Ireland 2021-22

[sunshiner1]

As we're all in for an extended Covid stay what would be your Wolfhounds team to play this year?

1. Andy Warwick
2. Dave Heffernan
3. Keynan Knox
4. Niall Murray
5. Jean Kleyn
6. Nick Timoney
7. Will Connors
8. Paul Boyle
9. Caelin Blade
10. Harry Bryne
11. Mack Hanson
12. Ciaran Frawley
13. James Hume
14. Ethan McIIroy
15. Mike Lowry

[hugonaut]

Forwards [1-8]: Jack McGrath, Dan Sheehan, Tom O'Toole, Ryan Baird, Niall Murray, Dan Leavy, Nick Timoney, Gavin Coombes;
Backs [9-15]: John Cooney, Harry Byrne, Jacob Stockdale, Stuart McCloskey, James Hume, Jordan Larmour, Mack Hansen;
Subs [16-23]: Pete Dooley, Dave Heffernan, Marty Moore, Tom Ahern, Will Connors, Craig Casey, Ciaran Frawley, Robert Baloucoune.

[sunshiner1]

by hugonaut » December 27th, 2021, 12:56 pm
Forwards [1-8]: Jack McGrath, Dan Sheehan, Tom O'Toole, Ryan Baird, Niall Murray, Dan Leavy, Nick Timoney, Gavin Coombes;
Backs [9-15]: John Cooney, Harry Byrne, Jacob Stockdale, Stuart McCloskey, James Hume, Jordan Larmour, Mack Hansen;
Subs [16-23]: Pete Dooley, Dave Heffernan, Marty Moore, Tom Ahern, Will Connors, Craig Casey, Ciaran Frawley, Robert Baloucoune.

Interesting team. No Knox. Is it because you think he's too inexperienced? Also why Ahern over Thornbury? Poor Lowry can't even make the Wolfhounds.

[leinsterforever]

Cooney ain't gonna be involved as long as Sexton's there, it seems.

1. Josh Wycherley
2. Dan Sheehan
3. Tom O'Toole
4. Thomas Ahern
5. Ryan Baird
6. David McCann
7. Nick Timoney
8. Gavin Coombes
9. Nathan Doak
10. Harry Byrne
11. Mack Hansen
12. Tom Daly
13. James Hume
14. Tommy O'Brien
15. Jimmy O'Brien

16. Dave Heffernan
17. Peter Dooley
18. Marty Moore
19. Jack Dunne
20. Max Deegan
21. Caolin Blade
22. Ciarán Frawley
23. Shane Daly

[hugonaut]

by hugonaut » December 27th, 2021, 12:56 pm
Forwards [1-8]: Jack McGrath, Dan Sheehan, Tom O'Toole, Ryan Baird, Niall Murray, Dan Leavy, Nick Timoney, Gavin Coombes;
Backs [9-15]: John Cooney, Harry Byrne, Jacob Stockdale, Stuart McCloskey, James Hume, Jordan Larmour, Mack Hansen;
Subs [16-23]: Pete Dooley, Dave Heffernan, Marty Moore, Tom Ahern, Will Connors, Craig Casey, Ciaran Frawley, Robert Baloucoune.

Interesting team. No Knox. Is it because you think he's too inexperienced? Also why Ahern over Thornbury? Poor Lowry can't even make the Wolfhounds.

Lowry is a munchkin. Put him in a test match and watch teams rain bombs on a 170cm fullback against 190cm+ outside backs.

I don't think much about Knox at all, he never plays.
> Tom O'Toole [b. Sep 1998] - 68 [25+43] games /2594mins for Ulster
> Keynan Knox [b. Apr 1999] - 18 [5+13] games/562 mins for Munster

Ahern is an athletic marvel. He's absolutely wasted in Munster, he should be telling his agent to get him a move to somewhere where he actually might get a run.

EDIT: I'm serious about Ahern – he's so far behind where he should be and where Ireland need him to be. He was born in February '20 and Ryan Baird was born in July '99: Baird is only seven months older than him. Baird has played 40 pro games [including 6 test matches] and over 1820 mins of pro rugby while Ahern has played in 9 pro games and 320 mins.

