Ireland V Italy 24th October

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LeinsterLeader
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

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FLIP
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by FLIP »

Garry for scrumhalf. Best 9 service for Ireland that I've seen in a while.
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dropkick
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

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Most enjoyable rugby from an Ireland team I've seen for a long time. Sure Italy are not the best and some kicking has been poor but they look fluid in attack and we don't see the war of attrition that we've seen in recent years. Good stuff.

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munster#1
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by munster#1 »

Ireland need to wake up. Not only do we need a TBP here, but we need a good points difference

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cormac
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by cormac »

JVG will be ringing up POM to wonder where the hell he learned to offload like that.
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wixfjord
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by wixfjord »

Great performance. Really exciting stuff.

Delighted for Connors & Keenan.

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munster#1
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by munster#1 »

Probably not enough to win the championship on points difference, but that was a good performance.

Great see Ireland playing heads up rugby, and playing what is in front of them, something that has been missing for a while.

Great to see so many young lads given a chance, and even better to see them taking their chance.

It is only Italy, so not time to get ahead of ourselves, but I really enjoyed that win.

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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by Dave Cahill »

wixfjord wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 5:28 pm
Great performance. Really exciting stuff.

Delighted for Connors & Keenan.
I'd go more for it being a good performance with some heartening play. Some of the passing was mediocre, to be charitable, but it was after a long lay off

The two lads you name, and all the debutants indeed, had very good games, Another scallion eater in green will please the missus too
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by hugonaut »

dropkick wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 4:23 pm
Most enjoyable rugby from an Ireland team I've seen for a long time. Sure Italy are not the best and some kicking has been poor but they look fluid in attack and we don't see the war of attrition that we've seen in recent years. Good stuff.
I thought we were really good against Wales in February, who are a far, far better team than Italy – World Cup semi-finalists and reigning Six Nations holders when we beat them with a bonus point.

The Italians are tragic. They're terrible. This Italian team is very young, but we always hammer them in the Lansdowne Road fixture. The last three editions of this game have seen us run out winners by an average +40pt margin:

2018: 56-19 | +37pts [8 tries]
2016: 58-15 | +43pts [9 tries]
2014: 46-07 | +39pts [7 tries]

With that said ... a superb performance on debut from Hugo Keenan, who was practically flawless. Very much improved performance and playing style from Conor Murray; it looks like Mike Catt and Farrell have basically told him not to box-kick and to play with a lot more pace.

The Italian tactical kicking game was miserably poor, so we got an awful lot of easy ball under little pressure. It was a real curate's egg performance from Stockdale. He had some great moments with ball in hand, but missed tackles, knock-ons, carrying into touch and buying dummies in defense were all marks against him.

Very happy with Connors, Beirne, Stander and Doris up front – it was a loose game against a lightweight team who can't scrummage or maul at a reasonable standard, and they really thrived in the amount of broken play.

This was a good win, and the players looked quite confident and lively. Really difficult to know how playing in Paris will go for them, but they have given themselves a chance.

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Oldschool
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by Oldschool »

If Stockdale plays next week (particularly at FB) we're screwed.
He as good as told the French coaching ticket, come and exploit me and they will.
Galtiere, Ibanez and Shaun Edwards, enough said.
They'll exploit Sexton inability to react as quickly as he once could.
The French defense are just going to blitz him like Saracens and England have done in recent times.
The real positives were that all the young guys looked ready for this level of competition, France will be a much bigger test.
Stockdale and Keenan should have switched places with 30 mins to go and Sexton should have come off on the hour.
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by munster#1 »

Looks like ringrose will be out for a number of weeks with a broken jaw.
Hopefully he has a speedy recovery.

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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by dropkick »

Oldschool wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 6:12 pm
If Stockdale plays next week (particularly at FB) we're screwed.
He as good as told the French coaching ticket, come and exploit me and they will.
Galtiere, Ibanez and Shaun Edwards, enough said.
They'll exploit Sexton inability to react as quickly as he once could.
The French defense are just going to blitz him like Saracens and England have done in recent times.
The real positives were that all the young guys looked ready for this level of competition, France will be a much bigger test.
Stockdale and Keenan should have switched places with 30 mins to go and Sexton should have come off on the hour.

If Rob Kearney is a bread and butter player, Stockdale is the complete opposite. You get anything but bread and butter.


If France do kick to him they run the risk of him punishing them.


I would stick with him. Realistically we need 4 tries so its better to score 4 tries to 3 than 1 try to 0.


One other important bit of information is England play before us so we'll know what we need to do. Thats an advantage for the team.

