South African Rugby

[Up Wexford]

I see Chilliboy Ralepelle has been banned for 8 years for anabolic steroid use. Doping is sport is a pet topic of mine, it'd be great to bounce a few ideas off people and to read other opinions on this!

From a quick look at the headline it seems he was using zeranol, it certainly isn't something we would come across here in Ireland so with a bit of googling it seems it is an anabolic steroid used to bulk up cattle, sold under the brand name Ralgro in the US and RSA (www.ralgro.com for a good giggle at what this guy is injecting into his body.) Zeranol is a estrogen analog and I am 99% sure its use in the EU is banned due to the potential for anabolic steroid use in cattle to cause cancer in humans. RSA (and USA) have different and in some cases more lax laws around this so it would make sense that it would be available in South Africa and very difficult to get in Europe.

Using zeranol in humans is quite interesting. There would be very little, if any clinical research on it at all. Certainly in Ireland, the experts who would use anabolic steroids in humans for very specific and/or niche conditions, for example consultant oncologists or consultant endocrinologists, would not use it, which would lead one to believe that zeranol use was pioneered specifically by "recreational" users, for sport performance or bodybuilding. All of which is to say that zeranol is not your entry level anabolic steroid like testosterone but would be far more likely to be used an administered by someone with a long history of PED use, and comfortable with managing its side effects, cycling dosages etc. Like any endeavour really this would require support, reliable people to import the product, other experts to share ideas, a proper network essentially, which I think is ably provided by South African Rugby.

While I would have a low opinion of drug users in sport I am fascinated by it and I wish more dopers would be honest and feel free to tell us exactly what is happening, (a la Lance/Landis and cycling) - it seems far more interesting. We all know about Craven week in South Africa, and the advantage of underage/untested drug use is you can put on all the massive muscle gains over the course of a few months, cycle off the drugs, and in theory with proper training maintain your freakish musculature for years to come (see: Etzbeth). Using a pejorative term like rotten is unhelpful when trying to get PED users to talk but i think it is common knowledge that South African Rugby is rotten in terms of PED use and I think we would all benefit from looking at this inquisitively and with our eyes wide open.

What I do find very unusual in all this is that Chiliboy Ralepelle and Aphiwe Dyanti are both very high profile, non Afrikaans players who have been pinged and all of the white/Afrikaans players who participate in the very same system have (of the top of my head) not been caught or sanctioned. Unfortunately when analysing certain topics in RSA race relations must always be considered.
*edit. Gerbrandt Grobler obviously. My point re Dyanti and Ralepelle is clunky, I would be happy to discuss it and retract it if needs be

[Up Wexford]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4292820

Hahah looks like Cummiskey got there first and summarised the above far more succintly!

[hugonaut]

I see Chilliboy Ralepelle has been banned for 8 years for anabolic steroid use. Doping is sport is a pet topic of mine, it'd be great to bounce a few ideas off people and to read other opinions on this!

Very interesting post. Just for the sake of clarity here, if I refer to South African rugby I am excluding elements like women's rugby, mini rugby and rugby to approximately U15s level – they all part of South African rugby, but not [to my mind] associated with PED use.

That said, South African rugby seems to have a culture where doping is – on the scale of attitudes in world rugby – relatively tolerated. I am more suspicious of South African players than I am of players from other countries. I think that most people are familiar with the fact that there are positive tests at Craven week every year, numbers as below.

2014: 3 positive tests
2015: 5 "
2016: 4 "
2017: 3 "
2018: 6 "

[source: https://www.rugbyworld.com/news/doping- ... tail-97039 ].

Given that there are 20 teams at Craven week, and you are talking about schoolboys, those are massive numbers. In 2018, as the article states, they performed 122 tests on approximately 450 players and got 6 positives. The best case scenario is that they caught all 6 PED users in those 122 tests, and the worst case scenario is if they had tested all 450 players they would have got a proportional amount of positives, i.e. 22 players out of 450. At schoolboy level.

[neiliog93]

With cycling on and off steroids, masking agents, 'designer' steroids etc., the flaws inherent with tests, it is not very difficult to pass a test even as a doper. I would say the real numbers of South African kids doing gear is far higher.

It is amazing how in denial and defensive South Africans are about the issue. They accuse anyone who points it out of jealousy and try to make the claim that they're actually some sort of genetically superior race by pointing to Dutch height stats etc. The Dutch might have a tall average height but I lived there for a year and never saw any jacked 110-130kg 17-yr olds!

[FLIP]

With cycling on and off steroids, masking agents, 'designer' steroids etc., the flaws inherent with tests, it is not very difficult to pass a test even as a doper. I would say the real numbers of South African kids doing gear is far higher.

It is amazing how in denial and defensive South Africans are about the issue. They accuse anyone who points it out of jealousy and try to make the claim that they're actually some sort of genetically superior race by pointing to Dutch height stats etc. The Dutch might have a tall average height but I lived there for a year and never saw any jacked 110-130kg 17-yr olds!

Having worked over there a lot, they're tall but they're also thin.

