Women's Rugby World Cup

[hugonaut]

Going to be cavernous. At least in Donnybrook you can make it luck 1/2 full by letting people in for a fiver.
Start of a new era though, the only way is up, some good young players in that squad so here's hoping.


Parsons not on show at the World Cup is a real shame though.

I don't think it is the start of the new era, I think Griggs is still on charge for these two. [source: https://www.the42.ie/adam-griggs-to-ste ... 5-Oct2021/ ]

[Dave Cahill]

Is it a full time role or still part time?

[blockhead]

Going to be cavernous. At least in Donnybrook you can make it look 1/2 full by letting people in for a fiver.
Start of a new era though, the only way is up, some good young players in that squad so here's hoping.


Parsons not on show at the World Cup is a real shame though.

I don't think it is the start of the new era, I think Griggs is still on charge for these two. [source: https://www.the42.ie/adam-griggs-to-ste ... 5-Oct2021/ ]

Yeah of course, I forgot. The new era really begins next spring. These 2 games coming up couldn't be more lame duck.

[Dave Cahill]

Question of the Day

Can Eddy weather the storm of his own creation or will his mate throw him to the wolves.

Answers on the back of a slurry spreader.

[the spoofer]

Question of the Day

Can Eddy weather the storm of his own creation or will his mate throw him to the wolves.

Answers on the back of a slurry spreader.

He's dust. Hacks and women have him in their sights.

[blockhead]

It's an awful pity that a brilliant young player like Parsons won't be showcasing her talent at the RWC.
That said, the players fcuked up! Spain, Italy and Scotland are teams that they have consistently beaten in the past, and by beaten, I mean hammered. They were showing good form over the last 2 years with new players like Parsons, Wall, Djougang, Higgins and Dane really coming of age. Finding a 10 of international standard has been a problem though and that showed on the scoreboard in nearly everygame.
If they can't take or are unwilling to face outside criticism then are they ever going to improve?
They'd be in a Pool now with Canada, USA and Japan if they hadn't messed up. The governing body is never perfect but the players are the ones on the pitch and they are the ones that lost to Spain and Scotland, a very poor effort.

[Dexter]

It's an awful pity that a brilliant young player like Parsons won't be showcasing her talent at the RWC.
That said, the players fcuked up! Spain, Italy and Scotland are teams that they have consistently beaten in the past, and by beaten, I mean hammered. They were showing good form over the last 2 years with new players like Parsons, Wall, Djougang, Higgins and Dane really coming of age. Finding a 10 of international standard has been a problem though and that showed on the scoreboard in nearly everygame.
If they can't take or are unwilling to face outside criticism then are they ever going to improve?
They'd be in a Pool now with Canada, USA and Japan if they hadn't messed up. The governing body is never perfect but the players are the ones on the pitch and they are the ones that lost to Spain and Scotland, a very poor effort.

Underperformance always comes back to the coach, or higher up, at some stage though.

[Twist]

It's an awful pity that a brilliant young player like Parsons won't be showcasing her talent at the RWC.
That said, the players fcuked up! Spain, Italy and Scotland are teams that they have consistently beaten in the past, and by beaten, I mean hammered. They were showing good form over the last 2 years with new players like Parsons, Wall, Djougang, Higgins and Dane really coming of age. Finding a 10 of international standard has been a problem though and that showed on the scoreboard in nearly everygame.
If they can't take or are unwilling to face outside criticism then are they ever going to improve?
They'd be in a Pool now with Canada, USA and Japan if they hadn't messed up. The governing body is never perfect but the players are the ones on the pitch and they are the ones that lost to Spain and Scotland, a very poor effort.

Underperformance always comes back to the coach, or higher up, at some stage though.

