Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

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wixfjord
Shane Jennings
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Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by wixfjord »

Side I'd go for:
Healy, Herring, Porter, Ryan, Henderson, POM, VDF, Stander, Cooney, Sexton, Stockdale, Henshaw, Farrell, Conway, Larmour
McGrath, Kelleher, Furlong, Toner, Deegan, Murray, Byrne, Earls

Unlikely to see Aki dropped, but I just think his handling stilts our attack even more than normal. Would like to see Addison in at 13 potentially, but not for a game like this.
Stander played well enough to keep his position with Doris out and I think POM is still a better 6 than Deegan, just.

betty swallocks
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by betty swallocks »

Little chance of Farrell replacing Aki, although I think Henshaw could start 12 with Aki at 13 for this one and Addison before Earls on the bench.

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by Dave Cahill »

We aren't going to bosh our way through the Welsh centres, they're too good and too powerful for that. We need footwork, and that means either Larmour or Addison, with the other at full back. The big problem is that whoever plays there makes the choices for the defensive line and neither have much experience in that position in this system which means that Farrell will probably go with an Aki-Henshaw pairing.

My team, which won't be picked
Healy, Herring, Furlong, Ryan, Henderson, Stander, VDF, Deegan, McGrath, Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Larmour, Conway, Addison.
McGrath, Kelleher, Porter, Toner, Connors, Murray, Byrne, Henshaw.
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wixfjord
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by wixfjord »

Dave Cahill wrote:We aren't going to bosh our way through the Welsh centres, they're too good and too powerful for that. We need footwork, and that means either Larmour or Addison, with the other at full back. The big problem is that whoever plays there makes the choices for the defensive line and neither have much experience in that position in this system which means that Farrell will probably go with an Aki-Henshaw pairing.

My team, which won't be picked
Healy, Herring, Furlong, Ryan, Henderson, Stander, VDF, Deegan, McGrath, Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Larmour, Conway, Addison.
McGrath, Kelleher, Porter, Toner, Connors, Murray, Byrne, Henshaw.
No way would I throw Larmour in at 13 for a game like this.
If you were going that way it would surely have to be Addison in that jersey, has played far more rugby there.

Ruckedtobits
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by Ruckedtobits »

This is a Tournament Competition so let's treat it like one. Healy and Furlong had to make major withdrawals on their energy reserves on Saturday so I'd start with McGrath, Kelleher and Porter with Ryan and Toner in the row. CJ and PO'M will probably be retained and possibly with Jack O'Donoghue, based on current Provincial form and needing to keep Tipuric away from the ball at the breakdown.

Murray & Sexton to start again and I'd keep Bundee at No 12 and give Addison a run at 13. Earls and Stockdale on the wings with Larmour keeping the 15 shirt.

Herring, Healy and Furlong to join the fray on 45 minutes and Cooney on 50 mins. Henderson likewise at 45 minutes with JVdF at 50, the same time as Henshaw and, finally, Ross Bryne at 60 mins to bring it home.

Ireland by 26 - 18 with a better refereeing performance. Our maul to be significantly improved by Dev's inclusion. Likewise our scrum, because of Jack McGrath's efforts to convince the Nation that his endeavours with the Lions are now a thing of the past. Bundee and Addison, aided by J10 and Mike Catt, will out-think Biggar and the Welsh centres, whilst Earlsy will keep Adams scoreless.

Pivac's teams play like the Scarlets in 2017-8. Ireland should play like Leinster played Scarlets in the EPCR semi-final in 2018, not like Leinster or Munster in 2017 Pro 14 knock-out games. Looking forward to it already.

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Oldschool
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by Oldschool »

Ruckedtobits wrote:This is a Tournament Competition so let's treat it like one. Healy and Furlong had to make major withdrawals on their energy reserves on Saturday so I'd start with McGrath, Kelleher and Porter with Ryan and Toner in the row. CJ and PO'M will probably be retained and possibly with Jack O'Donoghue, based on current Provincial form and needing to keep Tipuric away from the ball at the breakdown.