[neiliog93]

With cycling on and off steroids, masking agents, 'designer' steroids etc., the flaws inherent with tests, it is not very difficult to pass a test even as a doper. I would say the real numbers of South African kids doing gear is far higher.

It is amazing how in denial and defensive South Africans are about the issue. They accuse anyone who points it out of jealousy and try to make the claim that they're actually some sort of genetically superior race by pointing to Dutch height stats etc. The Dutch might have a tall average height but I lived there for a year and never saw any jacked 110-130kg 17-yr olds!

Having worked over there a lot, they're tall but they're also thin.

Exactly. This is only a personal anecdote, but I am a committed (but by no means particularly impressive) gym-goer, and I rarely saw anyone bigger than me during my year in Holland, but even in Dublin would see a few when walking down any busy street.

The other common South African riposte to doping accusations is to indirectly concede that they have a doping problem, but then say that it's the same everywhere else, and their guys are bigger because they're genetically superior. There is of course doping in all rugby countries, but the drugs are much more readily available in their less regulated pharmaceutical industry, and there is a notably greater cultural acceptance/encouragement of use of anabolics in SA than in other rugby countries. Thus, the overall rate of use, and systemic encouragement of it, is a much bigger problem in SA than elsewhere.

[ronk]

Not a fan of the walking down the street test. Saw loads of really built lads in Glasgow and Poland. Probably none of them had played any rugby.

In SA more of the big guys play rugby. SA exports a huge huge amount of rugby players. Many fringe rugby players here would make more money by quitting and getting a longer term career. Doesn't mesh with taking drugs.

If you're thinking of solid cash in Europe then you might be taking more risks.

[Up Wexford]

Mindset seems to be big thing. If doping is as commonplace as all the evidence suggests, a drug user should feel 5 or ten per cent safer to come forward at least. The strict denials and lying in the face of evidence is common across all sports and cultures, not just South Africa. Whenever I have "delicately " brought it up with a SA fan the always come back with some version of Ireland are cr@p at rugby instead of any look at their team

The Craven week numbers are gas. I'm not actually familiar with the tournament, and it has far more positive attributes to it than the negatives of drug use. From a glance it seems a great talent mine, a prestigious high quality tournament, and Dr Danie Craven who it is named after it is a genuinely impressive guy, again from what limited knowlege I have of him from Stephen Jones' writing. I think it would be helpful for players to come forward with their experiences there to give us on the outside a clearer view of how it all works.

And I think doping can only get you so far.. you cant take a pill to make you slot the ball better like Steyn or Jannie De Beer or become a better lineout tactician like Matfield. But because rugby is so physical, especially nowadays, your doping gains would be more effective in rugby.

[Ruckedtobits]

World Rugby have thrown the book at Rassie and banned him from "hands-on" involvement until 30th Sept 2022. Rugbypass carried this story:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rassie-e ... pringboks/

SA Rugby have 7 days to appeal. With none of their 0layers listed as candidates for World Player 2021, temperatures are very high on the veldt at present and many will be surprised if they don't appeal.

[FLIP]

World Rugby have thrown the book at Rassie and banned him from "hands-on" involvement until 30th Sept 2022. Rugbypass carried this story:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rassie-e ... pringboks/

SA Rugby have 7 days to appeal. With none of their 0layers listed as candidates for World Player 2021, temperatures are very high on the veldt at present and many will be surprised if they don't appeal.

To clarify - 2 months without any involvement in any rugby activity, with involvement in matchday with the Boks banned until October 2022.

Very much throwing the book at him, but the real question is - why did this take so long? It should have been done during the Lions tour as his video did affect the refereeing outcomes for the other two games.

[CiaranIrl]

The statement from Nic Berry is very powerful. I didn't realize that there were threatening emails to him before the video was released. What a colossal asshole.

"Needless to say, the whole situation has been an extremely difficult time for my family and me. As a match official I understand that our performances will be heavily scrutinised, especially in such a prestigious tournament. However, the public attack on my integrity and character is not something that should be tolerated in any workplace.

"... I considered officiating in a Lions tour comparable with that in a World Cup. The appointment is a honour which few achieve. However, due to the actions of Mr Erasmus, my family and I have endured a significant amount of distress and we will only have negative memories of the whole experience.

I feel that Mr Erasmus engaged in a character assassination of me on social media. I have spent many years trying to build my reputation as an international referee and in the course of his video which was posted online, Mr Erasmus has caused it immeasurable damage. Though a small proportion of the rugby community will follow the outcome of this matter, and in the process obtain an accurate account of what really occurred, the wider rugby community will only be aware of me in the context of this incident. I feel that regardless of the outcome and any sanctions imposed, my reputation as a referee and person will forever be tarnished.

Throughout Mr Erasmus' video he makes unsubstantiated claims about the incidents that occurred in the 72hrs after the first test match which I refereed. Throughout this whole ordeal I've maintained my professionalism despite being the target of an unprecedented personal attack played out in the media. The evidence attached is an accurate and detailed account of what really happened and should assist World Rugby in their judicial hearing into the matter.

