6 Nations 2021

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Oldschool
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Oldschool »

OTT wrote: February 9th, 2021, 12:08 pm
enby wrote: February 9th, 2021, 11:10 am Last week Virgin were playing reruns of old 6N games and I watched the 2015 Scotland match in Murrayfield. I know it should be bleeding obvious that players change over 6 years but I couldn't get over how much better both Murray and Sexton were then than they have been in the past couple of seasons. OK Jonny shanked a couple of place kicks ( as Madigan did with the last kick of the match, which I had forgotten) but his speed of pass and movement, his alignment, his choice of kick all seemed to be at an entirely different level to what he has been trying in recent times. I know that when I think of who should be selected I subconsciously take into account the high standards that established players achieved in the past and do not attach sufficient weight to current and indeed recent form. It seems that Farrell and Jones have done similarly. On the basis of recent form, the likes of Carty, Dave Kearney, Blade, Ruddock and Coombes should be on the pitch or bench
Obviously people’s opinion differ but for my sins I watch way to much rugby I especially try and watch the other Provinces. On your list of form players I really couldn’t agree with Carty or Blade having any form at all. I think they are out of sight for the most part and play for a neutral team (as in most people like Connacht to some degree) which helps them a lot when it comes to people’s recollection. Carty has been a serious mixed bag for me he mixes good and bad practically every match without reaching his peak form from 2018-2019. Thought Blade was better than Marmion last season but this season I think Marmion has looked much better.

Lads like Coombes and Ruddock have been standouts practically every game I’ve seen them play so most people could agree on their form but a lot of the form talk about most other players is very subjective.

A really strange one for me is Billy Burns because Farrell has picked him on form (imo) he’s probably been the best of an average enough performing group of 10’s in Ireland but I don’t think he’s going to ever be good enough for us but he’s there on form, should form get overridden here because I want it to be so.

In Leinster Luke has been the form 9 (imo) but we still have a divide amongst Leinster fans who they think should be starting for Leinster, so in this instance again (imo) Farrell has gone with someone (JGP) who he sees as a finisher and a different player to Luke it’s not really a form call.

The less you play seems to help people’s opionion on you, Joey is basically going to be our saviour (From what I read and people say) when he comes back from 2ish years of injuries despite being only a young learning Incomplete 10 prior to his injury. Harry Byrne who looks the absolute business to be fair, was missing for a chunk of this season, hasn’t played much, when he does play he’s usually getting an armchair ride is the new answer to all that’s wrong.

Then you have the coaches who’s jobs are on the line so are trying to build a squad/build a style but ultimately win because they don’t want the sack and they also have to please us fans by winning playing nice rugby whilst picking the players we want picked and we don’t mind if we lose to do it because we don’t really mind about the 6 nations (do we f%~k ) you can see that to our reaction to losing a game with 14 men that we played really well in.

Anyway I’d be happy with a similar team to the one against Wales, a few players are going to be out but I liked what I saw on Sunday, hopefully we don’t do anything stupid again and give ourselves a chance.
Good post. Burns form has however taken a big dip so that's a problem.
Luke looks great playing against dross but once the pressure comes on and even when it doesn't his passing is poor and that's the reason he didn't make the Ireland squad. Everything else about his game is international quality but.......it's the pass, LUKE (To paraphrase Pres. Bush Snr.)
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Flash Gordon »

JB1973 wrote: February 9th, 2021, 12:16 pm Morning Folks

Hope every one is well and staying safe

Just a welsh take from the weekends game

You were the best side even with 14 men and proably should have won the game

Going forward you can take as much if no more from that game than us tbh

On the plus side for you

a) Beirne had his best game in a test jersey and was my motm
b) Henshaw was the best back on display for either side and he even did ok in the scrums!
c) Your fitness was good and you made a mess of our line out
d) Your scrum was v solid
e) kilcoyne did really well from the bench
f) Lowe kicking game was really impressive and I didn't know he had such a big boot on him
g) Keenan is a real player at 15 and has a big future ahead of him at test rugby,v calm assured player with good positional sense

On the down sides

a) POM was reckless to the extreme , that is a nailed on red in the modern game not even a debate
b) Lowe messed up twice in defence , took North's dummy then dived in and allowed us to create an overlap for LRZ
c) Earls had a stinker and looked really shaky be it under high ball or when ever he took the ball into contact
d) Burns cameo was little short of dreadful, prior to to that final play didn't he kick the ball dead when a line out steal close to your own line under no pressure? the last play was awful I hate to be harsh but that is just dreadful at this level of rugby


As for us well we are no better than we were in the autumn games, if we had been up against 15 for the full game we'd have lost by double digits

Our line out is a mess, we kick too much ball away and we are not physical enough at the breakdown.