I can't agree with that, and I wouldn't like to know players were thinking that either

[Dexter]

It's an awful pity that a brilliant young player like Parsons won't be showcasing her talent at the RWC.
That said, the players fcuked up! Spain, Italy and Scotland are teams that they have consistently beaten in the past, and by beaten, I mean hammered. They were showing good form over the last 2 years with new players like Parsons, Wall, Djougang, Higgins and Dane really coming of age. Finding a 10 of international standard has been a problem though and that showed on the scoreboard in nearly everygame.
If they can't take or are unwilling to face outside criticism then are they ever going to improve?
They'd be in a Pool now with Canada, USA and Japan if they hadn't messed up. The governing body is never perfect but the players are the ones on the pitch and they are the ones that lost to Spain and Scotland, a very poor effort.

Underperformance always comes back to the coach, or higher up, at some stage though.

I can't agree with that, and I wouldn't like to know players were thinking that either

Fair enough, but consistent underperformance (which is what I meant), always eventually gets blamed on the coaches and senior management. FACT.

[dropkick]

Question of the Day

Can Eddy weather the storm of his own creation or will his mate throw him to the wolves.

Answers on the back of a slurry spreader.

He's dust. Hacks and women have him in their sights.

It's like they're feeding off each other. They lost to SPAIN and should have taken responsibility for it but no it's everyone else's fault and they are victims.

[riocard911]

Seems to me there's issues there we know very little about. Interesting to hear Darce yesterday on OTB essentially saying quite forcefully, that the buck stops at Nucifora's door, and giving out again about the lack of transparency involved in the "review" of the men's team crashing out of RWC at the quarter-final again. Delighted to see it was Cliodha Moloney stuck her head above the parapet. Where there's trouble, the hooker is invariably involved!!!

[ronk]

I think the players are serving themselves badly. Women’s rugby in Ireland isn’t self sufficient in terms of funding so they need the IRFU. Instead of moving forward they are getting dragged into infighting and setting back efforts to grow their brand.

The 7s have had disappointments but they don’t amplify them because that alienates their audience and risks their support from the IRFU.

They can make some short wins in the media but they’re depending on unreliable friends. There are plenty of people who’ll pile on the IRFU but won’t watch them or care what happens to them. Remember that Connacht improved after the IRFU took over direct control, the chip on their shoulder did nothing for them.

[hugonaut]

Question of the Day

Can Eddy weather the storm of his own creation or will his mate throw him to the wolves.

Answers on the back of a slurry spreader.

He's dust. Hacks and women have him in their sights.

It's like they're feeding off each other. They lost to SPAIN and should have taken responsibility for it but no it's everyone else's fault and they are victims.

I think it's a mixed group. Kathryn Dane for example:

“I personally feel that’s a bit of a cop-out on our behalf, that we’re not taking enough accountability for it all. Behind closed doors, as players, we have done our de-brief. We have acknowledged our mistakes and we are really keen to take responsibility. Because we were at the wheel in Italy. And a lot of those mistakes that were made, it was up to us to adapt and change our plans. So I do feel bad that Griggsy has taken an awful lot of the heat. But as players we are taking that responsibility. I know there hasn’t been anything public about that but behind closed doors, we are.”

[source: https://www.the42.ie/kathryn-dane-5589822-Nov2021/ ]

In any group, you're going to have a mix of circumspect individuals and loudmouths. The loudmouths are obviously going to make more noise, and social media amplifies that noise, because journalists [in this case rugby journalists] have come to massively rely on it for their jobs. So it goes from one person making a smart-arsed comment on Twitter to the national media within the space of a day.

The people the IRFU send out also seem to shoot themselves in the foot more often than you would expect. First there was Griggs not being able to answer a pretty simple question about the chain of command in Irish women's rugby [source: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4542889 ] and then you had Eddy's recent interview [transcript here: https://www.the42.ie/anthony-eddy-women ... 3-Nov2021/ ] where so many of his answers were vague and non-committal. If you read that interview knowing little about rugby, say from a GAA or hockey background, you wouldn't come away thinking that the guy was on top of his brief.

