Bernard Laporte and France

[Up Wexford]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2020/092 ... ing-probe/

Bernard getting his come-uppence? Perhaps, in fairness to the French they tend to stand up to corruption in sports (IOC, FIFA) even tho they breed some of the worst. (Platini, Tour de France)

Pretty damning assesment. Essetially he's as crooked as a shepards hook, its just trying to catch him. When he makes the rules its hard to do that

[neiliog93]

Aside from possibly Italy, French sport is the most corrupt in Western Europe. The way Sarkozy and Platini cozied up to Qatar for the 2022 world cup rights (and the purchase of PSG) is absolutely disgusting.

In the Laporte case, don't forget that some small countries like Georgia voted for France largely based on 'sponsorships' from Altrad.

[nc6000]

Bernard being kept in custody for another 24 hours.

Edit - looks like there was some confusion with this story. The IT was reporting yesterday his detention was being extended by 24 hours, now they say he was released after 24 hours.

[Ruckedtobits]

French politics has often involved 'targeting sports individuals' who are supported by a particular party. This is an example of same. The process usually involves a major newspaper and a Government Minister who takes up the cause. Getting a national investigative agency is a key element and this has occurred here.

However, the perception among many French rugby journalists is that Laporte is the 'strong man' that French national rugby needs and anyway, despite Altrad's money, Montpellier have won nothing of substance. If this is portrayed as an attack against Laporte's re-election campaign it will run out of support unless they produce a 'smoking gun'.

[Up Wexford]

If we cast our minds back to the RWC 2023 competition and draw, we've got a good idea how Laporte and World Rugby works.

In our naievety, we thought we had a 1 in 3 chance, Croke park for a final, pairing up with other Celtic nations, rugby was on a real high in Ireland at the time. But the simple facts were Ireland and the government were only offering 185 million to play and vague notions of "growing the game" "gateway to america" etc, so we were dead in the water, a waste of everyones time in the eyes of World Rugby.

South Africa came in with 280 mil approx I think, and could have made it to 300 mil which was Frances offer. Laporte got on to someone - Altrad it now seems - guaranteed 350 million and then it was up to World Rugby to ensure the votes fell where they were told.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4364809

Edit: the ramblings of an extremely innocent man. Also havee to agree with the above that he sees himself as a strongman - "this is not a threat but everyone who went against us will be held accountable"

[Ruckedtobits]

If we cast our minds back to the RWC 2023 competition and draw, we've got a good idea how Laporte and World Rugby works.

In our naievety, we thought we had a 1 in 3 chance, Croke park for a final, pairing up with other Celtic nations, rugby was on a real high in Ireland at the time. But the simple facts were Ireland and the government were only offering 185 million to play and vague notions of "growing the game" "gateway to america" etc, so we were dead in the water, a waste of everyones time in the eyes of World Rugby.

South Africa came in with 280 mil approx I think, and could have made it to 300 mil which was Frances offer. Laporte got on to someone - Altrad it now seems - guaranteed 350 million and then it was up to World Rugby to ensure the votes fell where they were told.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4364809

Edit: the ramblings of an extremely innocent man. Also havee to agree with the above that he sees himself as a strongman - "this is not a threat but everyone who went against us will be held accountable"

French justice, I.e. Napoleon's Law, is slow and more complex than Common (British) Law. However, it perhaps deals more effectively with outcomes, rather than mere facts. The French Court decisions against Laporte & Altrad's owner.

https://www.the42.ie/bernard-laporte-tw ... 6-Dec2022/

Naturally, this judgement will be appealed but don't hold your breadth, it could be 11 months, I.e after RWC2023, before the French Judge makes his decision. On Appeal, Laporte can stay in office as President of the FFR.

[Ruckedtobits]

BTW, a number of people in Ireland would consider that behaviour such as this was also key in getting votes for France to host RWC23. Laporte was a key figure in the French group who presented their bid (and collected their votes). It's possibly worth examining how many smaller Unions around the world have some Altrad support or advertising.

[TMC]

It was hookey at the time of the award, hasn’t changed in the interim. Ireland was not as safe a place as South Africa? Run that by me again and let’s compare the murder rates. Let’s not forget that South Africa finished first in the evaluation process, Irish cities being ranked lower than charming places like Johannesburg where they’ll kill you with a bicycle spoke for chump change, even Limerick is not that bad. The fact the Irish bid was marked down on things like a lack of WIFI in the stadiums for a competition 6 years in the future stank. Even in this country we can roll out a WIFI system in 5/6 years.