Gareth Davies decision to kick the ball away at the end was up there with burns in terms of making a huge mistake that could have cost us the game and amos is simply not good enough to ever play test match rugby again

I thought wyn jones awj and tips showed up well and naividi and rowlands did well off the bench, LRZ is a threat with ball in hand and north took his try well. Not sure he has the all round game to be a test level centre though , his handling skills are just not there but he does look sharp again and is a threat with ball in hand.

Sorry to say but I don't see a win for either of us this weekend but I hope I'm wrong on both counts
Would agree with all of that. I think you missed an awful pass that went closer to the FB than first receiver in your analysis of Burns. I really felt for the lad but he's not at this level. The kick away from Davies in the last minute was insane. You have the ball and are controlling the recycle and then he did that. Crazy stuff.

No disrespect to Wales but we had a fairly comfortable win again them last year and I'm not sure they are in great shape. We should have beaten them. i know it's hard to judge with 14 but I felt our attack was poor. With the quality of players we have we should be turning opposition defenders inside out. There was a lot of aimless kicking and aside from the Henshaw break we didn't seem to have much in the tactics book.

Think someone mentioned that AWJ was off form this weekend but he made 23 tackles and it was a pleasure to watch Tipuric work.

Can't see either team impacting the tournament significantly at this point, maybe that reflects the quality of Joe Schmidt and Warren Gatland and what they achieved.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by fourthirtythree »

Unfortunately I agree with pretty much all that. Had we won it Gareth Davies would have been the villain of the day. Madness. Would have taken some of the focus of O'Mahony and Burns.

I was surprised by how well North did to be honest, I wasn't expecting it having good memories of him playing 13 before!
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by blockhead »

Overall, I thought we played well. The POM red really blew a hole in any plan we had and it was ad lib from there. Losing Ryan was almost as big a blow but TBF Hendo did well when he came on. We dominated most of the game despite the circumstances but individual bad play really let us down at times. Earls had a horrendous 10 mins were eveything he touched turned to dust and brought them into the game. I have always been wary of Billy Burns, he looks like a walking calamity waiting to happen. I was screaming at the telly, trying to warn Billy not to kick it it dead. I just knew something awful was about to happen.
I'd be worried if I were Wales, based on this weekend Scotland will cream them.
If we get Ryan and Doris back then its game on against the over-rated French.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by blockhead »

Ireland captain Jonathan Sexton and lock James Ryan will go through the graduated return-to-play protocols this week, ahead of Sunday’s Guinness Six Nations game against France.

Meanwhile, Peter O’Mahony will have a Six Nations disciplinary hearing today following the red card received against at the weekend.

Jack Conan has joined the group at the IRFU’s High Performance Centre in Blanchardstown today, and Ryan Baird will again train with the Ireland squad this week.

Ed Byrne, who provided additional front row cover for the trip to Cardiff, has also remained with the squad.

Gavin Coombes has returned to train with Munster after spending some time with the national squad last week.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Oldschool »

Flash Gordon wrote: February 9th, 2021, 12:56 pm
JB1973 wrote: February 9th, 2021, 12:16 pm Morning Folks

Hope every one is well and staying safe

Just a welsh take from the weekends game

You were the best side even with 14 men and proably should have won the game

Going forward you can take as much if no more from that game than us tbh

On the plus side for you

a) Beirne had his best game in a test jersey and was my motm
b) Henshaw was the best back on display for either side and he even did ok in the scrums!
c) Your fitness was good and you made a mess of our line out
d) Your scrum was v solid
e) kilcoyne did really well from the bench
f) Lowe kicking game was really impressive and I didn't know he had such a big boot on him
g) Keenan is a real player at 15 and has a big future ahead of him at test rugby,v calm assured player with good positional sense

On the down sides

a) POM was reckless to the extreme , that is a nailed on red in the modern game not even a debate
b) Lowe messed up twice in defence , took North's dummy then dived in and allowed us to create an overlap for LRZ
c) Earls had a stinker and looked really shaky be it under high ball or when ever he took the ball into contact
d) Burns cameo was little short of dreadful, prior to to that final play didn't he kick the ball dead when a line out steal close to your own line under no pressure? the last play was awful I hate to be harsh but that is just dreadful at this level of rugby


As for us well we are no better than we were in the autumn games, if we had been up against 15 for the full game we'd have lost by double digits

Our line out is a mess, we kick too much ball away and we are not physical enough at the breakdown.

