Men's Six Nations 2022

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neiliog93
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by neiliog93 »

hugonaut wrote: March 20th, 2022, 8:53 pm JVDF nominated for Six Nations Player of the Tournament, alongside Dupont and Alldritt: https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/2022/03 ... mpionship/

A well-earned nomination for a very prestigious award. Well done JVDF!
Well deserved for VDF. Has really matured into a world class test operator - honestly didn't see it coming a few years ago.

Dupont deserved to win world of the player last year and he is still the best player in the world. But based on form purely in the Six Nations tournament, Alldritt is more deserving of player of the tournament. Dupont showed some great flashes but wasn't at his best most of the time.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by desperado »

neiliog93 wrote: March 20th, 2022, 7:54 pm Pretty mediocre Six Nations from Ireland. No good teams in the tournament except France. We were lucky with the red card against England, struggled to put away a terrible Scotland, and should have put 50 point on an abject Wales.
That's a fairly 'glass half empty' assessment. How you can say we were 'lucky' with the red card v England is conjecture. It's only guesswork how the game would have unfolded with 15 v 15. The red card gave England more fuel than if it hadn't happened. Not sure Scotland are terrible. It's all a bit of if, buts, ands and maybes. If my Auntie had etc. You could also say if JS had taken been fit for the crucial first game we could be talking a Caithréim Mhór vs a Grand Chelem (glass half full!)
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by enby »

ustix wrote: March 20th, 2022, 12:19 pm The Smith, McAleese, Russell, Malone, Barry, Burke, McGowan years weren't so smooth
some real turkeys in that list alright. Some of them were served by such stellar 9s as Doyle, Saunders, Savremutto, Rolland and McIvor.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by Ruckedtobits »

neiliog93 wrote: March 20th, 2022, 7:54 pm Pretty mediocre Six Nations from Ireland. No good teams in the tournament except France. We were lucky with the red card against England, struggled to put away a terrible Scotland, and should have put 50 point on an abject Wales.
Very harsh commentary on a team playing high-tempo, high-skill rugby. We did lots of things very well consistently and it's much more difficult to hide weaknesses in the style we play.

Yes, mistakes occurred and sometimes in simple areas like passing and catching but that can happen to any team even NZ. the6N is an attritional tournament and we maintained our form throughout the competition, although arguably our best performance was our first against Wales.

I don't accept it was a mediocre performance from Ireland. We imposed our style on every team, even France, not for every moment, not in every facet, but we never reverted to box kicks or pick & jam rugby because of the defences presented against us.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by sunshiner1 »

by desperado

Birch made an interesting comment during coverage last night re the importance of TH lock. He said when he coached Willemse at Grenoble he was unreal 'made stars out of several THs; (jokingly said) some of whom got contracts elsewhere as a result that they shouldn't really have' . It's why Leinster are giving Jenkins a punt; and why Kleyn got a glimmer of a lookin at Test level under Schmidt. Problem (IMO) with Kleyn is he doesn't offer much else other than bulk. Is Joe McCarthy really 120kg? Interesting he was called up to train with the senior team. Will he be on the plane to the Land of the long white cloud?
I could definitely see McCarthy been fast-tracked. Maybe New Zealand is to much to soon but I could see him getting some gametime in November if he keeps his current form.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by Experimental »

Congrats to Josh on the nomination, shows the hard work he has put in over the last few months.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by JB1973 »

A very interesting trio of games , Wales were abject apart from two moment of class from Watkin and Adams in attack

Italy played well and their 15 and Ioane were the best backs on the field while their 6 was the best forward

Ireland won at a canter really, Sheehan was excellent and is going to be a star, keenan doris and jvdf all played well

Hogg wins the award for the most selfish play of this years 6 nations


France won well and scored a couple of class trys, they have some top top players who can pull a moment of magic out from anywhere

My unofficial team of the 6 nations for what it's worth would read like this

Keenan Ioane Ficko Aki Penaud Ntamack DuPont

Baille Marchand Furlong (well ignore the twickers game)
Willemese Woki
Lamaro JVDF Aldritt
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Flash Gordon
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by Flash Gordon »

Ruckedtobits wrote: March 21st, 2022, 8:30 am
neiliog93 wrote: March 20th, 2022, 7:54 pm Pretty mediocre Six Nations from Ireland. No good teams in the tournament except France. We were lucky with the red card against England, struggled to put away a terrible Scotland, and should have put 50 point on an abject Wales.
Very harsh commentary on a team playing high-tempo, high-skill rugby. We did lots of things very well consistently and it's much more difficult to hide weaknesses in the style we play.

Yes, mistakes occurred and sometimes in simple areas like passing and catching but that can happen to any team even NZ. the6N is an attritional tournament and we maintained our form throughout the competition, although arguably our best performance was our first against Wales.

