexton is the captain, leader, our most important player and he's playing well. So I understand it isn't as simple as just taking him off for the sake of offering minutes to someone else. But the 2 in reserve were, imo, not remotely convincing in the time given. I'd feel less panicky if the reserve 10 was accomplished at this level but I think Carbery got a free ride from most observers after Paris

+1
But what to do next? Ross Byrne is the most consistent applicant but is considered to have a limited ceiling. Burns does not appear to have the game management. Carty appears to have the vision to use a backline, but not the judgement to choose the right options at international level. Harry Bryne, Michael Lowry and Ciaran Frawley haven't had enough Provincial game time at out-half to form a valid judgement. Ben Healy & Jack Crowley have had Provincial experience but haven't demonstrated either consistency or game management to warrant international selection.

Carbery seems the least worst option, but is not even as good as he was pre-injury. Using up valuable international team game time, in the hope that he will 're-find' form I'm not convinced he has ever shown at that level, is a very big experiment. Unless he can quickly demonstrate at Provincial level that he can manage a back-line and team playing high-paced, multi-option, rugby, that cost is too high.

For the NZ Tour, we should take Sexton and a maximum of two other candidates, one of whom may be Lowry who will surely travel anyway. All of the other candidates should be told that the next 3 months will be the assessment / selection period (probably nothing unusual there).

[ronk]

The smooth transition of players like Sexton is a myth. When someone is so dominant it's too hard for everyone who has to live up to it. For all the planning and dev around BOD, Ringrose only broke through after he went. Keenan emerged after Kearney and was unexpected.

Understudies like Tony Buckley and Court were quickly overtaken by Ross.

Ireland have a panel of mid-late 20s outhalves and a younger group coming up. It's likely to stay unclear until after Sexton leaves who the short and long term replacements are. At this stage we should focus on playing rugby and solve that problem later. Putting too much pressure on players won't be helpful.

[Oldschoolsocks]

The smooth transition of players like Sexton is a myth. When someone is so dominant it's too hard for everyone who has to live up to it. For all the planning and dev around BOD, Ringrose only broke through after he went. Keenan emerged after Kearney and was unexpected.

Understudies like Tony Buckley and Court were quickly overtaken by Ross.

Ireland have a panel of mid-late 20s outhalves and a younger group coming up. It's likely to stay unclear until after Sexton leaves who the short and long term replacements are. At this stage we should focus on playing rugby and solve that problem later. Putting too much pressure on players won't be helpful.

We’ve been very lucky in our outhalf transitions in modern days.

Elwood -> Humphreys
Humphreys -> O’Gara
O’Gara -> Sexton

That covers almost 30 years right there

[ustix]

The Smith, McAleese, Russell, Malone, Barry, Burke, McGowan years weren't so smooth

[LeRouxIsPHat]

We’re not in a bad place by any means but I think we regressed a lot from November. The Wales game was encouraging regardless of how poor Wales were, but I think the other games were all very mixed.

Our depth really isn’t great in most positions, it’s not just prop and outhalf although they’re clearly the biggest concerns.

There isn’t really time for many changes before the NZ tour so I suspect that that will be the end for some players and then we’ll make changes in November if some of the youngsters kick on at provincial level, not into the starting team but on to the bench and the wider squad.

[riocard911]

by Atlas

I think the management gave Joey his shot against Italy and it didn't go well. He was then given a few seconds against England and 7 odd mins at fullback against Scotland and i think that shows they have lost faith in him. I think Joey has a problem at Munster now as well as Healy as gone well for them and Joey isn't automatically the starting 10. I'm not sure if he makes the plane to NZ anymore.

I don't think Carty was ever really given a decent shot to be fair to him.

Pre 6 nations, the backup 10 was a problem and post 6 Nations, it's still a problem. To be fair to management they have given a lot of players a shot over the last 18 odd months but no one has really convinced.

I agree. Carbury at one stage maybe but not after injury. Carty is too hot and cold unfortunately. Burns isn't international class. I think Crowley is the best of an average lot. He should be brought on tour and given a shot. Harry Byrne is not getting the minutes and Ross Byrne doesn't suit the style Ireland want to play.

I'm all for giving Harry the minutes. That said he has to win the fight for the 10 jersey in blue and green and recently, due to injury, he hasn't managed to do that. If he manages to put string some decent performances together in the latter stages of the URC and/or the Heino, I'd take him to NZ.

[desperado]

by paddyor

Harsh on bealham but I think we need a scrum specialist TH in there.

Aren't all TH's scrum specialists? Isn't that the literal job description? What we need is a big TH Lock to replace the likes of Roux.

No, not really.

Switching Porter to loosehead has created this issue. It has benefits too. Our scrum is mostly okay, but it's going to be targeted and we need to work on it.

Birch made an interesting comment during coverage last night re the importance of TH lock. He said when he coached Willemse at Grenoble he was unreal 'made stars out of several THs; (jokingly said) some of whom got contracts elsewhere as a result that they shouldn't really have' . It's why Leinster are giving Jenkins a punt; and why Kleyn got a glimmer of a lookin at Test level under Schmidt. Problem (IMO) with Kleyn is he doesn't offer much else other than bulk. Is Joe McCarthy really 120kg? Interesting he was called up to train with the senior team. Will he be on the plane to the Land of the long white cloud?

[neiliog93]

Pretty mediocre Six Nations from Ireland. No good teams in the tournament except France. We were lucky with the red card against England, struggled to put away a terrible Scotland, and should have put 50 point on an abject Wales.

[wixfjord]

Aren't all TH's scrum specialists? Isn't that the literal job description? What we need is a big TH Lock to replace the likes of Roux.

No, not really.

Switching Porter to loosehead has created this issue. It has benefits too. Our scrum is mostly okay, but it's going to be targeted and we need to work on it.

Birch made an interesting comment during coverage last night re the importance of TH lock. He said when he coached Willemse at Grenoble he was unreal 'made stars out of several THs; (jokingly said) some of whom got contracts elsewhere as a result that they shouldn't really have' . It's why Leinster are giving Jenkins a punt; and why Kleyn got a glimmer of a lookin at Test level under Schmidt. Problem (IMO) with Kleyn is he doesn't offer much else other than bulk. Is Joe McCarthy really 120kg? Interesting he was called up to train with the senior team. Will he be on the plane to the Land of the long white cloud?

McCarthy is a long shot, but would be an interesting option for RWC alright.

If there is a feeling that we need more power and a TH lock then he could sneak in ahead of Baird if he gets a run in blue.

[Dexter]

Pretty mediocre Six Nations from Ireland. No good teams in the tournament except France. We were lucky with the red card against England, struggled to put away a terrible Scotland, and should have put 50 point on an abject Wales.

All we have to do is be better than the other teams. We very nearly were better than all of them. To me that exceeds mediocrity.

[hugonaut]

JVDF nominated for Six Nations Player of the Tournament, alongside Dupont and Alldritt: https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2022/03 ... mpionship/

A well-earned nomination for a very prestigious award. Well done JVDF!