Gareth Davies decision to kick the ball away at the end was up there with burns in terms of making a huge mistake that could have cost us the game and amos is simply not good enough to ever play test match rugby again

I thought wyn jones awj and tips showed up well and naividi and rowlands did well off the bench, LRZ is a threat with ball in hand and north took his try well. Not sure he has the all round game to be a test level centre though , his handling skills are just not there but he does look sharp again and is a threat with ball in hand.

Sorry to say but I don't see a win for either of us this weekend but I hope I'm wrong on both counts
Would agree with all of that. I think you missed an awful pass that went closer to the FB than first receiver in your analysis of Burns. I really felt for the lad but he's not at this level. The kick away from Davies in the last minute was insane. You have the ball and are controlling the recycle and then he did that. Crazy stuff.

No disrespect to Wales but we had a fairly comfortable win again them last year and I'm not sure they are in great shape. We should have beaten them. i know it's hard to judge with 14 but I felt our attack was poor. With the quality of players we have we should be turning opposition defenders inside out. There was a lot of aimless kicking and aside from the Henshaw break we didn't seem to have much in the tactics book.

Think someone mentioned that AWJ was off form this weekend but he made 23 tackles and it was a pleasure to watch Tipuric work.

Can't see either team impacting the tournament significantly at this point, maybe that reflects the quality of Joe Schmidt and Warren Gatland and what they achieved.
AWJ - Wales made a lot of tackles.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Flash Gordon »

Oldschool wrote: February 9th, 2021, 2:46 pm
Flash Gordon wrote: February 9th, 2021, 12:56 pm
JB1973 wrote: February 9th, 2021, 12:16 pm Morning Folks

Hope every one is well and staying safe

Just a welsh take from the weekends game

You were the best side even with 14 men and proably should have won the game

Going forward you can take as much if no more from that game than us tbh

On the plus side for you

a) Beirne had his best game in a test jersey and was my motm
b) Henshaw was the best back on display for either side and he even did ok in the scrums!
c) Your fitness was good and you made a mess of our line out
d) Your scrum was v solid
e) kilcoyne did really well from the bench
f) Lowe kicking game was really impressive and I didn't know he had such a big boot on him
g) Keenan is a real player at 15 and has a big future ahead of him at test rugby,v calm assured player with good positional sense

On the down sides

a) POM was reckless to the extreme , that is a nailed on red in the modern game not even a debate
b) Lowe messed up twice in defence , took North's dummy then dived in and allowed us to create an overlap for LRZ
c) Earls had a stinker and looked really shaky be it under high ball or when ever he took the ball into contact
d) Burns cameo was little short of dreadful, prior to to that final play didn't he kick the ball dead when a line out steal close to your own line under no pressure? the last play was awful I hate to be harsh but that is just dreadful at this level of rugby


As for us well we are no better than we were in the autumn games, if we had been up against 15 for the full game we'd have lost by double digits

Our line out is a mess, we kick too much ball away and we are not physical enough at the breakdown.

Gareth Davies decision to kick the ball away at the end was up there with burns in terms of making a huge mistake that could have cost us the game and amos is simply not good enough to ever play test match rugby again

I thought wyn jones awj and tips showed up well and naividi and rowlands did well off the bench, LRZ is a threat with ball in hand and north took his try well. Not sure he has the all round game to be a test level centre though , his handling skills are just not there but he does look sharp again and is a threat with ball in hand.

Sorry to say but I don't see a win for either of us this weekend but I hope I'm wrong on both counts
Would agree with all of that. I think you missed an awful pass that went closer to the FB than first receiver in your analysis of Burns. I really felt for the lad but he's not at this level. The kick away from Davies in the last minute was insane. You have the ball and are controlling the recycle and then he did that. Crazy stuff.

No disrespect to Wales but we had a fairly comfortable win again them last year and I'm not sure they are in great shape. We should have beaten them. i know it's hard to judge with 14 but I felt our attack was poor. With the quality of players we have we should be turning opposition defenders inside out. There was a lot of aimless kicking and aside from the Henshaw break we didn't seem to have much in the tactics book.

Think someone mentioned that AWJ was off form this weekend but he made 23 tackles and it was a pleasure to watch Tipuric work.

Can't see either team impacting the tournament significantly at this point, maybe that reflects the quality of Joe Schmidt and Warren Gatland and what they achieved.
AWJ - Wales made a lot of tackles.
They did but Tipuric and AWJ made more tackles than anyone else. He also gained more meters than Williams and Halfpenny.I thought he played pretty well.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by hugonaut »

blockhead wrote: February 9th, 2021, 1:44 pm Gavin Coombes has returned to train with Munster after spending some time with the national squad last week.
This seems a bit stupid. Munster don't have a game until the 20th Feb, i.e. Saturday week. Why not keep Coombes involved with the national squad for the week of training to allow him to become more familiar with the coaches, systems, lineout calls, non-provincial team-mates, training routines etc.? He can go back to the Munster squad and train with them for the following week.

