6 Nations 2021

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mildlyinterested
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by mildlyinterested »

A severe lack of pacey athletes with skills sufficient to be top rugby players coming through the system.

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Oldschool
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Oldschool »

mildlyinterested wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 9:00 pm
A severe lack of pacey athletes with skills sufficient to be top rugby players coming through the system.
Lowe and JGP pulled off a bit of magic late in the second half that was all skill and off the cuff.
Both kids born and grew up in NZ.
Last edited by Oldschool on February 15th, 2021, 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by neiliog93 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 9:00 pm
A severe lack of pacey athletes with skills sufficient to be top rugby players coming through the system.
This is it really. Our athletes aren't good enough. Let's all hope Aaron Sexton can mature quickly.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Fan with smartphone »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 6:59 pm
Oldschool wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 5:48 pm
I'd love to see Lowe go, Gattie would sort his defence out.
Leaving aside his defensive flaws....I think Lowe has an abundance of plus points. I always prefer when he's starting for Leinster.
Can't help but wonder if he is too eager to be the hero in defence being new to the green jersey...instead of holding his mark and trusting the guys on the inside.

In the same breath...you maybe right OldSchool. Who would you have in, instead? and would you like to see him dropped from the leinster team as well? or do we have a special strategy to cover his weaknesses in defence?
Agree with this view. You can make a good defender out of anyone. You can’t make an attacker like Lowe so easily.

I also ageee he is trying to make his mark and be the hero yeah. I really feel there is a theme in a lack of composure like that in a lot of areas in the team. Sexton, when captain, has been too hyped himself, feels like he can’t see the wood for the trees; O’Mahony’s clear out. There’s your captain and vice. The Burns kicks, Burns and Ringrose decisions highlighted by Murray kinsella, even Beirne trying to force turnovers in the lineout, some of the penalties given away (the first day moreso). There’s a real air of desperation at times and I’m not sure there’s the need for it. The best players we’ve had have been good when they’ve done the simple things well. Porter, Henshaw, Beirne, Henderson, Keenan. Just cool the hell down. I think we are good but if we are a good team playing really badly, then we are what we are - bad.

I saw some things I liked in the attacking game. We tried to dummy one way off a scrum then used the double playmaker. That has real potential for us, but it ended in just running out of play this time. I also liked the offloads among a trio of forwards in midfield. It’s something you see a lot out of (I think) the highlanders in super rugby. But we weren’t as sharp doing it as France were defending it at the weekend. But that is the way forward for us I really do believe. We have the skills in the pack to play that way. With the platform out forwards are giving us and wrinkles like that, there is the start of a gameplan but not much more than that. As someone said above our attacking game is less than ineffective - it’s actually hurting us at the minute. I don’t think it would take a whole lot to change that though.

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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Oldschool »

Fan with smartphone wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 9:25 pm
MylesNaGapoleen wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 6:59 pm
Oldschool wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 5:48 pm
I'd love to see Lowe go, Gattie would sort his defence out.
Leaving aside his defensive flaws....I think Lowe has an abundance of plus points. I always prefer when he's starting for Leinster.
Can't help but wonder if he is too eager to be the hero in defence being new to the green jersey...instead of holding his mark and trusting the guys on the inside.

In the same breath...you maybe right OldSchool. Who would you have in, instead? and would you like to see him dropped from the leinster team as well? or do we have a special strategy to cover his weaknesses in defence?
Agree with this view. You can make a good defender out of anyone. You can’t make an attacker like Lowe so easily.

I also ageee he is trying to make his mark and be the hero yeah. I really feel there is a theme in a lack of composure like that in a lot of areas in the team. Sexton, when captain, has been too hyped himself, feels like he can’t see the wood for the trees; O’Mahony’s clear out. There’s your captain and vice. The Burns kicks, Burns and Ringrose decisions highlighted by Murray kinsella, even Beirne trying to force turnovers in the lineout, some of the penalties given away (the first day moreso). There’s a real air of desperation at times and I’m not sure there’s the need for it. The best players we’ve had have been good when they’ve done the simple things well. Porter, Henshaw, Beirne, Henderson, Keenan. Just cool the hell down. I think we are good but if we are a good team playing really badly, then we are what we are - bad.