[berliner]

by hugonaut » December 27th, 2021, 12:56 pm
Forwards [1-8]: Jack McGrath, Dan Sheehan, Tom O'Toole, Ryan Baird, Niall Murray, Dan Leavy, Nick Timoney, Gavin Coombes;
Backs [9-15]: John Cooney, Harry Byrne, Jacob Stockdale, Stuart McCloskey, James Hume, Jordan Larmour, Mack Hansen;
Subs [16-23]: Pete Dooley, Dave Heffernan, Marty Moore, Tom Ahern, Will Connors, Craig Casey, Ciaran Frawley, Robert Baloucoune.

Interesting team. No Knox. Is it because you think he's too inexperienced? Also why Ahern over Thornbury? Poor Lowry can't even make the Wolfhounds.

Lowry is a munchkin. Put him in a test match and watch teams rain bombs on a 170cm fullback against 190cm+ outside backs.

I don't think much about Knox at all, he never plays.
> Tom O'Toole [b. Sep 1998] - 68 [25+43] games /2594mins for Ulster
> Keynan Knox [b. Apr 1999] - 18 [5+13] games/562 mins for Munster

Ahern is an athletic marvel. He's absolutely wasted in Munster, he should be telling his agent to get him a move to somewhere where he actually might get a run.

EDIT: I'm serious about Ahern – he's so far behind where he should be and where Ireland need him to be. He was born in February '20 and Ryan Baird was born in July '99: Baird is only seven months older than him. Baird has played 40 pro games [including 6 test matches] and over 1820 mins of pro rugby while Ahern has played in 9 pro games and 320 mins.

As expected, when Jenkins finally made his debut against Castres, he came on as a lock, not at six as critics of his signing were assured would be his role at the time. His contract was for one year, let's see if that holds. The consensus seems to be that Snyman will not be re-signed (not sure if this is the right decision for Munster). If they both leave, then there will be space for Ahern.

If not, could you imagine him fitting in at Connacht or Ulster? As regards the former, it would be relevant to know how Gavin Thornbury's recovery is going. My recollection is that he has had repeated problems with the shoulder and I assumed it had blown up again and been operated on in May or thereabouts, but AFAIK there has been nonofficial statement or informed journalism on this. Haven't seen enough of Ahern to have an opinion as to whether he would complement the remaining Connacht locks but Dillane's departure leaves a hole.. Dowling and Murray are going well, difficult to assess Fifita based on the little we've seen so far.

Have players ever moved from Munster to Leinster (Cronin doesn't count)?

[Barry]

Interesting team. No Knox. Is it because you think he's too inexperienced? Also why Ahern over Thornbury? Poor Lowry can't even make the Wolfhounds.

Lowry is a munchkin. Put him in a test match and watch teams rain bombs on a 170cm fullback against 190cm+ outside backs.

I don't think much about Knox at all, he never plays.
> Tom O'Toole [b. Sep 1998] - 68 [25+43] games /2594mins for Ulster
> Keynan Knox [b. Apr 1999] - 18 [5+13] games/562 mins for Munster

Ahern is an athletic marvel. He's absolutely wasted in Munster, he should be telling his agent to get him a move to somewhere where he actually might get a run.

EDIT: I'm serious about Ahern – he's so far behind where he should be and where Ireland need him to be. He was born in February '20 and Ryan Baird was born in July '99: Baird is only seven months older than him. Baird has played 40 pro games [including 6 test matches] and over 1820 mins of pro rugby while Ahern has played in 9 pro games and 320 mins.

As expected, when Jenkins finally made his debut against Castres, he came on as a lock, not at six as critics of his signing were assured would be his role at the time. His contract was for one year, let's see if that holds. The consensus seems to be that Snyman will not be re-signed (not sure if this is the right decision for Munster). If they both leave, then there will be space for Ahern.

If not, could you imagine him fitting in at Connacht or Ulster? As regards the former, it would be relevant to know how Gavin Thornbury's recovery is going. My recollection is that he has had repeated problems with the shoulder and I assumed it had blown up again and been operated on in May or thereabouts, but AFAIK there has been nonofficial statement or informed journalism on this. Haven't seen enough of Ahern to have an opinion as to whether he would complement the remaining Connacht locks but Dillane's departure leaves a hole.. Dowling and Murray are going well, difficult to assess Fifita based on the little we've seen so far.

Have players ever moved from Munster to Leinster (Cronin doesn't count)?

