Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

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TerenureJim
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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by TerenureJim »

Dave Cahill wrote:
November 29th, 2020, 8:22 pm
Every autumn the 'world rugby made us play them' game is the poorest of the series.
That's not fair Fiji 2009 was decent despite the weather

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by Blueberry »

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
November 29th, 2020, 10:47 pm
Andy Farrell's background is in Rugby League:
1: RL don't do scrums or lineouts - maybe this points to why our lineout sucks so bad and he picked a Tighthead to line out at Loosehead against Georgia who traditionally scrummage for fun?
2: RL do lots and lots of bish bash bosh before space opens up - maybe this is why he picked big lumps and planned for them to run headfirst into brick walls all afternoon. there is nothing easier for a trained rugby player than tackling somebody running straight at you?
C: RL don't really do tactical kicking - maybe this is why he is picking a good attacking winger who is positionally poor at fullback?
+1.....you might be onto something here.........

Look it is only one game and we can all be prone to over reacting but clear as day that we are brewing a problem here.

It is not just the one dimensional performance but honestly I can't reconcile or understand most of his selection decisions for this match. They make absolutely no sense to me across most of the pitch as I don't understand what he was trying to achieve or find out. That is more concerning.

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by Leinsterimp »

Truth is we’re way off England, France and Southern Hempisphere teams at the moment. Wouldn’t be surprised losing to Fiji if we played them.
Quite a few in that team aren’t really up to it. Thought Connors was pretty ineffective and got smashed every time he carried, I know he’s a good tackler but don’t think he’s quite ready for the highest level.

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Performance against Wales was reasonable and looked likee an amalgam of what Provinces (well Connacht & Leinster) are playing. Performance against England was brave but thoughtless without much tactical attempt to avoid head to head confrontations or get behind them. Performance against Georgia was horrible and looked like a Premiership game between two teams in the bottom six.

Seems like the longer players were away from their Provincial patterns, the less effective were our efforts and impact as a team. Loathe to compare it to MO'C style just yet but definitely concerned that that is the trend.

The only 'Catt inspired' aspect evident was attempted long passes to get to the 'outside'. With Farrell, as always, a non-passing centre this was not well executed.

On new caps since Farrell started. Keenan a success. Daly unproven but briefly impressed. Burns better than anticipated and may be worth more exposure. Kelleher a good prospect with a throwing flaw which can be improved. Connors excellent tackler but must improve lifting and carrying. JGP looked good against Wales but needs to play behind pack going forward. Lowe demonstrated his talents with physicality and involvement and will get better.

The display against Scotland must be improved with more emphasis on guile rather than brawn.

Farrell, Catt, Easterby & Fogarty have had their honeymoon.

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by munster#1 »

At the moment provincial and international moods are polar opposites.
With all 4 provinces playing entertaining rugby and 3 of the 4 teams are undefeated.

Ireland on the other hand, despite having one of the longest international camps ever, look completely lost.

Things are so bad at the moment, the list of players who are under performing is as long if not longer than the list of players who are playing at the required level.

Our scrum, lineout, maul and ruck work has been less than impressive, and our backs have no imagination.

At this stage you have to hope that the IRFU step in and give Farrell some assistance.
It would be far too expensive and probably a bit early to replace him, but getting experience in to advise and assist would be a big help.
Get POC in to look at the lineout, get Rowntree or McBride in to look at the scrum, have Lancaster look at the structures etc. we have enough talent on this island to try to put things right.

At the moment it is hard to identify what Farrell is trying to do, but whatever it is it is not working.

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by betty swallocks »

When does Pat Lam's contract with Bristol expire?

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by Blueberry »

munster#1 wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 9:26 am
At the moment provincial and international moods are polar opposites.
With all 4 provinces playing entertaining rugby and 3 of the 4 teams are undefeated.

Ireland on the other hand, despite having one of the longest international camps ever, look completely lost.

Things are so bad at the moment, the list of players who are under performing is as long if not longer than the list of players who are playing at the required level.

Our scrum, lineout, maul and ruck work has been less than impressive, and our backs have no imagination.

At this stage you have to hope that the IRFU step in and give Farrell some assistance.
It would be far too expensive and probably a bit early to replace him, but getting experience in to advise and assist would be a big help.
Get POC in to look at the lineout, get Rowntree or McBride in to look at the scrum, have Lancaster look at the structures etc. we have enough talent on this island to try to put things right.

At the moment it is hard to identify what Farrell is trying to do, but whatever it is it is not working.
+ 1 on the players under performing - it certainly does appear that players are playing better & more comfortably within their provincial systems than at Ireland. Now while you can argue that England is a step up and therefore you can't expect them to play as well, Wales are very poor at the moment and Georgia (at best low table TOP 14 team where many of their crew play) should be meat and drink for anyone on the Ireland wider squad.

Yes things are very weird atm with no crowds and it's having an impact and yes it would be very harsh to write Farrell off immediately but I think the alarm bells should be there right now - having sat through the MOC era in Leinster anyone who doubts the huge impact a poor coach can have almost immediately on a playing setup needs to think again.

I will happily say I have blue tinged glasses on but I think the coaching setup in Leinster right now is world class (I would argue the best in the world at the moment) and perhaps the issue is a step down from the very best can have a significant impact.

The next couple of years are important for Ireland in that there is a massive change of guard coming down the line with buckets of young talent coming through from Leinster and encouraging signs in Munster too that the corner is being turned and we are seeing youth coming through. In a year from now our test team with a couple of exceptions could be very young with a very high ceiling. If Farrell continues on the current path (and I don't see what that path is) we could end up in the doldrums for a while at the national level.

