South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

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MylesNaGapoleen
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South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... d-Cup.html

Secret "talks" have been going on for a while apparently.
Not a fan of the daily mail but I remember they were the first to expose the Saracens* fiddley-diddly salaries.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I hate this for a lot of reasons but I think that it either won't happen or will only last about a year before the other tier one countries join and it becomes the World League thing that World Rugby wanted.

I'm sick of these constant changes to tournaments and forced relationships. There needs to be a complete plan drawn up for clubs, countries, underage, men's, women's, and tv around the world with the idea that it all starts in 5 years or something and doesn't change for at least 30 years. I get that unions/clubs are chasing cash but I think that long term thinking is far more important than the next big contract and there's a desperate need for a holistic approach to this.

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MylesNaGapoleen
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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I hate this for a lot of reasons but I think that it either won't happen or will only last about a year before the other tier one countries join and it becomes the World League thing that World Rugby wanted.

I'm sick of these constant changes to tournaments and forced relationships. There needs to be a complete plan drawn up for clubs, countries, underage, men's, women's, and tv around the world with the idea that it all starts in 5 years or something and doesn't change for at least 30 years. I get that unions/clubs are chasing cash but I think that long term thinking is far more important than the next big contract and there's a desperate need for a holistic approach to this.
agreed. And I think you might be right about the world league. money talks, eh.
in the same breath, I was sorta hoping argentina joined the 6n back in the 90s when it was mooted...they would have used barcelona as their "home" venue. Never came to pass and they joined the championship obviously and kicked on from there.

Lets see what happens. I notice the CVC deal fell through recently...so this might have been part or related to those discussions and will fall through as well.

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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by Logorrhea »

If South Africa were to join us up here (not going to happen of course), there clubs would have to play to the same season as us wouldn't they?

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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by neiliog93 »

Really hope this doesn't happen, complicates things geographically and is against the history of the tournament. Also, an at least decently strong southern hemisphere is in the interests of the game globally.
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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by Morf »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:There needs to be a complete plan drawn up for clubs, countries, underage, men's, women's, and tv around the world with the idea that it all starts in 5 years or something and doesn't change for at least 30 years.
A bit like politicians having no interest in policies for 10-15-20 years . . . what's the point if you can't been seen launching or celebrating the results of it?

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MylesNaGapoleen
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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

neiliog93 wrote:Really hope this doesn't happen, complicates things geographically and is against the history of the tournament. Also, an at least decently strong southern hemisphere is in the interests of the game globally.
I agree.
wouldn't a mini tournament in November be better?
Top 2 of the 6N play the top 2 of the RC, with a third match as a sort of decider.
I hear more SA teams want to join the Pro14....so that could scale up into a bigger league but SA in the 6N doesn't hit any buttons for me.

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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by Morf »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:Really hope this doesn't happen, complicates things geographically and is against the history of the tournament. Also, an at least decently strong southern hemisphere is in the interests of the game globally.
I agree.
wouldn't a mini tournament in November be better?
Top 2 of the 6N play the top 2 of the RC, with a third match as a sort of decider.
I hear more SA teams want to join the Pro14....so that could scale up into a bigger league but SA in the 6N doesn't hit any buttons for me.
And how do Tier 2 teams get exposure/ranking points/cash if we lock away those high profile/ranking teams?

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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

Morf wrote:
MylesNaGapoleen wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:Really hope this doesn't happen, complicates things geographically and is against the history of the tournament. Also, an at least decently strong southern hemisphere is in the interests of the game globally.
I agree.
wouldn't a mini tournament in November be better?
Top 2 of the 6N play the top 2 of the RC, with a third match as a sort of decider.
I hear more SA teams want to join the Pro14....so that could scale up into a bigger league but SA in the 6N doesn't hit any buttons for me.
And how do Tier 2 teams get exposure/ranking points/cash if we lock away those high profile/ranking teams?
If the top2 from the 6N and RC play that mini tournament.... Isn't there scope for the 3rx & 4th6n teams to play similar with emerging nations in Nov?

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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by Morf »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote:
Morf wrote:And how do Tier 2 teams get exposure/ranking points/cash if we lock away those high profile/ranking teams?
If the top2 from the 6N and RC play that mini tournament.... Isn't there scope for the 3rx & 4th6n teams to play similar with emerging nations in Nov?
Much less and it's not like they get much options in June/November.

It's starving those developing nations another way but still with the same result.

Distilling and consolidating the product is only good for what's left in the test tube not what you've drained off or never included to begin with.

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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by ronk »

Morf wrote:
MylesNaGapoleen wrote:
Morf wrote:And how do Tier 2 teams get exposure/ranking points/cash if we lock away those high profile/ranking teams?
If the top2 from the 6N and RC play that mini tournament.... Isn't there scope for the 3rx & 4th6n teams to play similar with emerging nations in Nov?
Much less and it's not like they get much options in June/November.

It's starving those developing nations another way but still with the same result.