Murray & Sexton to start again and I'd keep Bundee at No 12 and give Addison a run at 13. Earls and Stockdale on the wings with Larmour keeping the 15 shirt.

Herring, Healy and Furlong to join the fray on 45 minutes and Cooney on 50 mins. Henderson likewise at 45 minutes with JVdF at 50, the same time as Henshaw and, finally, Ross Bryne at 60 mins to bring it home.

Ireland by 26 - 18 with a better refereeing performance. Our maul to be significantly improved by Dev's inclusion. Likewise our scrum, because of Jack McGrath's efforts to convince the Nation that his endeavours with the Lions are now a thing of the past. Bundee and Addison, aided by J10 and Mike Catt, will out-think Biggar and the Welsh centres, whilst Earlsy will keep Adams scoreless.

Pivac's teams play like the Scarlets in 2017-8. Ireland should play like Leinster played Scarlets in the EPCR semi-final in 2018, not like Leinster or Munster in 2017 Pro 14 knock-out games. Looking forward to it already.
If Murray starts we'll lose, everything else you are suggesting won't matter.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

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hugonaut
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by hugonaut »

wixfjord wrote:Side I'd go for:
Healy, Herring, Porter, Ryan, Henderson, POM, VDF, Stander, Cooney, Sexton, Stockdale, Henshaw, Farrell, Conway, Larmour
McGrath, Kelleher, Furlong, Toner, Deegan, Murray, Byrne, Earls

Unlikely to see Aki dropped, but I just think his handling stilts our attack even more than normal. Would like to see Addison in at 13 potentially, but not for a game like this.
Stander played well enough to keep his position with Doris out and I think POM is still a better 6 than Deegan, just.
I thought that Aki looked sharp, quick and strong on Saturday. He and Henshaw have experience of playing together and looked very lively in the last game we played against Wales [the warm-up game in Lansdowne Road in September].

Healy played a lot of the Scottish match [67 minutes as opposed to his usual 50] and looked really, really tired by the end of it. It's a short turnaround for him and Jack McGrath has done well enough for Ulster this season that I'd have no fears at all about him starting. Same logic goes for Furlong [78 mins] at tighthead - Porter has been doing the business for Leinster, so put him in to start.

I think Josh is carrying a knock and that Connors might be called in from the start. Just a hunch.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I've the same concerns as RTB about the energy levels and the breakdown but I'm not sure how we fix either of them. Porter and Toner are obvious changes in the front five but it sounds like the team will be unchanged apart from POM and Henshaw.

The back row really worries me though regardless of who we pick. We desperately need CJ to put in a repeat performance and on the last year of evidence you'd have to say that's unlikely, and we don't have any back row who can melt rucks like someone like SOB used to do. Wales will be even harder to move off the ball than Scotland were and I don't think there's an obvious candidate for the bench. I'd have Rhys starting or on the bench but that's irrelevant because he's not in the squad. If Joey was available then I'd actually go for a 6-2 split (which I really hate) but we can't do that either.

With no Ringrose I think Addison has to be involved as a play-making option but I'm not as against the Aki and Henshaw partnership as everyone else seems to be so wouldn't have him at centre and would put him on the bench. I'm not Aki's biggest fan but with Ringrose injured I think it has to be those two. With our lack of carriers up front and the potential for them being tired then I really hope we use them as battering rams more often and get the wingers more involved as well. Believe me I don't want to reduce them (especially Robbie) to battering rams but I think we're going to need them to do a lot of dirty work this weekend.

North isn't a good defender at 13 and his passing is poor under pressure so hopefully Robbie can get in his face and Conway and Stockdale can get in his eye line and force some poor passes. That's one area I do think we can exploit, and Parkes isn't in the same form as a year ago. Faletau was (understandably) quiet for them the other day too.