I saw some things I liked in the attacking game. We tried to dummy one way off a scrum then used the double playmaker. That has real potential for us, but it ended in just running out of play this time. I also liked the offloads among a trio of forwards in midfield. It’s something you see a lot out of (I think) the highlanders in super rugby. But we weren’t as sharp doing it as France were defending it at the weekend. But that is the way forward for us I really do believe. We have the skills in the pack to play that way. With the platform out forwards are giving us and wrinkles like that, there is the start of a gameplan but not much more than that. As someone said above our attacking game is less than ineffective - it’s actually hurting us at the minute. I don’t think it would take a whole lot to change that though.
As I pointed out already, I was suggesting that i wanted Lowe to go on the Lions tour in the hope that Gattie would sort out his defence.
I wasn't suggesting that Lowe should be dropped by either Ireland or Leinster.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Fan with smartphone »

Oldschool wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 9:47 pm
Fan with smartphone wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 9:25 pm
MylesNaGapoleen wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 6:59 pm


Leaving aside his defensive flaws....I think Lowe has an abundance of plus points. I always prefer when he's starting for Leinster.
Can't help but wonder if he is too eager to be the hero in defence being new to the green jersey...instead of holding his mark and trusting the guys on the inside.

In the same breath...you maybe right OldSchool. Who would you have in, instead? and would you like to see him dropped from the leinster team as well? or do we have a special strategy to cover his weaknesses in defence?
Agree with this view. You can make a good defender out of anyone. You can’t make an attacker like Lowe so easily.

I also ageee he is trying to make his mark and be the hero yeah. I really feel there is a theme in a lack of composure like that in a lot of areas in the team. Sexton, when captain, has been too hyped himself, feels like he can’t see the wood for the trees; O’Mahony’s clear out. There’s your captain and vice. The Burns kicks, Burns and Ringrose decisions highlighted by Murray kinsella, even Beirne trying to force turnovers in the lineout, some of the penalties given away (the first day moreso). There’s a real air of desperation at times and I’m not sure there’s the need for it. The best players we’ve had have been good when they’ve done the simple things well. Porter, Henshaw, Beirne, Henderson, Keenan. Just cool the hell down. I think we are good but if we are a good team playing really badly, then we are what we are - bad.

I saw some things I liked in the attacking game. We tried to dummy one way off a scrum then used the double playmaker. That has real potential for us, but it ended in just running out of play this time. I also liked the offloads among a trio of forwards in midfield. It’s something you see a lot out of (I think) the highlanders in super rugby. But we weren’t as sharp doing it as France were defending it at the weekend. But that is the way forward for us I really do believe. We have the skills in the pack to play that way. With the platform out forwards are giving us and wrinkles like that, there is the start of a gameplan but not much more than that. As someone said above our attacking game is less than ineffective - it’s actually hurting us at the minute. I don’t think it would take a whole lot to change that though.
As I pointed out already, I was suggesting that i wanted Lowe to go on the Lions tour in the hope that Gattie would sort out his defence.
I wasn't suggesting that Lowe should be dropped by either Ireland or Leinster.
I know! I was just picking up really on the point about trying to be a hero in defence and how that’s a bit of a theme in the team. All you said about him - I would agree.

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ronk
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by ronk »

Lowe was everywhere. He made a few mistakes but there were some good defensive reads, especially in the ground he covered to appear on the right wing just in time.

To get so close to scoring from that position was phenomenal. Teams are afraid of him.

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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by backrower8 »

leinsterforever wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 7:48 pm
He's a lot faster than Hickie. 10.43 to 11.19.
I played on an SCT in the mid-80s when Derek O’Connor was the 100m & 200m Irish record holder. Referees just called offside against him on kick-a-heads. Our Captain used try and explain that the fastest Irish man in history was playing on the left wing! To little avail.

I also played with James Hancock in 1982 at JCT. He still holds the minor 100m record for 11 seconds in the 100 metres.