Coombes has been the best forward to emerge from the Munster Academy since Jack O'Donoghue [at least]. I think he's got the athleticism, size and power to prosper at test level. It's worthwhile investing time in him.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by blockhead »

hugonaut wrote: February 9th, 2021, 3:45 pm
blockhead wrote: February 9th, 2021, 1:44 pm Gavin Coombes has returned to train with Munster after spending some time with the national squad last week.
This seems a bit stupid. Munster don't have a game until the 20th Feb, i.e. Saturday week. Why not keep Coombes involved with the national squad for the week of training to allow him to become more familiar with the coaches, systems, lineout calls, non-provincial team-mates, training routines etc.? He can go back to the Munster squad and train with them for the following week.

Coombes has been the best forward to emerge from the Munster Academy since Jack O'Donoghue [at least]. I think he's got the athleticism, size and power to prosper at test level. It's worthwhile investing time in him.
It has been confirmed that Munster will face Connacht at 1pm on Friday, February 12, in an Interpro Challenge Match at the Sportsground in Galway.

Maybe he's getting some gametime in.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by hugonaut »

blockhead wrote: February 9th, 2021, 4:04 pm
hugonaut wrote: February 9th, 2021, 3:45 pm
blockhead wrote: February 9th, 2021, 1:44 pm Gavin Coombes has returned to train with Munster after spending some time with the national squad last week.
This seems a bit stupid. Munster don't have a game until the 20th Feb, i.e. Saturday week. Why not keep Coombes involved with the national squad for the week of training to allow him to become more familiar with the coaches, systems, lineout calls, non-provincial team-mates, training routines etc.? He can go back to the Munster squad and train with them for the following week.

Coombes has been the best forward to emerge from the Munster Academy since Jack O'Donoghue [at least]. I think he's got the athleticism, size and power to prosper at test level. It's worthwhile investing time in him.
It has been confirmed that Munster will face Connacht at 1pm on Friday, February 12, in an Interpro Challenge Match at the Sportsground in Galway.

Maybe he's getting some gametime in.
He's played in 12 [10+2] of Munster's 13 games this season - 691 mins of a possible 1040 [66%].

EDIT: I should have added that they have let him go and called up Conan. Maybe I have a jaundiced read on the situation or have the wrong end of the stick entirely, but it looks to me like they thought that he wasn't ready for test rugby, sent him off back to Munster and brought Conan in instead. It's swapping a No8 out for a No8.
Last edited by hugonaut on February 9th, 2021, 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by the spoofer »

No citing for Williams by the looks of things. That is really really odd. I know he concussed himself doing it but it's still not right.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by fourthirtythree »

the spoofer wrote: February 9th, 2021, 4:36 pm No citing for Williams by the looks of things. That is really really odd. I know he concussed himself doing it but it's still not right.
Could have thought it merited a yellow only.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by hugonaut »

JB1973 wrote: February 9th, 2021, 12:16 pm Morning Folks

Hope every one is well and staying safe

Just a welsh take from the weekends game ...
Welcome back to the forum JB. Congratulations on the win and best of luck in your next game.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by hugonaut »

O'Mahony banned for three games: https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rug ... 23567.html

Opens the door for Rhys Ruddock to make a very, very belated first start in the Six Nations. When you consider that he has played in two RWC quarter-finals, it's extraordinary that he hasn't started in the Six Nations before.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by leinsterforever »

There's not much Lowe could have done for the North try. There was too much to cover. He did come up and in for LRZ's try though, leaving the space on the outside. Did Ringrose bring him up a bit? I'd have to watch back. Lowe did the same earlier in the game somewhere around the 10-metre line. He came up and in and Wales made significant ground down the wing when they passed it outside him.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Twist »

blockhead wrote: February 9th, 2021, 1:40 pm Overall, I thought we played well. The POM red really blew a hole in any plan we had and it was ad lib from there.
Yeah it was, and if anything I thought our attack improved. It was certainly less predictable. Maybe its just a coincidence, but is it possible we're better when we're not following Mike Catt's plan?
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Flash Gordon »

hugonaut wrote: February 9th, 2021, 8:31 pm O'Mahony banned for three games: https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rug ... 23567.html

