Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

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Ruckedtobits
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Agree with most of that @dropkick. I just hope that Farrell picks a team to play England next week and forgets about yesterday's display.

We were outweighted by 40kg in the scrum and we did little effective mauling. Our best line-out options were very fast off the top. England will try to slow us down to beat us up and we'll need Henderson & Ryan with Doris being lifted as high as PO'M (who should be left out IMO). Stander 8, Doris 6 and Connors @ 7 - but pushing in the scrum.

If Ross Byrne becomes the 10 option, select JGP. Otherwise pick Murray & Carty with Bundee & Henshaw. Stockdale & Lowe with Keenan in back three and use Keenan as second playmaker on shortside regularly.

To beat England you must control the possession and move them side-to-side and backwards. Kicking box kicks doesn't work nor can you maul their pack. Diagonal grubbers and attacking their wingers is where you get gains but control the pill and get bodies to breakdown quicker.

Looking forward to this now.

wixfjord
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by wixfjord »

Twist wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 9:11 pm

Ryan is at his best when he’s at loosehead lock, imo

I could not agree more on this, and it's an important issue that will crop up again and again imo, particularly if we've Baird starting beside him.

wixfjord
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by wixfjord »

Some of JGP's passing and attack work was excellent. Reminded me of the Scarlets euro semi a few years back.
When he's presented with quick ball he's excellent.

Totally different player to Murray.

VDF was very quiet.

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by Dave Cahill »

Ireland played well for the most part and won comfortably.

That has to be seen through the lens of how completely, utterly, entirely, gash Wales were though. It was only an Arwel Thomas penalty attempt short of being the worst Welsh performance I've ever seen in Dublin. Something is very wrong in that camp.
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wixfjord
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by wixfjord »

backrower8 wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 9:22 pm
Raynal was brutal. Let Wales away with murder at breakdown, offside and cheap shots early on.

James Ryan took over the captaincy but POM still told him to take the 3 points early in 2nd half. That’s ok.

Andy Farrell tries to please in his media engagements, but he is not comfortable doing it.

Murray did well at 10. Centres looked sluggish.
That isn't what happened imo.

The camera was on POM and he pointed at Murray to kick (Murray had just came on and we were without a kicker).

Ryan made the decision and told the ref though.

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fourthirtythree
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by fourthirtythree »

Lowe really triggered the Welsh. Which was nice to see, better reffing and there's cards for the opposition there.
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ronk
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by ronk »

fourthirtythree wrote:
November 14th, 2020, 12:46 pm
Lowe really triggered the Welsh. Which was nice to see, better reffing and there's cards for the opposition there.
They triggered themselves.

They were trying to wind him up, that just makes him even more active.

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Dexter
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by Dexter »

ronk wrote:
November 14th, 2020, 1:11 pm
fourthirtythree wrote:
November 14th, 2020, 12:46 pm
Lowe really triggered the Welsh. Which was nice to see, better reffing and there's cards for the opposition there.
They triggered themselves.

They were trying to wind him up, that just makes him even more active.
Yep, anyone who tries to wind up Lowe just haven't done their homework. He reacts positively to those shenanigans.
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Blue not red blood
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by Blue not red blood »

Anyone hear what Henderson’s ( medical condition ) was?

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MylesNaGapoleen
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

Blue not red blood wrote:
November 14th, 2020, 7:21 pm
Anyone hear what Henderson’s ( medical condition ) was?
none. rumour is stockdale broke a team rule (covid related I think) and hendo went ballistic with him. they had a confrontation/row and farrell left them both out of the team.

rumour was floating around twitter btw. nothing in the press/meejya about it.

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Blue not red blood
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by Blue not red blood »

Heard something similar alright

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johng
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by johng »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote:
November 14th, 2020, 8:35 pm
Blue not red blood wrote:
November 14th, 2020, 7:21 pm
Anyone hear what Henderson’s ( medical condition ) was?
none. rumour is stockdale broke a team rule (covid related I think) and hendo went ballistic with him. they had a confrontation/row and farrell left them both out of the team.

rumour was floating around twitter btw. nothing in the press/meejya about it.
I think that was a joke. :)

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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by lummix »

Against england I think there is a strong case to play quinn roux in the second row for the first 50 minutes to ensure our scrum is solid, I would equally make a case the POM should start maybe at 7 for the lineout. We know what england will do (power game) so might be a case of a horses for courses selection to counter them. If we are still in it after 50 minutes I think we will win it.

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

lummix wrote:
November 15th, 2020, 9:31 am
Against england I think there is a strong case to play quinn roux in the second row for the first 50 minutes to ensure our scrum is solid, I would equally make a case the POM should start maybe at 7 for the lineout. We know what england will do (power game) so might be a case of a horses for courses selection to counter them. If we are still in it after 50 minutes I think we will win it.
have to agree re Quinn Roux - I have been underwhelmed by Henderson in the second Row, I've always felt he's never been able to push and run. Prob should have been made a 6 a good few years back

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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by backrower8 »

wixfjord wrote:
November 14th, 2020, 11:38 am
backrower8 wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 9:22 pm
Raynal was brutal. Let Wales away with murder at breakdown, offside and cheap shots early on.