Trevor Hogan & Stephen Keogh

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

[sunshiner1]

Have Munster ever brought through a second row on purpose? DOC, POC and MOD were before the academy and Donnacha Ryan was nearly 28 before getting any serious gametime. All the serious contenders they've had over the years like Madigan, Bradshaw-Ryan have left and Ahern has barely played at all.

[sunshiner1]

by berliner

If not, could you imagine him fitting in at Connacht or Ulster? As regards the former, it would be relevant to know how Gavin Thornbury's recovery is going. My recollection is that he has had repeated problems with the shoulder and I assumed it had blown up again and been operated on in May or thereabouts, but AFAIK there has been nonofficial statement or informed journalism on this. Haven't seen enough of Ahern to have an opinion as to whether he would complement the remaining Connacht locks but Dillane's departure leaves a hole.. Dowling and Murray are going well, difficult to assess Fifita based on the little we've seen so far.

Fifita is meant to be leaving Connacht as well which puts Connacht down two locks. Think Ahern would thrive up in Connacht but up to him to make the move.

[ronk]

Leinster could be a destination if Ahern was moving.

But Munster shouldn't be allowed hire a coach who wouldn't make Munster the right place for Ahern.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Interesting team. No Knox. Is it because you think he's too inexperienced? Also why Ahern over Thornbury? Poor Lowry can't even make the Wolfhounds.

Lowry is a munchkin. Put him in a test match and watch teams rain bombs on a 170cm fullback against 190cm+ outside backs.

I don't think much about Knox at all, he never plays.
> Tom O'Toole [b. Sep 1998] - 68 [25+43] games /2594mins for Ulster
> Keynan Knox [b. Apr 1999] - 18 [5+13] games/562 mins for Munster

Ahern is an athletic marvel. He's absolutely wasted in Munster, he should be telling his agent to get him a move to somewhere where he actually might get a run.

EDIT: I'm serious about Ahern – he's so far behind where he should be and where Ireland need him to be. He was born in February '20 and Ryan Baird was born in July '99: Baird is only seven months older than him. Baird has played 40 pro games [including 6 test matches] and over 1820 mins of pro rugby while Ahern has played in 9 pro games and 320 mins.

As expected, when Jenkins finally made his debut against Castres, he came on as a lock, not at six as critics of his signing were assured would be his role at the time. His contract was for one year, let's see if that holds. The consensus seems to be that Snyman will not be re-signed (not sure if this is the right decision for Munster). If they both leave, then there will be space for Ahern.

If not, could you imagine him fitting in at Connacht or Ulster? As regards the former, it would be relevant to know how Gavin Thornbury's recovery is going. My recollection is that he has had repeated problems with the shoulder and I assumed it had blown up again and been operated on in May or thereabouts, but AFAIK there has been nonofficial statement or informed journalism on this. Haven't seen enough of Ahern to have an opinion as to whether he would complement the remaining Connacht locks but Dillane's departure leaves a hole.. Dowling and Murray are going well, difficult to assess Fifita based on the little we've seen so far.

Have players ever moved from Munster to Leinster (Cronin doesn't count)?

- Stephen Keogh
- Trevor Hogan
there's two

[deco]

Lowry is a munchkin. Put him in a test match and watch teams rain bombs on a 170cm fullback against 190cm+ outside backs.

I don't think much about Knox at all, he never plays.
> Tom O'Toole [b. Sep 1998] - 68 [25+43] games /2594mins for Ulster
> Keynan Knox [b. Apr 1999] - 18 [5+13] games/562 mins for Munster

Ahern is an athletic marvel. He's absolutely wasted in Munster, he should be telling his agent to get him a move to somewhere where he actually might get a run.

EDIT: I'm serious about Ahern – he's so far behind where he should be and where Ireland need him to be. He was born in February '20 and Ryan Baird was born in July '99: Baird is only seven months older than him. Baird has played 40 pro games [including 6 test matches] and over 1820 mins of pro rugby while Ahern has played in 9 pro games and 320 mins.

As expected, when Jenkins finally made his debut against Castres, he came on as a lock, not at six as critics of his signing were assured would be his role at the time. His contract was for one year, let's see if that holds. The consensus seems to be that Snyman will not be re-signed (not sure if this is the right decision for Munster). If they both leave, then there will be space for Ahern.