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Oldschool
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by Oldschool »

Lads you're fiddling while Rome burns or is it the band played on while the Titanic sank.
Murray is the elephant in the room that most of you seem to be afraid to address.
The various points/suggestions re the pack are all worthy topics for discussion.
However when the ball gets to the Murray, It'lll hit a time warp, slow down and when it does re-emerge the Welsh will be waiting.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

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Oldschool
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by Oldschool »

To address the FR issues, it proved very fortunate that Porter was able to play both sides of the scrum.
A starting FR of McGrath Herring and Furlong would be fine with Healy Kelleher and Porter on the bench.
Ryan, Henderson as is.
CJ, JVDF and Deegan to start with Ruddock on the bench.
If Pom starts anyone who has a ticket can go home early.
Doris' injury really mucked up Andy's succession plans, it's a real pity that Deegan wasn't on the bench as some of our in the know scribes had suggested might be the case.
Last edited by Oldschool on February 3rd, 2020, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Oldschool wrote:Lads you're fiddling while Rome burns or is it the band played on while the Titanic sank.
Murray is the elephant in the room that most of you seem to be afraid to address.
The various points/suggestions re the pack are all worthy topics for discussion.
However when the ball gets to the Murray, It'lll hit a time warp, slow down and when it does re-emerge the Welsh will be waiting.
Well the rest is more important because if there's no platform for the scrumhalf then it doesn't matter if it's Murray, Cooney, or Mike Ross at 9.

What did you think improved about our game when Cooney game on? I didn't think anything did really because we still didn't have much ball and the forwards were being dominated.

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RoboProp
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by RoboProp »

Oldschool wrote:To address the FR issues, it proved very fortunate that Porter was able to play both sides of the scrum.
A starting FR of McGrath Herring and Furlong would be fine with Healy Kelleher and Porter on the bench.
Ryan, Henderson as is.
CJ, JVDF and Deegan to start with Ruddock on the bench.
If Pom starts anyone who has a ticket can go home early.
Doris' injury really mucked up Andy's succession plans, it's a real pity that Deegan wasn't on the bench as some of our in the know scribes had suggested might be the case.
Murray is not the force he once was, he's more than a reasonable facsimile to a chorus girl these days. and a one and a two and a box kick. Cha cha cha.

He could really snooker the oppo one day if decides to make a line break or pass the ball speedily
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Oldschool
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by Oldschool »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
Oldschool wrote:Lads you're fiddling while Rome burns or is it the band played on while the Titanic sank.
Murray is the elephant in the room that most of you seem to be afraid to address.
The various points/suggestions re the pack are all worthy topics for discussion.
However when the ball gets to the Murray, It'lll hit a time warp, slow down and when it does re-emerge the Welsh will be waiting.
Well the rest is more important because if there's no platform for the scrumhalf then it doesn't matter if it's Murray, Cooney, or Mike Ross at 9.

What did you think improved about our game when Cooney game on? I didn't think anything did really because we still didn't have much ball and the forwards were being dominated.
If you have ever played in a pack that has won ball, got it to the SH/OH and looked up to see the ball going in the wrong direction then you'll know what I'm getting at.
Scotland were given oxygen long before Cooney got on the pitch.
However to answer your question, Cooney didn't give away a stupid intercept or an even dummer penalty.
The type of things that just burn a teams momentum and confidence.
He handled the last few seconds of the game by reacting quickly, left to Murray and that time lag, it's likely we'd have been in trouble, conceded a peno and handed Scotland a last chance at getting a draw.
BTW Farrell is to be commended for subbing Murray off after that peno. That was a real positive IMHO.
And BTW you still haven't addressed Murray's impact on the performance of the national team.
In fact you just fudged it.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

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desperado
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by desperado »

Oldschool wrote:Lads you're fiddling while Rome burns or is it the band played on while the Titanic sank.
Murray is the elephant in the room that most of you seem to be afraid to address.
The various points/suggestions re the pack are all worthy topics for discussion.
However when the ball gets to the Murray, It'lll hit a time warp, slow down and when it does re-emerge the Welsh will be waiting.
I'd have to agree that Murrays current form is a major issue. I know OS you wont agree with me but Luke McGrath should be the solution. I'm not fully convinced by Cooney in his primary role of SH. Neither do I agree with the re-surfacing of 'McGrath's pass is sh1t' mantra. You mention elsewhere about bringing in Ruddock, but was he not dropped from the squad? I found it interesting that the press (IT) had it that Will Connors was added to the squad proper; with Baird and Balacoune sent back to their provinces. Connors is hardly a bolter for the Welsh match??? VDF is getting a bit of a flogging, and looked to be carrying an injury in the second half. For me: McGrath, Herring, Porter, Toner, Ryan, Stander, VDF, Deegan, McGrath, Sexton, Stockdale, Henshaw, Addison, Conway, Larmour. Healy, Kelleher, Furlong, Henderson, POM, Cooney, Byrne, Earls.

