France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

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Peg Leg
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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by Peg Leg »

munster#1 wrote:
October 31st, 2020, 9:25 pm
Really don’t think Farrell should have been on the bench. Could really do with earls
Think Farrell has always been great for us tbh
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LeinsterLeader
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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by LeinsterLeader »

Small crumbs of comfort from a Leinster perspective, James Ryan and Robbie Henshaw were super.

There were some other really good performances too (Stander, Beirne) but the errors we made were just calamitous. Some of it was 'Laurel and Hardy' stuff. You just won't get away it at this level and we didn't :(

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neiliog93
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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by neiliog93 »

Stockdale was so bad at times, some awful errors. He did look decent with the ball in hand but we need more from him. In general, we just need to labour so much to score. Even if we play well and manage to do that, teams like France just score with so much less effort than us. Makes everything difficult. James Lowe (and Larmour) could help to give us more x-factor, but we need a couple of other gifted, extremely athletic backs to compete at the highest level internationally, and we just don't seem to have that at the moment.
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dropkick
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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by dropkick »

Lots of good performances but there were some shockers!


Started out well and played tactically smart but a few calamities by Stockdale was the catalyst for the team implosion. I defended him during the week but I presumed hands were not dipped in oil.


So 5 games in for Farrell. should have lost to Scotland, played well against Wales and Italy, were terrible against England and terrible against France.


His defensive system also has to be looked at because England and France are scoring tries galore from kicks in behind the defense.


Some of the older players are past it. Murray and Sexton looked slow. Aki's physicality had no real impact, Herring threw well at least but physically he's way off this level, the Connacht subs are off the required level too. I'd cut Farrell some slack though because he doesn't have too much choice but theres a new wave of players coming through that should give the team a big boost in the next few years.

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by Twist »

On Stockdale - he seems to be learning the position still, but international matches are not the place to be learning.

I thought Matt Williams made a good point about the offload stats. It was 14-3 to France and every other stat was in our favour. Its not a panacea but our reluctance to offload is part of why we labour so much to score

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by Twist »

dropkick wrote:Lots of good performances but there were some shockers!


Started out well and played tactically smart but a few calamities by Stockdale was the catalyst for the team implosion. I defended him during the week but I presumed hands were not dipped in oil.


So 5 games in for Farrell. should have lost to Scotland, played well against Wales and Italy, were terrible against England and terrible against France.


His defensive system also has to be looked at because England and France are scoring tries galore from kicks in behind the defense.


Some of the older players are past it. Murray and Sexton looked slow. Aki's physicality had no real impact, Herring threw well at least but physically he's way off this level, the Connacht subs are off the required level too. I'd cut Farrell some slack though because he doesn't have too much choice but theres a new wave of players coming through that should give the team a big boost in the next few years.
I think its an exaggerration to say we were terrible against France

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by munster#1 »

Peg Leg wrote:
October 31st, 2020, 9:58 pm
munster#1 wrote:
October 31st, 2020, 9:25 pm
Really don’t think Farrell should have been on the bench. Could really do with earls
Think Farrell has always been great for us tbh
I think Farrell is a great player. Just don’t think he is an impact sub.
I would have preferred Earls being sent out to empty the tank for the last 30 mins.

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by Keith »

I'd love to know what thinking is with putting POM on the bench.

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by chrismcc »

Looking at the 23 in hindsight there was no utility back in the squad. So when Stockdale was having a bad game there was no option on the bench really with Farrell primarily a centre. Unless you consider Henshaw as an outside back which I personally don't. Not sure any of the back 3 could do a job at centre to allow Daly or someone similar on the bench. So Stockdale had to stay on or switch with Keenan which they possibly did late in the game? By then though I think Stockdale head was gone. At one stage around 55 minutes I was thinking bring on Gibson Park and move Murray to fullback. He's a massive boot and solid under the high ball.

