Ireland 2021-22

[Fan with smartphone]

Getting dropped for being late is a pretty standard punishment in professional sport - and lets face it, Mal and punctuality weren't always bosum buddies.

Cheika dropped Shaggy once for missing a team meeting. Now, the reason he was late was because his flight was delayed coming back from the Six Nations launch in London where he was representing Ireland with Eddie O'Sullivan and Philip Browne! "You know the rules mate".

3 minutes late wasn't the reason for dropping Mal, it was chancer Kidney's excuse for dropping him. Typical f%~kin teacher

Yeah, what have the teachers ever done for us? Harry Williams, Joe Schmidt, Stuart Lancaster.

[Fan with smartphone]

.

[Fan with smartphone]

[wixfjord]

MOK was dropped for missing two meetings in a week.

He admitted himself that Kidney was right to do it and that he wasn't acting in a professional way.

If Zebo did that we'd be up in arms.

MOD was a fine player also. Weird why he still gets such a hard time on here. Axes still being ground over a decade later!

[Oldschoolsocks]

MOK was dropped for missing two meetings in a week.

He admitted himself that Kidney was right to do it and that he wasn't acting in a professional way.

If Zebo did that we'd be up in arms.

MOD was a fine player also. Weird why he still gets such a hard time on here. Axes still being ground over a decade later!

1: Declan Kidney was and is a kunt
2: MOD was a fine player, but nowhere close to Leo or Mal
c: Zebo has a long way to go and a lot of lard to lose before he gets even close to an Ireland team meeting

[fourthirtythree]

the original 'siege gun boot' as coined by Bill McLaren.

Siege guns are large bore mortars that lob enormous motherf%~king ordnance a sort distance over the walls, they aren't long guns. The closest analogy would be a contestable box kick rather than a relieving kick.

That said, for me, a fullback's primary job is to deny the backfield to the opposition, deny them easy exits, and punish turning over the ball when it's kicked at you by running it back or returning it with interest. Which is both positional and commanding as you put it. When Leinster haven't had a commanding player at the back, no matter how many other skills they had, Leinster have struggled. I think for example of Madigan who ran better, tackled better, and kicked better than Kearney but was a distinctly average full back.

[Dave Cahill]

Howitzer would be a more accurate analogy, but does it have the poetry?

[fourthirtythree]

Howitzer would be a more accurate analogy, but does it have the poetry?

Howitzer would be perfect for what people mean when they say siege gun for a full back. A siege gun is a better analogy for a box kick or, a bomb.

[ronk]

I've heard Howitzer used for a kick, Siege Gun for a leg.

A siege gun boot is more about relieving pressure than pinning teams back. So there's that.

[fourthirtythree]

I've heard Howitzer used for a kick, Siege Gun for a leg.

A siege gun boot is more about relieving pressure than pinning teams back. So there's that.

An actual siege gun is an attacking gun. A short range weapon to lob explosives over the walls.* If you are inside the walls you are also using short range weapons on the attackers (who likely aren't as heavily dug in/fortified so don't need to be dug out with gargantuam explosives). It makes no actual sense.


*things like this https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... 04494.jpeg

https://www.posterazzi.com/world-war-1- ... l044ec107/
The biggest ones I've seen from the siege of Verdun were German train mounted monstrosities that looked as wide as they were long.

[leinsterforever]

the original 'siege gun boot' as coined by Bill McLaren.

Siege guns are large bore mortars that lob enormous motherf%~king ordnance a sort distance over the walls, they aren't long guns. The closest analogy would be a contestable box kick rather than a relieving kick.

That said, for me, a fullback's primary job is to deny the backfield to the opposition, deny them easy exits, and punish turning over the ball when it's kicked at you by running it back or returning it with interest. Which is both positional and commanding as you put it. When Leinster haven't had a commanding player at the back, no matter how many other skills they had, Leinster have struggled. I think for example of Madigan who ran better, tackled better, and kicked better than Kearney but was a distinctly average full back.

Really? Was the Paris Gun not a siege gun?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Gun

[brotheroffrank]

Howitzer would be a more accurate analogy, but does it have the poetry?

Bill McLaren was correct, if not up to date; using commentators poetic licence to compare Hastings kicking to Mons Meg and the heady days she roamed over the fields of Roxburgh, Dumbarton and Norham.... [commentators nowadays would be more likely to rhyme about "Hasting's Howitzers" and they'd be retweeted and chuffed with themselves for a bit of alliteration!]

but are we sure this is the correct thread for such a discussion....?

[fourthirtythree]

Really? Was the Paris Gun not a siege gun?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Gun

Good catch!

Two questions:
1 Was Paris besieged at the time?
2 If it was would they have had to use a long range weapon rather than the short range ones that you use during a siege?

[ronk]

but are we sure this is the correct thread for such a discussion....?

We should have got an early chance to see how Lowry manages aerial bombardment tomorrow.

With the knives out for van Graan I think he'll respond with a more open game (I'm assuming he doesn't want to be sacked).

[Oldschoolsocks]

Really? Was the Paris Gun not a siege gun?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Gun

Good catch!

Two questions:
1 Was Paris besieged at the time?
2 If it was would they have had to use a long range weapon rather than the short range ones that you use during a siege?

there's lots of places where the analogy falls down
1: Seige Guns were made of metal, rugby players and rugby boots are not
2: Seige Guns propel their ordinance using an explosion, rugby players and rugby boots do not
3: Seige Guns were (in general) not mobile and had to be brought to their positions my motors or man / horse power. in General Rugby players propel themselves to where they need to be
4: there's loads more of places where it doesn't work

However, Seige Guns were seen as powerful weapons and did hurl projectiles a distance which is what I think the analogy is picking up so imho it's an OK analogy

[Dave Cahill]

Siege Guns didn't have a huge range. In the example of the Paris Gun, considering the elevation of the gun and the altitude the projectile achieved, its range is not impressive. An awful lot of up for not a lot of over

[blockhead]

We need game to talk about soon.
This place is getting weird.

[Oldschoolsocks]

We need game to talk about soon.
This place is getting weird.

for sure,

but just to bring us back to the Seige Gun 'v' Howitzer discussion, I think we can all agree that both types of guns differ from the Rugby Full back in the following ways: (I'm going to be really boring and just re-use some stuff from earlier)
1: the guns are made of metal, not human flesh
2; the guns ordinance is made from metal and not either leather or a synthetic leather(ish?) substitute
3: the guns weigh in excess of 500 kg which is way more heavy than even a really heavyweight fullback like say Simon Zebo
4: lots of other ways like the shape of the guns, and maybe that guns don't have opposable thumbs or something like that

however when it comes to the range of the guns we all agree that the Howitzer's range is like really, really long say maybe like 18,000 metres, which is like 18km or 1,800 rugby filed lengths, where as the Seige Gun range is more like 7,300 metres (8,000 yards) which is only 800 rugby pitches. so we can clearly see that the Seige Gun analogy is much closer to the actual range of a Fullback's relieving kick of maybe 60 or 80 metres (more than twice as close you could almost say)

[blockhead]

Tally ho OSS.
What about the Gatling Gun eh? Now there was a gun, invented in 1862. Nothing like a good war to get people thinking.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Tally ho OSS.
What about the Gatling Gun eh? Now there was a gun, invented in 1862. Nothing like a good war to get people thinking.

nasty piece of kit alright