The practicalities of accepting blame – 'the blame game' – and how spoken sentiments have knock-on effects is not confined to women's rugby in Ireland by any means. It has become a pretty trite thing that coaches in the NFL say all the time. I'm sure quite a few people are familiar with it: variations of "That's on me" or "I've got to do a better job." They have become formulae to show that you're a big man who accepts responsibilities. But it seems obvious that they're empty sentiments and that the coaches in question basically want the praise for 'taking responsibility' with one pat sentence and not the repercussions or follow-on questions that should logically follow. "Well if you made significant mistakes in play-calling or personnel deployment again, why aren't you handing some of these responsibilities over to your assistant coaches? Are they not even as good as you in roles in which you make mistakes in pressure situations? Are you wary about giving them too much exposure?"

I have been really impressed by Niamh Briggs' comments; she has written a couple of articles which I basically agreed with across all her points. In my opinion, very worth a read: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 61821.html

She's quite a hard-nosed commentator, and womens' rugby needs more of that. And unfortunately at this moment it seems that it can only come from women commentators, because there are too many people around the women's game who label any criticism from a male commentator [as in a person who makes a comment, rather than a broadcaster] as motivated primarily by sexism.

[hugonaut]

Seems to me there's issues there we know very little about. Interesting to hear Darce yesterday on OTB essentially saying quite forcefully, that the buck stops at Nucifora's door, and giving out again about the lack of transparency involved in the "review" of the men's team crashing out of RWC at the quarter-final again. Delighted to see it was Cliodha Moloney stuck her head above the parapet. Where there's trouble, the hooker is invariably involved!!!

If I was in the IRFU, I wouldn't publish the RWC19 report to the public either.

If the report is going to be accurate and hopefully useful to the people who make key decisions about preparing for the next tournament, it is going to contain hurtful criticism and private information that the public has no right to know. We may be interested, but we've no entitlement to it.

Many people involved would only speak frankly under the conditions that what they have said has a very limited readership. If they know it's going to be widely published, they'll give a sanitised version which is of little benefit to anybody and still costs the same to conduct.

[Experimental]

Niamh Briggs is a real breath of fresh air as a pundit, shes harsh but fair, and tells it exactly as it is.

[Dave Cahill]

If I was in the IRFU, I wouldn't publish the RWC19 report to the public either.

If the report is going to be accurate and hopefully useful to the people who make key decisions about preparing for the next tournament, it is going to contain hurtful criticism and private information that the public has no right to know. We may be interested, but we've no entitlement to it.

Many people involved would only speak frankly under the conditions that what they have said has a very limited readership. If they know it's going to be widely published, they'll give a sanitised version which is of little benefit to anybody and still costs the same to conduct.

If they aren't going to publish them (which is fine) then they don't get to hide behind them. One of the main reasons why reviews are published is as a sign of commitment to act upon their findings. Without that commitment it's just a dead tree. They don't even have to publish the review, just the future actions and goals.

Does anyone, for example, imagine that the review of the 2017 WRWC campaign didn't focus, at least in part, on failures in coaching. So what was the outcome? Make the next coach a part time position!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Quite surprised at the lack of support for the players speaking out here. I'm not sure why the focus is on the world cup qualifiers, the backlash to Eddy is clearly about a lot more than that.

Firstly, his attitude stinks, that's as clear as day to me. Secondly, I would look at something like the women's game not being given elite status and players having to change with rats running around recently. If you're operating in a landscape like that then I don't think you look at world cup qualifiers in isolation and question performances without looking at the bigger picture. Now I don't know the ins and outs of his role, but for things like that to be happening and then for him to put the blame on amateur players who have to operate in that environment is a disgrace. His attitude seems to be that the players have been given all the tools and f%~ked up, which is quite clearly bullshit.

It appears that Nucifora took Moloney to task about her tweet, did he also take Eddy to task for blaming the players? I think it's brilliant that so many of the players are speaking out. They obviously think change is needed and given how things have gone over the last 4 and a half years or so it's good that it's happening now. That interview deserved the reaction that it got, he has to go.