James Ryan took over the captaincy but POM still told him to take the 3 points early in 2nd half. That’s ok.

Andy Farrell tries to please in his media engagements, but he is not comfortable doing it.

Murray did well at 10. Centres looked sluggish.
That isn't what happened imo.

The camera was on POM and he pointed at Murray to kick (Murray had just came on and we were without a kicker).

Ryan made the decision and told the ref though.
You agree with me. POM told Ryan and Ryan told the ref. My point was that POM ‘told’, the albeit new, Captain what to do. It’s more a commentary on how tentative Ryan was in the new role. A point Peter O’Reilly makes in The Sunday Times.

Also in the Times is a line from a Horgan that nails why Ryan is so tentative, although Horgan didn’t write it in that context. He says:

“There is a bit of me which wonders if the domineering presence of Johnny Sexton - and I don’t mean it in a bad sense [yet he feels the need to clarify that as it could reasonably construed that J10s presence is negatively domineering] has deterred others from purging themselves forward to play such a role [taking the ball out of position] in the past.”


Johnny’s dominance is not a good thing anymore. It was alright when he was in his pomp and playing with his own generation. We won’t evolve as much or as fast as we need to while he is still picked. We must roll the dice in most matches and choose others to start, including Harry Byrne.

Argentina had 2x 23 year-olds; 4 x 22 and a 20 in their 23 yesterday (they also had lots of very mature players).

Last week Australia had 5 players between 20 - 23 when beating NZ (who had one over 30, Whitelock at 31). What are we at?

We need to deadhead the King and dive in. The IRFU won’t lose any money at the turnstiles and we get to develop and make up for the lost talents of Jackson and Carberry.

wixfjord
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by wixfjord »

backrower8 wrote:
November 15th, 2020, 11:27 am

You agree with me. POM told Ryan and Ryan told the ref. My point was that POM ‘told’, the albeit new, Captain what to do. It’s more a commentary on how tentative Ryan was in the new role. A point Peter O’Reilly makes in The Sunday Times.

No, POM said it to Murray. That's what I said above there.

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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by backrower8 »

You did. My error. I am not sure POM’s direction was limited to Murray. It’s worse again if it was just Murray he directed as in that case he had bypassed the Captain altogether. Either way POM had inserted himself into a Captaincy decision when he wasn’t in the role.

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Logorrhea
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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by Logorrhea »

backrower8 wrote:
November 15th, 2020, 1:25 pm
You did. My error. I am not sure POM’s direction was limited to Murray. It’s worse again if it was just Murray he directed as in that case he had bypassed the Captain altogether. Either way POM had inserted himself into a Captaincy decision when he wasn’t in the role.
I think you are reading WAY to much into what was a guy pointing at the posts. If he said it to the ref he would have overstepped, as it is you are arguing about whether he suggested it to Murray or Ryan. Waste of time. I thought it was a positive that there were sufficient leaders on the pitch to step up when required and once all decisions went through the captain, its all good.

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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by backrower8 »

Logorrhea wrote:
November 15th, 2020, 8:30 pm
backrower8 wrote:
November 15th, 2020, 1:25 pm
You did. My error. I am not sure POM’s direction was limited to Murray. It’s worse again if it was just Murray he directed as in that case he had bypassed the Captain altogether. Either way POM had inserted himself into a Captaincy decision when he wasn’t in the role.
I think you are reading WAY to much into what was a guy pointing at the posts. If he said it to the ref he would have overstepped, as it is you are arguing about whether he suggested it to Murray or Ryan. Waste of time. I thought it was a positive that there were sufficient leaders on the pitch to step up when required and once all decisions went through the captain, its all good.
It wasn't any guy and he wasn't just pointing at the posts - he was asserting his seniority. Were your logic to hold then 4 or 5 players may as well point to what they think should happen anytime there is a penalty in the strike zone.

Those moments were of significance. Not in the context of the match or the quasi-tournament. The point was that there was a new person given the role of Captain and that person needed to be allowed the full experience, not with a backseat driver. Faz could have nominated POM, he didn't. POM could have given his message to Ryan. He didn't.

If Ryan is in the Captaincy role again, or Ringer or whomever from the next generation, then what we need is for Ryan/Ringer/A.N. Other to get the experience of finding their way to making the onfield decisions and not to be overridden by any other player (especially older ones), because that undermines the new Captain's authority both in the eyes of the team and himself. These things matter, especially as the squad is shifting to a new power base.

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Re: Ireland v. Wales, Fri 13 Nov, 19.00

Post by Flash Gordon »

Dave Cahill wrote:
November 14th, 2020, 11:33 am
Ireland played well for the most part and won comfortably.

That has to be seen through the lens of how completely, utterly, entirely, gash Wales were though. It was only an Arwel Thomas penalty attempt short of being the worst Welsh performance I've ever seen in Dublin. Something is very wrong in that camp.
Was saying the same after the game to my lads. That was probably the worst Welsh performance I've seen against us in my lifetime, they were absolutely awful. Guess it shows how Gatland and Edwards had them playing well above their ability for years,
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