Distilling and consolidating the product is only good for what's left in the test tube not what you've drained off or never included to begin with.
Not how distilling works

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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by artaneboy »

ronk wrote:
Morf wrote:
MylesNaGapoleen wrote: If the top2 from the 6N and RC play that mini tournament.... Isn't there scope for the 3rx & 4th6n teams to play similar with emerging nations in Nov?
Much less and it's not like they get much options in June/November.

It's starving those developing nations another way but still with the same result.

Distilling and consolidating the product is only good for what's left in the test tube not what you've drained off or never included to begin with.
Not how distilling works
Correct. That’s “Reduction”.


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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by Oldschool »

ronk wrote:
Morf wrote: Distilling and consolidating the product is only good for what's left in the test tube not what you've drained off or never included to begin with.
Not how distilling works
So somebody is left with the dregs while the good stuff has evaporated to where?
Methinks this could be another (backdoor) attempt at a global international competition.
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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by RoboProp »

Will the doping policy be amended beforehand?
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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by Ruckedtobits »

This is precisely the sort of 'profit-oriented' cr@p I expected when the CVC advances commenced. They have no regard for the game, or the supporters, or the participants, only how they can change the 'commodity' and package it for more profit.

The logic of combining the Autumn Internationals and 6N competitions must inevitably diminish the 6 Nations. Doing so will commence the decline of this unique competition which, uniquely, funds everything in Irish rugby. Changing the economics of this competitions threatens our capacity to support the game in this country. Anybody in Irish rugby who concedes the principle of maintaining the 6N will be directly responsible for the demise of the Irish professional rugby model.

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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by Morf »

artaneboy wrote:
ronk wrote:Not how distilling works
Correct. That’s “Reduction”.


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Grand semantics aside it's still taking the best most profitable bit, squeezing every last dollar out of it then dumping it too.

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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by The Doc »

Morf wrote:
artaneboy wrote:
ronk wrote:Not how distilling works
Correct. That’s “Reduction”.


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Grand semantics aside it's still taking the best most profitable bit, squeezing every last dollar out of it then dumping it too.
Would that not be "mining" :twisted:
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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by Flash Gordon »

It makes a lot of sense from their perspective. Same time zone so TV works and with that the associated sponsorship revenues; they have access to the 2nd richest market in the world (Europe) vs NZ, Oz and bankrupt Argentina; They could select players based in Europe (of which there are many) and they'd earn in hard currency. From our side, they are the RWC holders and a big draw, there are lots of Saffers in Europe that would travel to games and we have access to their market (it's not enormous but GDP is the same as ours. So there are many reasons why this is a good idea.

BUT we need to be careful about constant change and reformatting. For us, the 6 Nations drives everything in Irish rugby, without it there would be no Ireland or Leinster. We've al lseen how previously prestigious tournaments like the FA Cup, Test cricket or the EUFA/Cup Winners Cup have collapsed in their importance economically and in terms of status. We lose the 6 Nations and we lose everything.
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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Flash Gordon wrote:It makes a lot of sense from their perspective. Same time zone so TV works and with that the associated sponsorship revenues; they have access to the 2nd richest market in the world (Europe) vs NZ, Oz and bankrupt Argentina; They could select players based in Europe (of which there are many) and they'd earn in hard currency. From our side, they are the RWC holders and a big draw, there are lots of Saffers in Europe that would travel to games and we have access to their market (it's not enormous but GDP is the same as ours. So there are many reasons why this is a good idea.

BUT we need to be careful about constant change and reformatting. For us, the 6 Nations drives everything in Irish rugby, without it there would be no Ireland or Leinster. We've al lseen how previously prestigious tournaments like the FA Cup, Test cricket or the EUFA/Cup Winners Cup have collapsed in their importance economically and in terms of status. We lose the 6 Nations and we lose everything.
IRFU & WRU Committees agreed last weekend that they were both emphatically opposed to ANY alteration in 6N format

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Re: South Africa to join the 6N in 2024?

Post by artaneboy »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
Flash Gordon wrote:It makes a lot of sense from their perspective. Same time zone so TV works and with that the associated sponsorship revenues; they have access to the 2nd richest market in the world (Europe) vs NZ, Oz and bankrupt Argentina; They could select players based in Europe (of which there are many) and they'd earn in hard currency. From our side, they are the RWC holders and a big draw, there are lots of Saffers in Europe that would travel to games and we have access to their market (it's not enormous but GDP is the same as ours. So there are many reasons why this is a good idea.

BUT we need to be careful about constant change and reformatting. For us, the 6 Nations drives everything in Irish rugby, without it there would be no Ireland or Leinster. We've al lseen how previously prestigious tournaments like the FA Cup, Test cricket or the EUFA/Cup Winners Cup have collapsed in their importance economically and in terms of status. We lose the 6 Nations and we lose everything.
IRFU & WRU Committees agreed last weekend that they were both emphatically opposed to ANY alteration in 6N format
Did they? Well all we need now is for the SRU to make a similar declaration and we’d really know that we’re f#*ked!


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