Ireland Autumn Internationals 2021

[outcast eddie]

GT's predicted squad.

Hookers: Kelleher, Herring, Sheahan.

Props: Porter, Kilcoyne, Healy, Furlong, O’Toole, Bealham.

Locks: Ryan, Henderson, Beirne, Baird, Wycherley.

Backrows: Doris, Conan, Van der Flier, O’Mahony, Coombes, Timoney.

Scrumhalves: Murray, Casey, Gibson-Park.

Outhalves: Sexton, Carbery, H Byrne.

Centres: Aki, Henshaw, Ringrose, McCloskey, Hume.

Back three: Keenan, Earls, Larmour, Lowe, Stockdale, Conway, Zebo.

With the back row talent in each province I'm surprised to see PO'M still be considered.

Be a shame if Ross Moloney doesn't make the squad.

I personally have Carty over Carbery, internationals are not the place to try and find form.

[outcast eddie]

The fixtures

Ireland v Japan
Date: Saturday 6th November 2021
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick-off: 1:00pm
TV Coverage: Live on RTE (ROI) and Channel 4 (UK)

Ireland v New Zealand
Date: Saturday 13th November 2021
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick-off: 3:15pm
TV Coverage: Live on RTE (ROI) and Channel 4 (UK)

Ireland v Argentina
Date: Sunday 21st November 2021
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick-off: 2:15pm
TV Coverage: Live on RTE (ROI) and Channel 4 (UK)

[CiaranIrl]

I think it's fairly ridiculous to include Fineen Wycherley as a second row. He's 6'3 / 1.93m for christ's sake. He's about the same height as Rhys Ruddock. Munster can play him wherever they want for all I care, but he's not remotely big enough to play in the row at this level. I mean, Tadhg Beirne might not be big enough to cut it at international level as a second row, and he's 3 inches taller than him. At least Ryan Baird has some hope of filling out.

[wixfjord]

H Byrne over Healy/Carty is an interesting call. Not sure he has done much to warrant that.

McCloskey over Frawley would be also. Don't really see the point of McCloskey being in squads.

He's sort of forced to choose Zebo really. Is Baloucoune injured?

[ronk]

I think it's fairly ridiculous to include Fineen Wycherley as a second row. He's 6'3 / 1.93m for christ's sake. He's about the same height as Rhys Ruddock. Munster can play him wherever they want for all I care, but he's not remotely big enough to play in the row at this level. I mean, Tadhg Beirne might not be big enough to cut it at international level as a second row, and he's 3 inches taller than him. At least Ryan Baird has some hope of filling out.

I think this shows just how alarming the drop off in quality is down the depth chart. It's not like there's even an injury crisis.

You can put Henderson and Ryan starting, Beirne at 6 (probably his best position) and then who on the bench even? Roux is gone. Dillane is probably not the answer. Toner is too old. Molony may change as he establishes as a Leinster starter at HC level. Baird is raw but at least worth development time.

Is Kleyn a better call than Wycherly?

Now maybe Ireland could go a level deeper for talent and promote Ahern/Murray/Other early, but maybe a season of provincial rugby is best there.

[ronk]

H Byrne over Healy/Carty is an interesting call. Not sure he has done much to warrant that.

McCloskey over Frawley would be also. Don't really see the point of McCloskey being in squads.

He's sort of forced to choose Zebo really. Is Baloucoune injured?

I get why Harry Byrne is there. He's the medium-long term option that needs development. He could still be starting for Ireland at the RWC.

What's worrying is that there's no solid backup option in the squad. There are 3 options who know the system and have been playing. There are minor fitness concerns about all the outhalves going, serious questions over Carbery's form and international level durability. Harry Byrne has been injured too and has limited gametime.

If Faz needs to make a hard call on the fitness or form of one of those players then there aren't options.

[Morf]

Centres: Aki, Henshaw, Ringrose, McCloskey, Hume.

Back three: Keenan, Earls, Larmour, Lowe, Stockdale, Conway, Zebo.

Of these players it feels like Hume is the only player selected on form rather than reputation.

[wixfjord]

Centres: Aki, Henshaw, Ringrose, McCloskey, Hume.

Back three: Keenan, Earls, Larmour, Lowe, Stockdale, Conway, Zebo.

Of these players it feels like Hume is the only player selected on form rather than reputation.

Aki & Henshaw have just come back from the Lions, Keenan is in fine form. Larmour/Lowe/Earls/Ringrose have all had good showings at the start of the season.

You can't pick a test squad on 'form' alone!

[Morf]

We can agree to disagree I suppose but I see the form for a player to get in green and what is considered adequate to stay in green. These look quite different to me.

Obviously not form alone where a test squad seems to be picked with 'form' 3rd or 4th consideration.

[dropkick]

Mack Hansen could be a bolter. Sheehan is the obvious new cap.


I think they should have a training squad again with the likes of Doak, Healy, Ahern, Osborne etc.


Looking at Thornleys squad, it would surprise me if Lowe, Stockdale and Larmour were all there.