The Irish bid also made the schoolboy error of going with an honest & honourable approach – massive mistake. Global sporting events and the money that sloshes around them give rise to all sorts of corruption. It possibly showed the naivete or of those involved, they expected the competition to be ethical and play by the rules as they intended to do. As if. You only have to look at the farce surrounding the wendyball world cup. Money talks at the end of the day. Laporte was very comfortable with behind the doors “horsetrading” for votes. The Saffas were ultimately undone by the French bribery being better/more generous than theirs. Imagine there are more than a few people who voted in that process who are making sure this evening all their emails from those nice people in Mossack Fonseca letting them know what their current balance is have been deleted; hopefully they’ve not remembered to delete the ones on their cloud backups so there is a smoking gun out there for the prosecutors & someone will be caught and start singing like a canary.

I think it would most likely have been a much more enjoyable fan experience here, the whole country would have gotten involved. Weather would have been cr@p but the craic would have been off the scale. Would have been massive for the game here and for the tourist industry. (Given the current Ukrainian crisis in hindsight maybe not the worst thing we didn’t get it as no hotel rooms to be had) In France it will be evident close to the stadiums, and they might put a Rugby ball on the Eiffel Tower again like they did in 2007 but for vast swathes of the country it wont even register. You go a few RER stops away from Stade de France on the day of an international and you’re the only gimps on the street in jerseys. It now seems like the claims that it would deliver a bigger profit may not prove to be true. Laporte made a couple of political enemies in his time as Minister for Sport, he served under Sarkozy who of course has been found guilty in the French courts since he left office of corruption. I think they'll try to hear his appeal before the World Cup so he wont be allowed to attend. All the chickens coming home to roost now. Egg all over WR’s face.

There is more to come here I suspect. The SA response to this news will be interesting. Rassie to post an hour-long monologue on ethics in sport for starters - with a straight face and unware of the irony.

Jesus wept.

[Ruckedtobits]

Good analysis. One of the realities in France, particularly compared with the UK, is that the country has a fundamental socialist majority which is very evident in their sports media. L'Equipe has been in the vanguard of the Laporte story for two years and they are tenacious when following up.

Altrad is unloved anywhere in French sport. Even in MontP, he is considered an outsider unlike, for instance Pierre Fabre's association with Castres. Despite his demise some years ago, his estate continues to support the Club and supporters continue to honour his memory. Altrad will never generate the same love or respect.

Your comments about the relevance of sport to the French population should be balanced by the reality that rugby is "of the people" south of a line from Bordeaux to Lyons. North of that, soccer dominates. In many ways, Stade de France is in the wrong place, but Paris always wins in regional development discussions.

[TMC]

Your comments about the relevance of sport to the French population should be balanced by the reality that rugby is "of the people" south of a line from Bordeaux to Lyons. North of that, soccer dominates. In many ways, Stade de France is in the wrong place, but Paris always wins in regional development discussions.

IDK, I was in Bordeaux for the Namibia game the last time around in 2007, ok maybe Ireland v Namibia wasn't the biggest draw - good weekend & the less said about the match the better - but it was not that evident away from the stadium there was something on over the course of the weekend in the run up to the game. The presumption seemed to be that you were there as a wine tourist until you mentioned you were there for the rugby. Think it would have been totally different here. Maybe the atmosphere was different in the real rugby heartlands further south. Went back over for the Argie game too, still remember their fans danced so much the Parc des Princes felt like it was shaking, the barstewards, but they totally deserved the win on the day.

[Twist]

It was hookey at the time of the award, hasn’t changed in the interim. Ireland was not as safe a place as South Africa? Run that by me again and let’s compare the murder rates. Let’s not forget that South Africa finished first in the evaluation process, Irish cities being ranked lower than charming places like Johannesburg where they’ll kill you with a bicycle spoke for chump change, even Limerick is not that bad. The fact the Irish bid was marked down on things like a lack of WIFI in the stadiums for a competition 6 years in the future stank. Even in this country we can roll out a WIFI system in 5/6 years.