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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by Twist »

There was lots I was happy with but why on earth did he leave Sexton on so long?

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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by Ruckedtobits »

dropkick wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 10:23 pm
Oldschool wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 6:12 pm
If Stockdale plays next week (particularly at FB) we're screwed.
He as good as told the French coaching ticket, come and exploit me and they will.
Galtiere, Ibanez and Shaun Edwards, enough said.
They'll exploit Sexton inability to react as quickly as he once could.
The French defense are just going to blitz him like Saracens and England have done in recent times.
The real positives were that all the young guys looked ready for this level of competition, France will be a much bigger test.
Stockdale and Keenan should have switched places with 30 mins to go and Sexton should have come off on the hour.

If Rob Kearney is a bread and butter player, Stockdale is the complete opposite. You get anything but bread and butter.


If France do kick to him they run the risk of him punishing them.


I would stick with him. Realistically we need 4 tries so its better to score 4 tries to 3 than 1 try to 0.


One other important bit of information is England play before us so we'll know what we need to do. Thats an advantage for the team.
On the other hand if they run at Stockdale, they can sell him any sort of sh!t. I don't think I 've seen an Irish back three player in the professional era buy so many dummies at international level.

Stockdale had a wondrous 2018. Since the early weeks of 2019 he has had more poor days than good ones. His fielding is far from faultless. His judgement is dodgy, His tackling is patchy. He only passes on one side.

On the other hand, he can catch almost anything. He can tackle really well on his left side. He can spot space in open play and has the acceleration and pace to take advantage. He has the longest kick on the Irish team. He can read intercepts.

So lots of positives & skills but either lack of concentration or not focussed enough on each particular task makes him a potential liability in games like next week when our chances will be limited and we cannot afford any mistakes to increase their chances.

Pick Keenan or Daly at 15 and use the other on left wing. Jacob needs to learn that playing like he is, he's a luxury we can't afford on big days.

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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by backrower8 »

The English referee had a major bearing on our points difference. The Yellow for Murray was simply wrong and very hastily ajudged.

The penalty against Ryan was very harsh as the Italian was never going to effect a tackle on Stockdale.

In addition, the Italians should have been yellow carded at least once and could easily have been twice.

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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by dropkick »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
October 25th, 2020, 2:17 pm
dropkick wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 10:23 pm
Oldschool wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 6:12 pm
If Stockdale plays next week (particularly at FB) we're screwed.
He as good as told the French coaching ticket, come and exploit me and they will.
Galtiere, Ibanez and Shaun Edwards, enough said.
They'll exploit Sexton inability to react as quickly as he once could.
The French defense are just going to blitz him like Saracens and England have done in recent times.
The real positives were that all the young guys looked ready for this level of competition, France will be a much bigger test.
Stockdale and Keenan should have switched places with 30 mins to go and Sexton should have come off on the hour.

If Rob Kearney is a bread and butter player, Stockdale is the complete opposite. You get anything but bread and butter.


If France do kick to him they run the risk of him punishing them.


I would stick with him. Realistically we need 4 tries so its better to score 4 tries to 3 than 1 try to 0.


One other important bit of information is England play before us so we'll know what we need to do. Thats an advantage for the team.
On the other hand if they run at Stockdale, they can sell him any sort of sh!t. I don't think I 've seen an Irish back three player in the professional era buy so many dummies at international level.

Stockdale had a wondrous 2018. Since the early weeks of 2019 he has had more poor days than good ones. His fielding is far from faultless. His judgement is dodgy, His tackling is patchy. He only passes on one side.

On the other hand, he can catch almost anything. He can tackle really well on his left side. He can spot space in open play and has the acceleration and pace to take advantage. He has the longest kick on the Irish team. He can read intercepts.

So lots of positives & skills but either lack of concentration or not focussed enough on each particular task makes him a potential liability in games like next week when our chances will be limited and we cannot afford any mistakes to increase their chances.

Pick Keenan or Daly at 15 and use the other on left wing. Jacob needs to learn that playing like he is, he's a luxury we can't afford on big days.

I can understand why people want him dropped. He does make some basic mistakes that he shouldn't.


The thing is though, are his mistakes costing more than what he can do going forward? I remember watching South Africa a few years back. Don't know who they were playing but it was a tight game and defenses were well on top. Willie Le Roux (who i always viewed as being error prone) was having a bad game. He tried a few things and nothing seemed to work. However near the end of the match he created a try out of nothing that won the game for SA.
SA would have been better defensively with a more solid fullback but it was such a tight defensive game that having more territory and possession wasn't hurting the opposition.