[ronk]

We can agree to disagree I suppose but I see the form for a player to get in green and what is considered adequate to stay in green. These look quite different to me.

Obviously not form alone where a test squad seems to be picked with 'form' 3rd or 4th consideration.

I dunno. Is a returning Lion considered to be still in form if they're returning after the break? Should the Lions all be dropped?

Who are the form players being passed over? Frawley would be a fair shout but I get why he's not picked for this round.

[CiaranIrl]

I think it's fairly ridiculous to include Fineen Wycherley as a second row. He's 6'3 / 1.93m for christ's sake. He's about the same height as Rhys Ruddock. Munster can play him wherever they want for all I care, but he's not remotely big enough to play in the row at this level. I mean, Tadhg Beirne might not be big enough to cut it at international level as a second row, and he's 3 inches taller than him. At least Ryan Baird has some hope of filling out.

I think this shows just how alarming the drop off in quality is down the depth chart. It's not like there's even an injury crisis.

You can put Henderson and Ryan starting, Beirne at 6 (probably his best position) and then who on the bench even? Roux is gone. Dillane is probably not the answer. Toner is too old. Molony may change as he establishes as a Leinster starter at HC level. Baird is raw but at least worth development time.

Is Kleyn a better call than Wycherly?

Now maybe Ireland could go a level deeper for talent and promote Ahern/Murray/Other early, but maybe a season of provincial rugby is best there.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Our second row depth chart is looking realy, really weak after the top two. The idea that we're one injury away from having Baird or Wycherly play against the All Blacks is alarming. Baird has boat loads of potential, but he's way off that level right now. Wycherly, on the other hand, would be absolutely torn apart.

Incidentally, when I say one injury away - Henderson is currently injured and the other two have pretty dodgy injury records!

[Ruckedtobits]

Delighted to see Ciaran Frawley and Dan Sheehan named in November Squad. Well deserved.

Jamie Osbourne also included for the Camp experience with Thomas Ahern. Surprised that Doak isn't included in the same category.

Harry Byrne will also be happy to be included without Burns or Carty.

18 Leinster players plus Osborne in a 38-man Squad.

[D4surfer]

IRELAND Autumn Nations Series Squad 2021
Backs (18)
Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 31 caps
Robert Baloucoune (Ulster/Enniskillen) 1 cap
Harry Byrne (Leinster/Lansdowne) 1 cap
Joey Carbery (Munster/Clontarf) 24 caps
Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon) 3 caps
Andrew Conway (Munster/Garryowen) 25 caps
Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster) 93 caps
Ciaran Frawley (Leinster/UCD)*
Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 10 caps
James Hume (Ulster/Banbridge) 1 cap
Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 13 caps
Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 30 caps
James Lowe (Leinster) 6 caps
Stuart McCloskey (Ulster/Bangor) 5 caps
Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 89 caps
Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 34 caps
Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 99 caps CAPTAIN
Simon Zebo (Munster/Cork Constitution) 35 caps

Forwards (20)
Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) 5 caps
Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers) 16 caps
Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne) 22 caps
Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 20 caps
Gavin Coombes (Munster/Young Munster) 2 caps
Ultan Dillane (Connacht/Corinthians) 19 caps
Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 9 caps
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 49 caps
Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 109 caps
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 63 caps
Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 22 caps
Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 13 caps
Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians) 45 caps
Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 76 caps
Tom O’Toole (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 1 cap
Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 37 caps
James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 37 caps
Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne)*
Nick Timoney (Ulster/Banbridge) 1 cap
Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 32 caps

*denotes uncapped player

Development Players
Thomas Ahern (Munster/Shannon)
Jamie Osborne (Leinster/Naas)

[D4surfer]

Henshaw's injury must be worse than we thought.

Geraard was very close with Frawley instead of Henshaw and Dillane instead of Wycherley.

[wixfjord]

Not a huge amount to quibble in that.

Great to see Frawley in there, hope he gets a start.

Likewise Sheehan, although it will be interesting to see what happens if Kelleher/Herring pick up a knock. Will they bench Sheehan against a top test side?

Timoney deserves his shot too.

Dillane is probably the one I'd have most issue with. Not sure he deserves to be there ahead of Moloney/Wycherly.

If we can get a pack of Porter, Kelleher, Furlong, Hendo, Ryan, Beirne, VDF, Doris out against the ABs it'll be fascinating to see.

[wixfjord]

Also, what a brilliant story Jamie Osborne has. Great to see him there.

[blockhead]

So Harry but no Ross. Awkward!
No Billy burns either.

[blockhead]

So Harry but no Ross. Awkward!
No Billy burns either.

Or Carty ftm

[Lock9541]

At this stage Ross Byrne should just move to France because he’s not in the Ireland team and he’d get a lot more game time in the Top14 and getting paid a lot more money in France. I know game time isn’t an issue with him at Leinster but he’s not the first choice out half at Leinster and he would be first choice in a lot of the Top14 teams and would be getting paid more money. Farrell clearly doesn’t rate him so why is he still playing in Ireland?