The Irish bid also made the schoolboy error of going with an honest & honourable approach – massive mistake. Global sporting events and the money that sloshes around them give rise to all sorts of corruption. It possibly showed the naivete or of those involved, they expected the competition to be ethical and play by the rules as they intended to do. As if. You only have to look at the farce surrounding the wendyball world cup. Money talks at the end of the day. Laporte was very comfortable with behind the doors “horsetrading” for votes. The Saffas were ultimately undone by the French bribery being better/more generous than theirs. Imagine there are more than a few people who voted in that process who are making sure this evening all their emails from those nice people in Mossack Fonseca letting them know what their current balance is have been deleted; hopefully they’ve not remembered to delete the ones on their cloud backups so there is a smoking gun out there for the prosecutors & someone will be caught and start singing like a canary.

I think it would most likely have been a much more enjoyable fan experience here, the whole country would have gotten involved. Weather would have been cr@p but the craic would have been off the scale. Would have been massive for the game here and for the tourist industry. (Given the current Ukrainian crisis in hindsight maybe not the worst thing we didn’t get it as no hotel rooms to be had) In France it will be evident close to the stadiums, and they might put a Rugby ball on the Eiffel Tower again like they did in 2007 but for vast swathes of the country it wont even register. You go a few RER stops away from Stade de France on the day of an international and you’re the only gimps on the street in jerseys. It now seems like the claims that it would deliver a bigger profit may not prove to be true. Laporte made a couple of political enemies in his time as Minister for Sport, he served under Sarkozy who of course has been found guilty in the French courts since he left office of corruption. I think they'll try to hear his appeal before the World Cup so he wont be allowed to attend. All the chickens coming home to roost now. Egg all over WR’s face.

There is more to come here I suspect. The SA response to this news will be interesting. Rassie to post an hour-long monologue on ethics in sport for starters - with a straight face and unware of the irony.

Jesus wept.

I totally agree. The whole process stank from the minute they released the evaluation process. Anyway, now the RWC gets to serve as the trial run for the Olympics again. And Parisiens won't give a shite about the tournament.

[riocard911]

It was hookey at the time of the award, hasn’t changed in the interim. Ireland was not as safe a place as South Africa? Run that by me again and let’s compare the murder rates. Let’s not forget that South Africa finished first in the evaluation process, Irish cities being ranked lower than charming places like Johannesburg where they’ll kill you with a bicycle spoke for chump change, even Limerick is not that bad. The fact the Irish bid was marked down on things like a lack of WIFI in the stadiums for a competition 6 years in the future stank. Even in this country we can roll out a WIFI system in 5/6 years.

The Irish bid also made the schoolboy error of going with an honest & honourable approach – massive mistake. Global sporting events and the money that sloshes around them give rise to all sorts of corruption. It possibly showed the naivete or of those involved, they expected the competition to be ethical and play by the rules as they intended to do. As if. You only have to look at the farce surrounding the wendyball world cup. Money talks at the end of the day. Laporte was very comfortable with behind the doors “horsetrading” for votes. The Saffas were ultimately undone by the French bribery being better/more generous than theirs. Imagine there are more than a few people who voted in that process who are making sure this evening all their emails from those nice people in Mossack Fonseca letting them know what their current balance is have been deleted; hopefully they’ve not remembered to delete the ones on their cloud backups so there is a smoking gun out there for the prosecutors & someone will be caught and start singing like a canary.

I think it would most likely have been a much more enjoyable fan experience here, the whole country would have gotten involved. Weather would have been cr@p but the craic would have been off the scale. Would have been massive for the game here and for the tourist industry. (Given the current Ukrainian crisis in hindsight maybe not the worst thing we didn’t get it as no hotel rooms to be had) In France it will be evident close to the stadiums, and they might put a Rugby ball on the Eiffel Tower again like they did in 2007 but for vast swathes of the country it wont even register. You go a few RER stops away from Stade de France on the day of an international and you’re the only gimps on the street in jerseys. It now seems like the claims that it would deliver a bigger profit may not prove to be true. Laporte made a couple of political enemies in his time as Minister for Sport, he served under Sarkozy who of course has been found guilty in the French courts since he left office of corruption. I think they'll try to hear his appeal before the World Cup so he wont be allowed to attend. All the chickens coming home to roost now. Egg all over WR’s face.

There is more to come here I suspect. The SA response to this news will be interesting. Rassie to post an hour-long monologue on ethics in sport for starters - with a straight face and unware of the irony.