I don't accept it was a mediocre performance from Ireland. We imposed our style on every team, even France, not for every moment, not in every facet, but we never reverted to box kicks or pick & jam rugby because of the defences presented against us.
Yeah, if you look at our bonus point tally it's impressive. We scored more points and conceded less than any other team. The game plan is evolving so that's a positive.

We started badly against France with the wrong game plan in my view and critically missing Sexton and still nearly beat them in Paris. Certainly room for improvement but generally a pretty decent showing.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by backrower8 »

Conan was playing well when hooked. Probably better than Doris, who puts down too many passes but is forgiven...others would be roasted. Being taken off for POM on 53 minuites made no sense and I think Conan was playing better than Doris at the time.

Talk of Healy's demise is very much exaggerated. His carries and tackles compare with Porters' and he is still scoring tries. The scrum in Twickers was a systems error. That said we need to find another loose-head and tight-head and tight-head lock.

Can Jack Mc make it back? Has Eric O'Sullivan has gone to far off the boil?

We need Tom O'Toole to tour NZ. Bealham was unlucky with that penalty. The Scots were targeting him and he held well, but we left the ball in the scrum way too long.

I think Joe McCarthy will be a bolter for RWC and maybe even NZ tour. Johnny gave a big interview hint saying that we had some amazing young talent in camp over the 6N who really impressed and he specifically used the term 'bolter'.

If he can get back to 80% of his 2018 form, Leavy would be a great backrow option off the bench.

Replacememnt 10 is a big problem. This tour is the most exciting Irish tour ever to my mind. The season run-in will see provincial players playing out of their socks to get on that plane.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by Peg Leg »

Ruckedtobits wrote: March 21st, 2022, 8:30 am
neiliog93 wrote: March 20th, 2022, 7:54 pm Pretty mediocre Six Nations from Ireland. No good teams in the tournament except France. We were lucky with the red card against England, struggled to put away a terrible Scotland, and should have put 50 point on an abject Wales.
Very harsh commentary on a team playing high-tempo, high-skill rugby. We did lots of things very well consistently and it's much more difficult to hide weaknesses in the style we play.

Yes, mistakes occurred and sometimes in simple areas like passing and catching but that can happen to any team even NZ. the6N is an attritional tournament and we maintained our form throughout the competition, although arguably our best performance was our first against Wales.

I don't accept it was a mediocre performance from Ireland. We imposed our style on every team, even France, not for every moment, not in every facet, but we never reverted to box kicks or pick & jam rugby because of the defences presented against us.
Inclined to agree here and would suggest that it's more a case of the teams adapting to Irelands game and nullifying some of the options we had available to us in November. e.g. Fickou aggressively shooting out up to cut off two passing options for whoever was the play maker and forcing back in to a busy midfield.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by jezzer »

Peg Leg wrote: March 21st, 2022, 4:35 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote: March 21st, 2022, 8:30 am
neiliog93 wrote: March 20th, 2022, 7:54 pm Pretty mediocre Six Nations from Ireland. No good teams in the tournament except France. We were lucky with the red card against England, struggled to put away a terrible Scotland, and should have put 50 point on an abject Wales.
Very harsh commentary on a team playing high-tempo, high-skill rugby. We did lots of things very well consistently and it's much more difficult to hide weaknesses in the style we play.

Yes, mistakes occurred and sometimes in simple areas like passing and catching but that can happen to any team even NZ. the6N is an attritional tournament and we maintained our form throughout the competition, although arguably our best performance was our first against Wales.

I don't accept it was a mediocre performance from Ireland. We imposed our style on every team, even France, not for every moment, not in every facet, but we never reverted to box kicks or pick & jam rugby because of the defences presented against us.
Inclined to agree here and would suggest that it's more a case of the teams adapting to Irelands game and nullifying some of the options we had available to us in November. e.g. Fickou aggressively shooting out up to cut off two passing options for whoever was the play maker and forcing back in to a busy midfield.
Absolutely. What do people think, that just because we have a new attacking shape our opponents are going to wave us through?

France, as Peg Leg says, put a shooter up to keep us funnelled inside. They tried to pull the carrier down towards them to isolate him from the ruck support.

England, albeit having to adapt to having 14, put Slade at the 10 slot a lot in defence with Smith out on the wing and used territory game and their pack to limit our visits into the 22.

Scotland, without the pack strength of the other two, went for double and triple tackles to prevent the offload/pass. It was very risky, as if you can pass around it you should have numbers, but it worked very well - especially with us playing Aki at 12.