Opens the door for Rhys Ruddock to make a very, very belated first start in the Six Nations. When you consider that he has played in two RWC quarter-finals, it's extraordinary that he hasn't started in the Six Nations before.
I would hope so and it would be very much a deserved call up but I wouldn't be surprised to see Conan at 8 and CJ at 6.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by hugonaut »

Flash Gordon wrote: February 10th, 2021, 10:08 am
hugonaut wrote: February 9th, 2021, 8:31 pm O'Mahony banned for three games: https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rug ... 23567.html

Opens the door for Rhys Ruddock to make a very, very belated first start in the Six Nations. When you consider that he has played in two RWC quarter-finals, it's extraordinary that he hasn't started in the Six Nations before.
I would hope so and it would be very much a deserved call up but I wouldn't be surprised to see Conan at 8 and CJ at 6.
You may well be right, but CJ's last two performances at No6 have been dire. It looks like he's not very good at playing blindside anymore. His game against England was one of the worst matches I've ever seen him play.

vs Scotland: https://www.irishrugby.ie/overview/?Fix ... erformance
@ England: https://www.irishrugby.ie/overview/?Fix ... erformance
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Oldschool »

hugonaut wrote: February 10th, 2021, 11:47 am
Flash Gordon wrote: February 10th, 2021, 10:08 am
hugonaut wrote: February 9th, 2021, 8:31 pm O'Mahony banned for three games: https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rug ... 23567.html

Opens the door for Rhys Ruddock to make a very, very belated first start in the Six Nations. When you consider that he has played in two RWC quarter-finals, it's extraordinary that he hasn't started in the Six Nations before.
I would hope so and it would be very much a deserved call up but I wouldn't be surprised to see Conan at 8 and CJ at 6.
You may well be right, but CJ's last two performances at No6 have been dire. It looks like he's not very good at playing blindside anymore. His game against England was one of the worst matches I've ever seen him play.

vs Scotland: https://www.irishrugby.ie/overview/?Fix ... erformance
@ England: https://www.irishrugby.ie/overview/?Fix ... erformance
Not a fan of CJ at 6 either.
Munster need to be playing him at 6 with Coombes at 8 if it's likely that Doris will be our 8 into the future.
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Re: 6 Nations 2021

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Ireland lost against Wales between the 45th & 60th minutes due to very poor tactics and a succession of player errors, notably three by Earls in a two minute period leading to Wales' second try.

Firstly, the tactical piece. Just as the first 14th minutes of the game was dominated by poor box kicking by both teams, Ireland appeared to have decided on the same tactic to commence the second half. Various kicks from Keenan, Murray & Sexton were poorly executed with Sexton's kick going out on the full, from a left side ruck inside the Welsh way and with Ireland having a 6 on 5 numerical player advantage, including JVdF & Byrne as well as Ringrose & Earls. This was followed by Murray kicking from midfield on the Welsh 10m line allowing Halpenny a very easy uncontested mark deep in his 22m area.

Ireland had finished the first-half with 25 mins of largely possession rugby and Wales looked pressurised. Why we altered tactics so radically to start the second half is a mystery.

Thus having allowed Wales make a contest of the third quarter, we then proceeded to revert to carrying the game to them only to concede a succeession of mistakes which allowed them first escape from their 22 and shortly thereafter grab succesive penalties in our 22m area to claim their second try.

Earls "hat-trick of horrors" included a knock-on when competing against Halpenny aerially, another aerial infringement tackling the Welsh sub scrum-half in the air and then, when hurriedly taking a pass from Murray any after Ireland had won a Welsh line-out on our 22m line, Earls kicked directly to touch - just as Barnes was shouting "taken back in". This was very unfortunate but critical to the game.

Burns was in the out-half position, but defensively aligned for the Welsh line-out. Henderson timed his jump in front of AWJ but just tapped the ball down to Murray opposite No 2 in the lineout. Earls was the only Irish player to whom Murray could pass, but he certainly did not anticipate getting the ball and was certainly unaware it had been "taken back in".

Ireland, through a sloppy 'side-entry' from Henshaw, alongside Earls' trio of mistakes, surrendered an excellent attacking position at midfield on the Welsh 22m line and found themselves defending a Welsh lineout 5m from our line. Poor first phase tackling and indecisive defending by Lowe saw the young Welsh winger in at the corner on 60 mins.

This was a really poor period of Irish mistakes compounding inappropriate tactics.

In the final quarter which was very interrupted by injuries, Ireland couldn't put a sustained attack together until the 79th minute and we know how that ended.

Although Easterby conceded that Ireland made too many unforced errors & conceded unnecessary penalties, I would attribute the second-half performance largely to poor tactics and no tactical recognition of what game had hurt Wales in the first half.

We'll need to do better than that against France.
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