#SpeedKings

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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by JB1973 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 9:00 pm
A severe lack of pacey athletes with skills sufficient to be top rugby players coming through the system.
A lot of your forwards appear to be big and athletic with good handling skills, your probably lacking out and out "flyers" in the back 3 but have you really had any of express pace in your side for a while? Even your top end back 3 players guys like Kearney and bowe were not renown for being super quick

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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Flash Gordon »

backrower8 wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 11:46 pm
leinsterforever wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 7:48 pm
He's a lot faster than Hickie. 10.43 to 11.19.
I played on an SCT in the mid-80s when Derek O’Connor was the 100m & 200m Irish record holder. Referees just called offside against him on kick-a-heads. Our Captain used try and explain that the fastest Irish man in history was playing on the left wing! To little avail.

I also played with James Hancock in 1982 at JCT. He still holds the minor 100m record for 11 seconds in the 100 metres.

#SpeedKings

James was one pacey individual. What happened to him after school?
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Flash Gordon »

Oldschool wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 9:03 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 9:00 pm
A severe lack of pacey athletes with skills sufficient to be top rugby players coming through the system.
Lowe and JGP pulled off a bit of magic late in the second half that was all skill and off the cuff.
Both kids born and grew up in NZ.
We see this every week at the RDS to be fair. Coaching and culture is key obviously. The question I guess is whether that's because of the quality of opposition. It's one thing to do it against the Dragons or Zebre and another against England or Saracens. Think Lowe gets away with it a lot more at the RDS because of the quality of the opposition and because he's often bagged a try or 2.

We have to find a way of using him, he's the most naturally gifted attacking wing I've seen at Leinster since Denis Hickie.
Flash ahhhh ahhh, he'll save every one of us

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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Peg Leg »

When Farrell came to Ireland he implemented a rock solid defensive system. I'd like to have that back, please.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Fan with smartphone »

Flash Gordon wrote:
February 16th, 2021, 10:12 am
Oldschool wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 9:03 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 9:00 pm
A severe lack of pacey athletes with skills sufficient to be top rugby players coming through the system.
Lowe and JGP pulled off a bit of magic late in the second half that was all skill and off the cuff.
Both kids born and grew up in NZ.
We see this every week at the RDS to be fair. Coaching and culture is key obviously. The question I guess is whether that's because of the quality of opposition. It's one thing to do it against the Dragons or Zebre and another against England or Saracens. Think Lowe gets away with it a lot more at the RDS because of the quality of the opposition and because he's often bagged a try or 2.

We have to find a way of using him, he's the most naturally gifted attacking wing I've seen at Leinster since Denis Hickie.
It’s worth watching the stuff he and McKenzie were pulling off together with the chiefs. A total joy to watch and it was in games like away to the South African teams - not a poor standard.

There was one kick in the first half and I was on the edge of my seat thinking Lowe will dummy that and work it out. The French player had sold himself to block and Lowe had (I think) Earls outside him. He kicked it out safe and not far outside the 22. It’s a bit depressing that the thing he is getting praised for is a big boot. Same with JGP throwing his hands up when Ringrose kicked that time highlighted above. That’s our best decision maker making a decision that JGP is thinking wtf are you doing.

It’s pretty clear that’s the coaching emphasis, but it made Dulin man of the match. I’m not saying run everything but Jees, as a team let’s cool the hell down and then let the hand brake off a little. We have a better team than this.

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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by FLIP »

Peg Leg wrote:
February 16th, 2021, 10:15 am
When Farrell came to Ireland he implemented a rock solid defensive system. I'd like to have that back, please.
That system was quickly figured out, and was creaking before Joe ended his term.

My personal thoughts are that a large proportion of the coaching staff are people who had success before, but don't have the ability to create new systems which continue that success (Farrell at Sarries/Irish defense, Easterby at Scarlets, Fogerty with Leinster, Mike Catt..?). But then not many coaches can change like that, and even the of ones who do most eventually hit a wall and can't continue their success.

As for who'd replace them? I don't really think there is anyone available who could do the job. We could be seeing Leocaster being past their peak effectiveness already, although I hope they're not.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by JB1973 »

FLIP wrote:
February 16th, 2021, 11:00 am
Peg Leg wrote:
February 16th, 2021, 10:15 am
When Farrell came to Ireland he implemented a rock solid defensive system. I'd like to have that back, please.
That system was quickly figured out, and was creaking before Joe ended his term.

My personal thoughts are that a large proportion of the coaching staff are people who had success before, but don't have the ability to create new systems which continue that success (Farrell at Sarries/Irish defense, Easterby at Scarlets, Fogerty with Leinster, Mike Catt..?). But then not many coaches can change like that, and even the of ones who do most eventually hit a wall and can't continue their success.