If not, could you imagine him fitting in at Connacht or Ulster? As regards the former, it would be relevant to know how Gavin Thornbury's recovery is going. My recollection is that he has had repeated problems with the shoulder and I assumed it had blown up again and been operated on in May or thereabouts, but AFAIK there has been nonofficial statement or informed journalism on this. Haven't seen enough of Ahern to have an opinion as to whether he would complement the remaining Connacht locks but Dillane's departure leaves a hole.. Dowling and Murray are going well, difficult to assess Fifita based on the little we've seen so far.

Have players ever moved from Munster to Leinster (Cronin doesn't count)?

- Stephen Keogh
- Trevor Hogan
there's two

Nick McCarthy made the move (back)
Flake (in his dreams)
Denis Leamy (coaching/poaching role)
Reddan (via Wasps)

[cormac]

Liam Toland
Brian O'Meara
Barry Everitt

Few others who took more circuitous route like John Fogarty, Mike Ross and Paul Wallace

[Oldschoolsocks]

Liam Toland
Brian O'Meara
Barry Everitt

Few others who took more circuitous route like John Fogarty, Mike Ross and Paul Wallace

I forgot the O'Meara was capped for Munster before he came up.

[hugonaut]

Have Munster ever brought through a second row on purpose? DOC, POC and MOD were before the academy and Donnacha Ryan was nearly 28 before getting any serious gametime. All the serious contenders they've had over the years like Madigan, Bradshaw-Ryan have left and Ahern has barely played at all.

Very interesting question.

I think we've all read articles with a variation of 'Ireland just doesn't produce many players of that stature' and yet there are three really big Munster second rows playing in ProD2: Madigan [27, Beziers] is 199cm/130kg, Frank Bradshaw Ryan [26, Nevers] is 205cm/119kg and Darren O'Shea [29, Vannes] is 206cm/117kg.

You read or hear about these guys being injury prone as the reason they never progressed, and then check on how they're doing in France ... and they're playing 20+ games per season.

Erasmus shipped Madigan off at the end of the 2016-17 season before he was 23 and let Dave Foley go as a 28/29 year old ... at the same time as they lost Donnacha Ryan to Racing, where he would go on to play 80+ matches in the next four seasons. There was probably nothing they could do to keep Ryan because he wanted to leave, but letting two other second rows go at the same time seemed odd then and still seems odd now. Four out of Munster's six current second rows were bought in [Beirne, Kleyn, Snyman and Jenkins] and only one of the other two [Wycherly and Ahern] actually plays games for them.

I've said it before and I will say it again: Munster's inability to produce players capable of playing test rugby for Ireland is a big problem for Irish rugby. So much money goes in from the IRFU and so few players come out. Only six Munster players played in the Autumn Internationals – Beirne, Conway, Carbery, O'Mahony, Murray, Earls – and three of them are from Leinster, were in the Leinster academy and were Leinster-contracted players before moving to Munster.

[sunshiner1]

Frank Bradshaw Ryan is been linked with a move back to Ireland via Connacht. Would be interesting to see if it happens. I guarantee you if he plays remotely well for the Westies Munster will be trying to sign him like they did Dillane before.

[ronk]

Have Munster ever brought through a second row on purpose? DOC, POC and MOD were before the academy and Donnacha Ryan was nearly 28 before getting any serious gametime. All the serious contenders they've had over the years like Madigan, Bradshaw-Ryan have left and Ahern has barely played at all.

Billy Holland.

Not on purpose of course. I just don’t think enough attention is drawn to the Munster 2nd team guys who scratched out very respectable careers and cap counts without much recognition or expectation.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Billy Holland was about the level o Mick O'Driscall - hardly international class

[hugonaut]

Billy Holland was about the level o Mick O'Driscall - hardly international class

Both very solid players and leaders for their provinces though. Not everyone has the talent or physical attributes to be a 50-cap international. Micko had a very long and successful career for Munster and played well enough to be voted by his team-mates as Munster Player of the Year in 2009-10. Billy Holland is a class act down to his boots. Those guys gave an awful lot to their province.

[sunshiner1]

by hugonaut

Not everyone has the talent or physical attributes to be a 50-cap international. Micko had a very long and successful career for Munster and played well enough to be voted by his team-mates as Munster Player of the Year in 2009-10.

MOD is the reason why Munster won the Celtic League one year. I think 2010/11? DOC and POC barley played a game in the league and it was up to MOD to lead the team which he did with aplomb. He was the type of player most teams would give their right arm for.