Against Italy Stockdale looked like tearing them apart on numerous occasions. The line break for the Keenan non try was only one instance but every time he got the ball he looked like creating something. His kicking was also very good apart from the lucky first kick.


They are also using Stockdales left boot strategically as this article highlights.
https://www.the42.ie/conor-murray-box-k ... 0-Oct2020/


Fullback is one of the best attacking positions on the pitch so thats why I would stick with him. It could backfire but I think ireland should be looking to take more chances, within reason. Stockdale is a potential match winner and so that should be weighed up against his weaknesses.


I can see both sides of the argument and its risky but I'd take the gamble on him.

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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

dropkick wrote:
October 26th, 2020, 12:17 am
Ruckedtobits wrote:
October 25th, 2020, 2:17 pm
dropkick wrote:
October 24th, 2020, 10:23 pm



If Rob Kearney is a bread and butter player, Stockdale is the complete opposite. You get anything but bread and butter.


If France do kick to him they run the risk of him punishing them.


I would stick with him. Realistically we need 4 tries so its better to score 4 tries to 3 than 1 try to 0.


One other important bit of information is England play before us so we'll know what we need to do. Thats an advantage for the team.
On the other hand if they run at Stockdale, they can sell him any sort of sh!t. I don't think I 've seen an Irish back three player in the professional era buy so many dummies at international level.

Stockdale had a wondrous 2018. Since the early weeks of 2019 he has had more poor days than good ones. His fielding is far from faultless. His judgement is dodgy, His tackling is patchy. He only passes on one side.

On the other hand, he can catch almost anything. He can tackle really well on his left side. He can spot space in open play and has the acceleration and pace to take advantage. He has the longest kick on the Irish team. He can read intercepts.

So lots of positives & skills but either lack of concentration or not focussed enough on each particular task makes him a potential liability in games like next week when our chances will be limited and we cannot afford any mistakes to increase their chances.

Pick Keenan or Daly at 15 and use the other on left wing. Jacob needs to learn that playing like he is, he's a luxury we can't afford on big days.

I can understand why people want him dropped. He does make some basic mistakes that he shouldn't.


The thing is though, are his mistakes costing more than what he can do going forward? I remember watching South Africa a few years back. Don't know who they were playing but it was a tight game and defenses were well on top. Willie Le Roux (who i always viewed as being error prone) was having a bad game. He tried a few things and nothing seemed to work. However near the end of the match he created a try out of nothing that won the game for SA.
SA would have been better defensively with a more solid fullback but it was such a tight defensive game that having more territory and possession wasn't hurting the opposition.


Against Italy Stockdale looked like tearing them apart on numerous occasions. The line break for the Keenan non try was only one instance but every time he got the ball he looked like creating something. His kicking was also very good apart from the lucky first kick.


They are also using Stockdales left boot strategically as this article highlights.
https://www.the42.ie/conor-murray-box-k ... 0-Oct2020/


Fullback is one of the best attacking positions on the pitch so thats why I would stick with him. It could backfire but I think ireland should be looking to take more chances, within reason. Stockdale is a potential match winner and so that should be weighed up against his weaknesses.


I can see both sides of the argument and its risky but I'd take the gamble on him.
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by Oldschool »

Stockdale is an enigma and the reason for is that he's not switched on 100% of the time.
Good teams will exploit that.
He also needs more time at FB for Ulster.
There's too many "ifs" at this point in his "Stockdale at FB" career.
If we are really going to take chances, why not start with JGP, the best form SH in the country and Byrne who is probably only marginally ahead of Sexton but has one big advantage, the length of his kicks to touch.
With Ringrose out, Farrell is probably our best bet at 13.
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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by ronk »

Stockdale at 15 gives the option of Lowe at 11. Also we need options at 15, it's clearer now that Larmour is hurt.

I really like Lowe, Stockdale and Larmour as a potential back 3. Others may disagree about Conway and Earls.

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Re: Ireland V Italy 24th October

Post by Oldschool »

ronk wrote:
October 26th, 2020, 1:26 pm
Stockdale at 15 gives the option of Lowe at 11. Also we need options at 15, it's clearer now that Larmour is hurt.

I really like Lowe, Stockdale and Larmour as a potential back 3. Others may disagree about Conway and Earls.
ronk wrote:
October 26th, 2020, 1:26 pm
Stockdale at 15 gives the option of Lowe at 11. Also we need options at 15, it's clearer now that Larmour is hurt.

I really like Lowe, Stockdale and Larmour as a potential back 3. Others may disagree about Conway and Earls.
That would be a self destruct button pressed.
One or the other but not both.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

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