As for who'd replace them? I don't really think there is anyone available who could do the job. We could be seeing Leocaster being past their peak effectiveness already, although I hope they're not.

There is one guy who stands out a mile for me, he has a razor sharp rugby brain , was a top class player and would have the respect of everyone in the camp immediately and that is BOD.

Not sure he would want to get involved but I think he would be an ideal backs coach for any rugby side in the world but most of all for Ireland

If not him Glesson at wasps seems to have them playing a very entertaining brand of rugby and scoring lost of trys and he had Salford playing some great rugby when he was part of the set up there

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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by JB1973 »

The French team are self isolating after a staff member has tested positive for covid , worrying news.

Hope he/she is ok

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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Blue not red blood »

JB1973 wrote:
February 16th, 2021, 11:27 am
The French team are self isolating after a staff member has tested positive for covid , worrying news.

Hope he/she is ok
Wayne Barnes ?

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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Flash Gordon »

Fan with smartphone wrote:
February 16th, 2021, 10:36 am
Flash Gordon wrote:
February 16th, 2021, 10:12 am
Oldschool wrote:
February 15th, 2021, 9:03 pm

Lowe and JGP pulled off a bit of magic late in the second half that was all skill and off the cuff.
Both kids born and grew up in NZ.
We see this every week at the RDS to be fair. Coaching and culture is key obviously. The question I guess is whether that's because of the quality of opposition. It's one thing to do it against the Dragons or Zebre and another against England or Saracens. Think Lowe gets away with it a lot more at the RDS because of the quality of the opposition and because he's often bagged a try or 2.

We have to find a way of using him, he's the most naturally gifted attacking wing I've seen at Leinster since Denis Hickie.
It’s worth watching the stuff he and McKenzie were pulling off together with the chiefs. A total joy to watch and it was in games like away to the South African teams - not a poor standard.

There was one kick in the first half and I was on the edge of my seat thinking Lowe will dummy that and work it out. The French player had sold himself to block and Lowe had (I think) Earls outside him. He kicked it out safe and not far outside the 22. It’s a bit depressing that the thing he is getting praised for is a big boot. Same with JGP throwing his hands up when Ringrose kicked that time highlighted above. That’s our best decision maker making a decision that JGP is thinking wtf are you doing.

It’s pretty clear that’s the coaching emphasis, but it made Dulin man of the match. I’m not saying run everything but Jees, as a team let’s cool the hell down and then let the hand brake off a little. We have a better team than this.
Agree with your comment on Lowe. The kick in space in the backfield was sadly symptomatic of the tactics. I have no doubt at Leinster he would have taken off.
Flash ahhhh ahhh, he'll save every one of us

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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by FLIP »

JB1973 wrote:
February 16th, 2021, 11:13 am
FLIP wrote:
February 16th, 2021, 11:00 am
Peg Leg wrote:
February 16th, 2021, 10:15 am
When Farrell came to Ireland he implemented a rock solid defensive system. I'd like to have that back, please.
That system was quickly figured out, and was creaking before Joe ended his term.

My personal thoughts are that a large proportion of the coaching staff are people who had success before, but don't have the ability to create new systems which continue that success (Farrell at Sarries/Irish defense, Easterby at Scarlets, Fogerty with Leinster, Mike Catt..?). But then not many coaches can change like that, and even the of ones who do most eventually hit a wall and can't continue their success.

As for who'd replace them? I don't really think there is anyone available who could do the job. We could be seeing Leocaster being past their peak effectiveness already, although I hope they're not.

There is one guy who stands out a mile for me, he has a razor sharp rugby brain , was a top class player and would have the respect of everyone in the camp immediately and that is BOD.

Not sure he would want to get involved but I think he would be an ideal backs coach for any rugby side in the world but most of all for Ireland

If not him Glesson at wasps seems to have them playing a very entertaining brand of rugby and scoring lost of trys and he had Salford playing some great rugby when he was part of the set up there
BOD would need to prove himself elsewhere first IMO.

And one coach replacement doesn't solve the other 3 who seem to have hit a wall.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Dave Cahill »

Quinn Roux out til May
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