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ronk
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by ronk »

On the day the squad needs 5 backrows: 3 starters, 1 sub and 1 sub-sub.

Connors is probably not that far off the team and with Doris possibly out we need him as sub-sub at the worst.

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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by TrapperChamonix »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
Pivac's teams play like the Scarlets in 2017-8. Ireland should play like Leinster played Scarlets in the EPCR semi-final in 2018, not like Leinster or Munster in 2017 Pro 14 knock-out games. Looking forward to it already.
I'm fascinated as to what approach Pivac takes. I always felt that when Joe got the Irish job, he looked at the players and the increased demands of International rugby felt that he needed to adjust his approach. What way will Pivac go?
Never argue with an idiot. Someone looking on may not be able tell the difference

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Oldschool
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by Oldschool »

TrapperChamonix wrote:
Ruckedtobits wrote:
Pivac's teams play like the Scarlets in 2017-8. Ireland should play like Leinster played Scarlets in the EPCR semi-final in 2018, not like Leinster or Munster in 2017 Pro 14 knock-out games. Looking forward to it already.
I'm fascinated as to what approach Pivac takes. I always felt that when Joe got the Irish job, he looked at the players and the increased demands of International rugby felt that he needed to adjust his approach. What way will Pivac go?
Scarlet's backs were very good under Pivac.
Welsh backs are better so he'll make them better again.
The bonus for him is that the Welsh pack are likely to deliver more ball.
It's likely he'll use Edwards inherited defensive system.
Wales could develop into a more dangerous team.
The downside for him is Wyn Jones is nearing the end of his career, he'll be hard to replace.
On top of that Wales are in better mental health than Ireland post RWC.
In summary Wales will start favourites for our game and will fancy their chances, they always do.
The set piece contest will be interesting and the contest at the break down as many have mentioned already will be crucial.
The bookies opinion on this one post Ireland's selection, in particular, will be interesting.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Oldschool wrote: If you have ever played in a pack that has won ball, got it to the SH/OH and looked up to see the ball going in the wrong direction then you'll know what I'm getting at.
Scotland were given oxygen long before Cooney got on the pitch.
However to answer your question, Cooney didn't give away a stupid intercept or an even dummer penalty.
The type of things that just burn a teams momentum and confidence.
He handled the last few seconds of the game by reacting quickly, left to Murray and that time lag, it's likely we'd have been in trouble, conceded a peno and handed Scotland a last chance at getting a draw.
BTW Farrell is to be commended for subbing Murray off after that peno. That was a real positive IMHO.
And BTW you still haven't addressed Murray's impact on the performance of the national team.
In fact you just fudged it.
I haven't addressed it because I don't have to. There are a hundred other things I didn't address that will have an impact on the game and for you to say that myself and others were "afraid" to address it is nonsense. Plus it sounds like Murray is starting so I don't think it's interesting to talk about him, it's interesting to discuss how the rest of the team plays to make up for his poor form.

This may shock you but I think you'll find that I haven't defended Murray once. I would drop him and in fact I'd even drop him from the 23 and put Luke on the bench.

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MylesNaGapoleen
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

forecast (at the moment) is for a lot of rain on fri\sat. If it stays that way, I would be tempted to put Addison in ahead of larmour at FB despite how well jordan did with ball in hand on sat. muddy, wet, slugfest is on the cards me thinks.

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ribs
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Re: Ireland v Wales Sat 2.15

Post by ribs »

Muddy? I don’t think international pitches do that anymore. Any alternatives to the wingers? Stocktake is a juggler so a wet ball is asking for trouble, and we must have someone else to defend the other wing - every team is trying to go around us these days
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