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by Logorrhea »

Thought Stockdale did more right than wrong. Struggled with the slippy ball but in general he looked a threat going forward and solid enough at the back. Sure he made mistakes, but I think there is a quality full back there.

Ryan looked really good. Beirne did well as did the back row but outside of that, we lacked creativity. Maybe due to shite ball, I'm not sure.

We do have problems with the depth of the squad. There were a lot of players playing some pretty average stuff on the pitch for us tonight and the bench didn't really have an impact. I'm not sure what kind of changes I would have made in selection though. The players just aren't there at the moment.

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by ronk »

I thought we looked badly coached. Maybe not tactics but game management and drill. We made a lot of visits to their 22 without points and made life hard for ourselves off errors. They applied pressure well though with some hard defence.

The championship was there for the taking and we didn’t take it.

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by neiliog93 »

Why do France, England, New Zealand, South Africa etc. seem to effortlessly just always have a good line-out? And we just don't.
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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by sunshiner1 »

by neiliog93

Why do France, England, New Zealand, South Africa etc. seem to effortlessly just always have a good line-out? And we just don't.
Agreed. What was once one of best assets is now a liability. We seem to improve in one area and go backwards in another.

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by Ruckedtobits »

That was a game in which we created lots but delivered little. Watched the game I felt we never got a bounce of the ball and France got so many, right from the roll of the ball from Sexton's exquisite grubber for Hugo Keenan.

Jacob Stockdale is not a full-back on current available evidence. He is however an excellent broken field runner and a decent counter-attacker. His schoolboy errors in collecting a rolling ball were very expensive and for me are too great a cost for the continued experiment.

IMO, CJ Stander was outstanding throughout the game. His fitness and energy, even in the dying moments of the game was highly impressive and his decision making as a No 8 was high class.

He was joined at that level by James Ryan whose energy, strength and techniques were superb and who has certainly returned to his highest standards.

Keenan, Henshaw, Healy, Porter & Doris were in the next rank of Irish players and each of them contributed to Ireland's creation of opportunities.

Sexton and Murray both contributed well in leadership and bravery. J10 no longer has the acceleration to be a real international threat at outhalf but his decision making and creation of a backline attack continue to be of the highest standard. The difference in the pace of delivery between JGP and CM was once again so evident and given that our pack cannot dominate our stronger opponents, we now need that speed of delivery to provide the necessary tempo to our game.

Beirne, Doris, Connors & Herring all made good contributions but did not outplay their direct opponents and at this level that's what you need to win tournaments.

Overall, I believe that our game plan and tactics were correct. Our scrum was excellent initially but our line-out options were limited and our attacking mauls were stifled. Whilst Henshaw and Aki provided energy and power in attack, other than Robbie Henshaw's try which was superb, we did not get line breaks in scoring areas of the pitch.

But back to the bounce of the ball, I can rarely remember a game in which the bounce seemed so often to go to hand for the French and away from the Irish. That's the nature of the ball and the game and yesterday was just not our day.

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by TerenureJim »

For me you look at the front row and bench was quite callow, but mostly that's a result of injuries. Fixable.

Line-out seriously malfunctioning so you either bring back Toner to ensure there's a guarantee you win ball and or POM starts to bring the Aries challenge. Plenty of work for the training ground.

Back row were decent, Leavy will add a lot at the breakdown but I think we've been slow to adjust to new regs. Again coaching fix.

Halfbacks have the skills but some poor decision making and need to know (a la Joe to Kearny in 2016 Chicago) that they're not nailed on. Murray needs to use his break threat again and stop taking a ponderous step with his pass.

Midfield was good but Ringrose a massive loss, Aki is a bit one dimensional at times but we know he can off load as can Henshaw so why aren't we seeing it? Overly conservative tactics?