I felt that Mr Erasmus' video brought into question my professionalism and my integrity as a match official and that there was an inference to be drawn that I was in some way cheating as an official, which is obviously completely untrue.

My reputation throughout the rugby community has suffered immeasurably from his actions and I acknowledge that the impending investigation will likely lead to more public scrutiny and unwanted media attention. However, his actions are against everything our game stands for and I feel it's important to take a stand against such behaviour. I sincerely hope that the outcome of the independent judicial hearing will set a precedent to discourage similar behaviour in the future so that no person has to experience what I have these past few weeks."

[blockhead]

Should we be suprised by his behaviour?
No. Remember when he ran off on Munster, making them look like the ugliest bride in the village?
He promised he'd stay and be loyal but all that time he was plotting his way back too his first love.
As it turned out, he was a really good coach, Munster would be a good team by now, cheatin bastid.

[riocard911]

Rassie disgraced himself in front of the whole rugby world. World Rugby have confirmed this and stuck up for Nic Berry, which I am pleased about. I wrote to World Rugby - as I'm sure many did - at the time, giving out bangers about Rassie bringing the game into disrepute and making a mockery of the sport's "values". I'm glad to see WR haven't let him get away with it.

[fourthirtythree]

No biggie. South Africa will just get another waterboy.


Don't know what the fuss is over.

[hugonaut]

Should we be suprised by his behaviour?
No. Remember when he ran off on Munster, making them look like the ugliest bride in the village?
He promised he'd stay and be loyal but all that time he was plotting his way back too his first love.
As it turned out, he was a really good coach, Munster would be a good team by now, cheatin bastid.

Erasmus is a very charismatic guy and an excellent coach. I have little doubt that he will say that he did what he did for the sake of his team and for his country. And he probably did - no doubt there was a good bit of his own ego involved, but I'd sat there was a real element of doing whatever it took for South Africa.

But he said [or his words through his lawyer's statement] that he didn't leak the video, and I think that's a lie. He might hide behind some sophistry about what 'leak' means, but he meant for it to get out and it did. And he lied about leaving with Munster - lied to the Munster players, lied through the media about it etc. His word doesn't mean much.

His actions significantly damaged the game and the respect that referees have always held in the sport. From 'anecdata' evidence, I have never heard as many people b*tch and moan about refereeing as I have in the last four months, and it's all for the worse. Referees need a high level of respect to oversee a game that is very tough to arbitrate purely because of its nature and variety. He has set an appalling example and he deserves to be censured for his actions.

[CiaranIrl]

Judging from the reaction from his supporters, he has brought the South African rugby rugby following community into disrepute as well. Not that he gives a sh!t.

https://twitter.com/thenosyone987/statu ... RJcLA&s=08

[Dave Cahill]

Erasmus is a very charismatic guy and an excellent coach. I have little doubt that he will say that he did what he did for the sake of his team and for his country. And he probably did - no doubt there was a good bit of his own ego involved, but I'd sat there was a real element of doing whatever it took for South Africa.

But he said [or his words through his lawyer's statement] that he didn't leak the video, and I think that's a lie. He might hide behind some sophistry about what 'leak' means, but he meant for it to get out and it did. And he lied about leaving with Munster - lied to the Munster players, lied through the media about it etc. His word doesn't mean much.

His actions significantly damaged the game and the respect that referees have always held in the sport. From 'anecdata' evidence, I have never heard as many people b*tch and moan about refereeing as I have in the last four months, and it's all for the worse. Referees need a high level of respect to oversee a game that is very tough to arbitrate purely because of its nature and variety. He has set an appalling example and he deserves to be censured for his actions.

Theres a duality to Erasmus (perhaps thats why he has two Twitter accounts!) that always seems to emerge. In the aftermath of Anthony Foley's death he led the province very well, dignified and with great decorum in a very difficult time. Then he flat out lies to the faces of the Munster players about his future plans. Again, in 2019, he led South Africa to the World Cup title in exemplary manner. Then this. It seems to me that his better angels just bugger off on their holibobs every so often and carnage ensues. For me though, the worst thing is the opportunistic attempt to make this a racial issue on foot of what is currently happening in English cricket. His proxies in the SA media are running with this topic right now and I have no doubt where it is coming from.

[riocard911]

Does this now mean we're up for the Charioteers at the weekend? Not sure, what I think about that....

[ronk]

He says the right thing when it suits him to say the right thing. But he also lies effortlessly and futily. He's a massive coward. He dressed up the demotion of Foley, he pretended he wasn't leaving and he hid behind a sockpuppet to intimidate a ref.

His leadership of Munster in grieving should be seen for what it was, shallow exploitation of a tragedy. Erasmus wanted rid of Foley but wasn't brave enough/didn't have enough pull to pull the trigger so he sidelined him.

JvG did the same with Felix Jones and Jerry Flannery. Replaced but not sacked, so they left before they were pushed. But they knew what was happening because they'd seen it before.

[ronk]

South Africa were underdogs at the RWC, there was no pressure, they stayed under the radar.

The Lions was a bigger deal in terms of hype and more pressure at home. And his mask slipped when he was under pressure after losing the first test.