I know there were unforced errors too, but that's going to happen with how we play and the tempo we use. Not long ago, at the top level you might only get one or two clear line break opportunities a game. With the rule changes and the tactics we use, Ireland are creating multiple clean breaks a game. Not every clean break has a realistic chance of becoming a try but the fact we're scoring so many is proof - if it was needed - that the tactics (errors and all) are working.

Porter, Kelleher and Ryan are all pretty key options in our attacking shape. The replacements all have their own positive attacking profiles, but they don't fit into the system the same way as the others. As the squad grows and has more camps, the number of players who can come in and play the various system roles will expand and we're less likely to miss the key guys so much.

But defences are already showing that there are answers to the questions we ask. There is no perfect system and no squad that can execute it perfectly. That's just being churlishly unrealistic.

The best team performances came from Ireland. I don't think there's even a debate about that. France were actually quite bad for decent stretches of every game they played. They're getting eulogies for how they're back to playing "the beautiful game" but in reality it's a few bits of magic per game from their two world class backs, in between swathes of good solid play and some fairly poor passages. They're just lucky to have some global star level players and an elite coaching setup who gives them solidity.

We don't have global stars, but we do play the best team game.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by wixfjord »

jezzer wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:09 pm

The best team performances came from Ireland. I don't think there's even a debate about that. France were actually quite bad for decent stretches of every game they played.
Our best performance came against a poor Wales side. In on other game did we play well for 80 mins.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by FLIP »

jezzer wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:09 pmScotland, without the pack strength of the other two, went for double and triple tackles to prevent the offload/pass. It was very risky, as if you can pass around it you should have numbers, but it worked very well - especially with us playing Aki at 12.
Something they did repeatedly and got away with was the tackler rolling away in a way that interfered with JGP/trailing players and slowing them from reaching the ruck and passing/securing the ball. Another referee would have blown them off the park for it.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by jezzer »

wixfjord wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:28 pm
jezzer wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:09 pm

The best team performances came from Ireland. I don't think there's even a debate about that. France were actually quite bad for decent stretches of every game they played.
Our best performance came against a poor Wales side. In on other game did we play well for 80 mins.
That depends a lot on how you define playing well.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by wixfjord »

jezzer wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:40 pm
wixfjord wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:28 pm
jezzer wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:09 pm

The best team performances came from Ireland. I don't think there's even a debate about that. France were actually quite bad for decent stretches of every game they played.
Our best performance came against a poor Wales side. In on other game did we play well for 80 mins.
That depends a lot on how you define playing well.
How do you define it? Because we were patchy against all the other four. I don't think there's even a debate about that...
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by jezzer »

wixfjord wrote: March 21st, 2022, 10:19 pm
jezzer wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:40 pm
wixfjord wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:28 pm

Our best performance came against a poor Wales side. In on other game did we play well for 80 mins.
That depends a lot on how you define playing well.
How do you define it? Because we were patchy against all the other four. I don't think there's even a debate about that...
Well, I mean on the offensive side we scored more tries than Ireland ever has in 6N history, securing 4 bonus points. On the defensive side we conceded the fewest tries in the tournament (4) and I haven't checked but i imagine it's the fewest in Irish history in the pro era.

Historic production on the O and D sides of the ball? I'd say that was pretty compelling an argument, no?
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by blockhead »

wixfjord wrote: March 21st, 2022, 10:19 pm
jezzer wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:40 pm
wixfjord wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:28 pm

Our best performance came against a poor Wales side. In on other game did we play well for 80 mins.
That depends a lot on how you define playing well.
How do you define it? Because we were patchy against all the other four. I don't think there's even a debate about that...
Patchy as in non-perfect, then agreed, no debate about that. You could have the exact same argument about France. Slow start against Italy, almost fell to pieces against us, shat the bed against Wales who had a walk in try to win it, bossed by England in the 2nd half.

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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by wixfjord »

jezzer wrote: March 22nd, 2022, 7:26 am
wixfjord wrote: March 21st, 2022, 10:19 pm
jezzer wrote: March 21st, 2022, 9:40 pm

That depends a lot on how you define playing well.
How do you define it? Because we were patchy against all the other four. I don't think there's even a debate about that...
Well, I mean on the offensive side we scored more tries than Ireland ever has in 6N history, securing 4 bonus points. On the defensive side we conceded the fewest tries in the tournament (4) and I haven't checked but i imagine it's the fewest in Irish history in the pro era.

Historic production on the O and D sides of the ball? I'd say that was pretty compelling an argument, no?
So you look at tournament wide stats to understand whether we played well across all 80 minutes in 5 games?

Not sure that's a great metric to understand that claim is it?