Back three Keenan looks decent at this level but still so new, Conway solid if unspectacular but can be class. Stockdale can be great but it's not 2018 and he's done nothing to improve defence in two years if anything it's getting worse, bending over to pick up a ball rather than diving in it, nit pressuring DuPont on his touchdown looked supremely lazy, also looks a lack of urgency and poor positional sense about his game. All fixable but he needs a massive kick up the arse. Earls, Lowe and Larmour are all ahead of Stockdale for back 3 pecking order and others in Ulster and Munster could be argued too if you're looking at recent form.

Bench was ok but didn't add much JGP aside and I thought POM would give some leadership but we just seemed a bit all over the place.

Hopefully the next few weeks of camp and matches will build a squad under Farrell and Co. if not I'd say changes will take place with the ticket. Remind me again what Mike Catts role is?

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by johng »

Dave Cahill wrote:
October 31st, 2020, 9:07 pm
James Lowe is IQ for when, the next game or the one after?
Looks like next week....

viewtopic.php?p=704165#p704165

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by Oldschool »

TerenureJim wrote:
November 1st, 2020, 8:10 am
For me you look at the front row and bench was quite callow, but mostly that's a result of injuries. Fixable.

Line-out seriously malfunctioning so you either bring back Toner to ensure there's a guarantee you win ball and or POM starts to bring the Aries challenge. Plenty of work for the training ground.

Back row were decent, Leavy will add a lot at the breakdown but I think we've been slow to adjust to new regs. Again coaching fix.

Halfbacks have the skills but some poor decision making and need to know (a la Joe to Kearny in 2016 Chicago) that they're not nailed on. Murray needs to use his break threat again and stop taking a ponderous step with his pass.

Midfield was good but Ringrose a massive loss, Aki is a bit one dimensional at times but we know he can off load as can Henshaw so why aren't we seeing it? Overly conservative tactics?

Back three Keenan looks decent at this level but still so new, Conway solid if unspectacular but can be class. Stockdale can be great but it's not 2018 and he's done nothing to improve defence in two years if anything it's getting worse, bending over to pick up a ball rather than diving in it, nit pressuring DuPont on his touchdown looked supremely lazy, also looks a lack of urgency and poor positional sense about his game. All fixable but he needs a massive kick up the arse. Earls, Lowe and Larmour are all ahead of Stockdale for back 3 pecking order and others in Ulster and Munster could be argued too if you're looking at recent form.

Bench was ok but didn't add much JGP aside and I thought POM would give some leadership but we just seemed a bit all over the place.

Hopefully the next few weeks of camp and matches will build a squad under Farrell and Co. if not I'd say changes will take place with the ticket. Remind me again what Mike Catts role is?
Mike Catt is there to tell Farrell.
Sh!t in, sh!t out. (Harsh maybe)
Time to move on and not waste any more game time on players who should not be in the squad anymore.
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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Just watching the match again, almost every Irish ruck could arguably have been a penalty for us for the french rolling into to the scrum half.

we should have either challenged Barnes on not glowing it or forced the issue.

how can a team that experienced be so naive?

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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by Hippo »

I'd agree with virtually all of RTB's analysis, especially re Stockdale. We particularly missed Ringrose, he makes a massive difference in both defence and attack. The midfield alignment looked all wrong, passing was sluggish and frequently inaccurate. I always thought highly of Farrell but his contribution when he came on was disappointingly minimal.

The lineout needs a total overhaul, wtf is going wrong there?
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Re: France vs Ireland, 31 Oct - 8pm

Post by lummix »

I think we played ok stander, ryan, healy keenan and bierne going well but....The following would be of concern

Connors again seemed to lack the power to deal with the french pack, same as against sarries. We need dan leavy back.

We have no back up at 9 & 10 and when things are going badly we have no ability to change things up. We need to look at new options here. I wouldn't play murray or sexton for the rest of the year for ireland.

Stockdale will need to become smarter and braver to play full back at this level.

Hooker is a massive problem, you can see why best was allowed stick around past his sell by date, we have nothing. Whoever we think Is the long term successor we should put them in now, cus the 2 lads yesterday aren't the answer.

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