[Oldschool]

Question of the Day

Can Eddy weather the storm of his own creation or will his mate throw him to the wolves.

Answers on the back of a slurry spreader.

He's dust. Hacks and women have him in their sights.

This is not a rhetorical question.
Was this your typical Aussie calling a spade a spade in less than PC terms and it's time to shoot the messenger.
In other words was it how he said it that was the problem rather than what he said.
The players, on the face of it, dropped the ball in a game they should have won or did they?
The menfolk do it regularly in the RWC arene so perhaps there's a common theme here.

[the spoofer]

He's dust. Hacks and women have him in their sights.

It's like they're feeding off each other. They lost to SPAIN and should have taken responsibility for it but no it's everyone else's fault and they are victims.

I think it's a mixed group. Kathryn Dane for example:

“I personally feel that’s a bit of a cop-out on our behalf, that we’re not taking enough accountability for it all. Behind closed doors, as players, we have done our de-brief. We have acknowledged our mistakes and we are really keen to take responsibility. Because we were at the wheel in Italy. And a lot of those mistakes that were made, it was up to us to adapt and change our plans. So I do feel bad that Griggsy has taken an awful lot of the heat. But as players we are taking that responsibility. I know there hasn’t been anything public about that but behind closed doors, we are.”

[source: https://www.the42.ie/kathryn-dane-5589822-Nov2021/ ]

In any group, you're going to have a mix of circumspect individuals and loudmouths. The loudmouths are obviously going to make more noise, and social media amplifies that noise, because journalists [in this case rugby journalists] have come to massively rely on it for their jobs. So it goes from one person making a smart-arsed comment on Twitter to the national media within the space of a day.

The people the IRFU send out also seem to shoot themselves in the foot more often than you would expect. First there was Griggs not being able to answer a pretty simple question about the chain of command in Irish women's rugby [source: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4542889 ] and then you had Eddy's recent interview [transcript here: https://www.the42.ie/anthony-eddy-women ... 3-Nov2021/ ] where so many of his answers were vague and non-committal. If you read that interview knowing little about rugby, say from a GAA or hockey background, you wouldn't come away thinking that the guy was on top of his brief.

The practicalities of accepting blame – 'the blame game' – and how spoken sentiments have knock-on effects is not confined to women's rugby in Ireland by any means. It has become a pretty trite thing that coaches in the NFL say all the time. I'm sure quite a few people are familiar with it: variations of "That's on me" or "I've got to do a better job." They have become formulae to show that you're a big man who accepts responsibilities. But it seems obvious that they're empty sentiments and that the coaches in question basically want the praise for 'taking responsibility' with one pat sentence and not the repercussions or follow-on questions that should logically follow. "Well if you made significant mistakes in play-calling or personnel deployment again, why aren't you handing some of these responsibilities over to your assistant coaches? Are they not even as good as you in roles in which you make mistakes in pressure situations? Are you wary about giving them too much exposure?"

I have been really impressed by Niamh Briggs' comments; she has written a couple of articles which I basically agreed with across all her points. In my opinion, very worth a read: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 61821.html

She's quite a hard-nosed commentator, and womens' rugby needs more of that. And unfortunately at this moment it seems that it can only come from women commentators, because there are too many people around the women's game who label any criticism from a male commentator [as in a person who makes a comment, rather than a broadcaster] as motivated primarily by sexism.

One of my least favourite rugby journalists is certainly trying to throw fuel on the fire. The fact that he seems to dislike the game while professing a love for a Dublin soccer team makes me think that he might not have Irish rugby's best interests at heart.

[riocard911]

I dunno, to whom the reference is above, but certainly Paul Kimmage didn't cover himself in glory last weekend, essentially saying no one on the outside had the right to judge David Tweed. The daughter the very next day blew that notion to smithereens, fair play to her!!!