We have had a mixed tournament, and like with France, we were middling to poor in at least four of our games. You could make the argument that pre Adams card in the Wales game we were veering that way too.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by munster#1 »

Firstly, I would like to say that it has been a pleasure to watch Ireland play over the last few months.
For years we have had a limited but effective game plan, and we now seem to be moving towards a much more exciting style of play.

There are many positives to take from this 6 nations, none more so than the obvious cohesion between our players from 1-23.

Saying that, there are also a good few negatives.

The scrum for me is a major concern. The Ireland scrum was second place in most games we played, and could have cost us dearly in the English game.
If the scrum is not addressed then we have no hope of winning tight games, and it also makes it difficult to play a high tempo game when your back line is on the back foot when you do get ball out.

Centre partnership: I know that this will be a contentious point to make on here, but I don’t think that Aki and Ringrose work together.
For me I think Ringrose has a lot to work on, he seems to take too much out of the ball, he cuts in when a pass is on, he passes when he should straighten the line and he tucks the ball under his elbow going into contact far too much, rather than look for the pop pass.
He has bags of talent, but for me Henshaw is a much better 13.

Breakdown: Ireland didn’t defend the breakdown as well as they usually do, which resulted in scrappy ball or a turnover.
Again, if you want high tempo rugby then you need quick and clean ball.

The biggest problem for me was use of the bench. Probably down to lack of faith in our reserves, we seen the likes of Joey and Bealham get very limited game time.
If they are not the options going forward, the Ireland need to look for alternatives right away.

I don’t think anyone would have watched Ireland in this 6 nations and felt fear at the prospect of playing us.
I would say that they would view this as an opportune time to take a scalp.
I would love to see Ireland rest the likes of Furlong, Murray, Earls, Sexton, POM and maybe even Ryan for the summer in an effort to save their legs and to look for alternatives.
Just because a post upsets you, that doesn’t mean that it is wrong. People have different views in all aspects of life, this is a key ingredient to an interesting conversation.
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Re: Men's Six Nations 2022

Post by Flash Gordon »

munster#1 wrote: March 22nd, 2022, 9:59 am Firstly, I would like to say that it has been a pleasure to watch Ireland play over the last few months.
For years we have had a limited but effective game plan, and we now seem to be moving towards a much more exciting style of play.

There are many positives to take from this 6 nations, none more so than the obvious cohesion between our players from 1-23.

Saying that, there are also a good few negatives.

The scrum for me is a major concern. The Ireland scrum was second place in most games we played, and could have cost us dearly in the English game.
If the scrum is not addressed then we have no hope of winning tight games, and it also makes it difficult to play a high tempo game when your back line is on the back foot when you do get ball out.

Centre partnership: I know that this will be a contentious point to make on here, but I don’t think that Aki and Ringrose work together.
For me I think Ringrose has a lot to work on, he seems to take too much out of the ball, he cuts in when a pass is on, he passes when he should straighten the line and he tucks the ball under his elbow going into contact far too much, rather than look for the pop pass.
He has bags of talent, but for me Henshaw is a much better 13.

Breakdown: Ireland didn’t defend the breakdown as well as they usually do, which resulted in scrappy ball or a turnover.
Again, if you want high tempo rugby then you need quick and clean ball.

The biggest problem for me was use of the bench. Probably down to lack of faith in our reserves, we seen the likes of Joey and Bealham get very limited game time.
If they are not the options going forward, the Ireland need to look for alternatives right away.

I don’t think anyone would have watched Ireland in this 6 nations and felt fear at the prospect of playing us.
I would say that they would view this as an opportune time to take a scalp.
I would love to see Ireland rest the likes of Furlong, Murray, Earls, Sexton, POM and maybe even Ryan for the summer in an effort to save their legs and to look for alternatives.
A lot of what you say is a consequence of why we are so good to watch. I'd agree with you on ruck ball protection to a certain extent but our objective is to recycle within 3 seconds. There's a trade off there, we'll undoubtedly have to sacrifice a couple of turnovers to achieve that.

Not sure on the centers, my first name would be Henshaw plus 1. I know France marked the 13 channel in Paris but what he was doing was different to the way we played in the Autumn. I do hear what you are saying about Ringrose and the options he choses - he's such an incredibly talented player though....

We'll see n the summer tour, I wish we were playing Australia rather than the All Blacks. With regard to the lack of faith in the bench, that's true of course but in reality Joey is the next best option unless we look at reverting to Ross Byrne. Harry Byrne and Frawley are playing 12 for Leinster now, Burns doesn't have it and the coaches don't like Carty. It is what it is.

Some of the lads you mention resting might not make the world cup. I'd love the summer tour to be an opportunity for Casey to challenge for the 9 spot for example. Also think one of my favourite Irish players Keith Earls might have played his last game. There is such a wealth of talent on the wing currently.
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