Jesus wept.

Great write up, TMC. On the money and most entertaining!

[Morf]

If we had the money to throw around for bribes we certainly would have availed of it.
Bribery works and has done in the awarding of international sporting events.
Acting like Ireland and the IRFU are too upstanding and honourable not to do so is naivete of the highest order.
Not cheating because you cannot isn't honest or honourable.

[Flash Gordon]

If we had the money to throw around for bribes we certainly would have availed of it.
Bribery works and has done in the awarding of international sporting events.
Acting like Ireland and the IRFU are too upstanding and honourable not to do so is naivete of the highest order.
Not cheating because you cannot isn't honest or honourable.

I'd rather not have a world cup than one bought on dishonesty and corruption. One of the differences about rugby is that it teaches people ethics and values. It's also a competitive advantage when pitching for sponsorship - do you really want your brand associated with the corruption of FIFA for example?

[riocard911]

If we had the money to throw around for bribes we certainly would have availed of it.
Bribery works and has done in the awarding of international sporting events.
Acting like Ireland and the IRFU are too upstanding and honourable not to do so is naivete of the highest order.
Not cheating because you cannot isn't honest or honourable.

I'd rather not have a world cup than one bought on dishonesty and corruption. One of the differences about rugby is that it teaches people ethics and values. It's also a competitive advantage when pitching for sponsorship - do you really want your brand associated with the corruption of FIFA for example?

I agree with your point, as I tend towards the idealistic myself, but do you think anyone in France will give a flying **** what Laporte did or didn't do to get the competition to France, if Dupont raises the trophy above his head next Autumn? I don't - and that's the reality of it.

[Ruckedtobits]

At meeting of FFR Committee yesterday, Laporte agreed to "step away" from his presidency until the final legal matters are decided. The FFR will name an interim President on Thursday.

So much for him being 'eligible to continue' during the process of an Appeal. Laporte may truly be on the way out.

https://www.the42.ie/bernard-laporte-tw ... 6-Dec2022/

[Morf]

If we had the money to throw around for bribes we certainly would have availed of it.
Bribery works and has done in the awarding of international sporting events.
Acting like Ireland and the IRFU are too upstanding and honourable not to do so is naivete of the highest order.
Not cheating because you cannot isn't honest or honourable.

I'd rather not have a world cup than one bought on dishonesty and corruption. One of the differences about rugby is that it teaches people ethics and values. It's also a competitive advantage when pitching for sponsorship - do you really want your brand associated with the corruption of FIFA for example?

If Heineken had the money and influence Budweiser (InBev) then they might want to sponsor the FIFA World Cup rather than the latter. They don't so it was InBev's money going to waste in Qatar.

I think you've reinforced my point that it's easy to have morals when you aren't in a realistic or beneficial place to bend or break them.

[Ruckedtobits]

He hasn't gone away you know but nor have the rumours and investigations. The UK isn't the only country with governance problems & suspected corruption at high levels in sports:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/64391140

[Ruckedtobits]

At last, L'Equipe have got the scalp they've been hunting for the past 18 months. I have suspected his corruption for almost a decade but large parts of French Rugby refuse to countenance that prospect.

People like Blanco and others will quietly celebrate his fall into disrepute but with him goes the "spine" which French rugby has used over the past four years to get to the top of the World game. What happens next will influence whether the French national team remains the priority, or will power once again revert to the Top 14 League owners?

https://www.the42.ie/laporte-france-res ... 6-Jan2023/

[Ruckedtobits]

As the biggest "crisis" in Irish Rugby is who Andy Farrell should select to fill the No 12 jersey, French Rugby is front and central in a political battle with the (female) Minister for Sport who has demanded they appoint an Interim President by 6 pm Wednesday or resign as a Committee immediately.

In a lengthy interview with Midi Olympique which I cannot copy through the Subscription Wall, the Minister gives it both barrels that the entire Committee, as a team "which is always how Rugby is played" she said, they had supported Laporte or at least remained dormant whilst "allowing his transgressions". Therefore, they should go for the sake of French Rugby, the international team and the Nation's investment in the World Cup.

Two of the strong candidates for Interim President are female and this has stirred (or sweetened) the pot.

https://www.paudal.com/2023/01/27/frenc ... in-crisis/

This piece gives a good overview up till last Saturday, but things are moving fast.