Upcoming six nations is important to get on steer on the Farrell project.

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by Blueberry »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 7:47 am
Performance against Wales was reasonable and looked likee an amalgam of what Provinces (well Connacht & Leinster) are playing. Performance against England was brave but thoughtless without much tactical attempt to avoid head to head confrontations or get behind them. Performance against Georgia was horrible and looked like a Premiership game between two teams in the bottom six.

Seems like the longer players were away from their Provincial patterns, the less effective were our efforts and impact as a team. Loathe to compare it to MO'C style just yet but definitely concerned that that is the trend.

The only 'Catt inspired' aspect evident was attempted long passes to get to the 'outside'. With Farrell, as always, a non-passing centre this was not well executed.

On new caps since Farrell started. Keenan a success. Daly unproven but briefly impressed. Burns better than anticipated and may be worth more exposure. Kelleher a good prospect with a throwing flaw which can be improved. Connors excellent tackler but must improve lifting and carrying. JGP looked good against Wales but needs to play behind pack going forward. Lowe demonstrated his talents with physicality and involvement and will get better.

The display against Scotland must be improved with more emphasis on guile rather than brawn.

Farrell, Catt, Easterby & Fogarty have had their honeymoon.
Agree on Keenan but WTF was he doing starting Stockdale at FB v Georgia - anyone with a modicum of rugby knowledge can see Keenan works at FB and has the skills and awareness and Stockdale is a very simple winger with a limited (but effective) attacking skillset.

Games like Georgia are ideal for Keenan to be getting international gametime at FB period, of all the odd selection decisions for Georgia the Stockdale to FB and Keenan to wing selection for me raises huge questions about Farrell.

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

agree with those who see Keenan at FB for Ireland over Stockdale.

can't help but wonder if the coaching team didn't give much emphasis to this game. they've been in camp for a few weeks and this is the best they can do?

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by Flash Gordon »

TerenureJim wrote:
November 29th, 2020, 11:19 pm
Remind me again what Mike Catt is there for?
Exactly my thoughts. Look at his track record and he has absolutely nothing in the bank - London Irish, England, Italy and now Ireland, all incredibly unimpressive. We just seemed to aimlessly shovel to the big lads in the center.

You've Also got to ask questions about the forwards, the breakdown has been a mess for a while.
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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by OTT »

I am a huge and biased Andy Farrell fan. I loved him from his earliest days in league where he won the man of steel at about 20. One of the hardest b$&%@#ds I’ve ever seen play the game. He came to union and was dogged by injury but despite never being at his best still acquitted himself well and you think of what might have been, I think if he came over a bit earlier and got lucky with injuries he would have been brilliant, I really do.

I thought he did a really good job at Saracens before he went and did a really good job with England. The World Cup in 2015 was an implosion and Farrell was credited (or discredited) with having to big an influence on the team selection, they threw the Burgess selection as having his fingerprints all over it. At the same time they (the media) were trying to portray Lancaster as being weak and unsure about what he was doing so the narrative about Farrell might have suited that agenda. What never suited the point is that England were beating Wales in the match that they eventually lost when Burgess was substituted off so we generally just try and ignore this point.

Farrell did really well with the Lions in 2013 and 2017 the defence was seen to be one of the strong points on both tours. Players who played for him love him. All the Irish lads talk him up. BOD, SOB, Heaslip all have waxed lyrical about him from those Lions tours. He is a players man.

So the coaches like Gatland and Lancaster love him (read someone say him and Lancaster fell out, I never read that, I read the media trying to create a split that never seemed there), the players who played under him love him and fans like me love him from his playing days.

The whole thing leaves me very unsure. Schmidt had us at a place we have never been at before in international team sport, we were favourites a lot of the time. We shouldn’t be favourites against some of the teams we played but we were. Our expectation levels went through the roof, we were the same at Leinster after Schmidt, MOC won a league and got to the semi in Europe where we lost to the eventual winners in his first season but we weren’t happy (and I remember I wasn’t happy with how we were playing and would have contributed to the negative posts about MOC).

Watching Ireland play at the minute leaves me feeling like we don’t know what we want to be doing. We are a bit rudderless. I heard Heaslip talking about Farrell before the English or Welsh game and he talked about how Farrell has empowered the players to play what they see, that was the same line Heaslip would spin out in interviews when he captained us (Leinster) under MOC that the players were empowered on the pitch to play heads up rugby. There was one great example of things not making any sense to me yesterday. We won a penalty in the first half 5 metres out from the Georgian line. I thought maybe we should kick to touch to try and get our lineout going since we have struggled so badly the last couple of games, if not this match when will it ever be a good time. Anyway we chose a scrum, the scrum was not great but we did win a penalty, on advantage Murray played it trucked it up...why? Lost it and it went back to the penalty and what did we do? We kicked to touch. WTF! What about our scrum that was optimum a few mins earlier. There were loads of inconsistencies in basic choices. I found the decisions to kick our 3 points throughout the game the same type of thing. It was muddled, nothing collective about our choices.

Anyway I’m still very much on team Farrell I just find some of the basic things we do on the pitch very confusing and there has to be more clarity to it. Let the players play and the coaches decide how we do it.
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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by brenno »

Flash Gordon wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 12:46 pm
TerenureJim wrote:
November 29th, 2020, 11:19 pm
Remind me again what Mike Catt is there for?
Exactly my thoughts. Look at his track record and he has absolutely nothing in the bank - London Irish, England, Italy and now Ireland, all incredibly unimpressive. We just seemed to aimlessly shovel to the big lads in the center.

You've Also got to ask questions about the forwards, the breakdown has been a mess for a while.
Whatever about Farrell, there has to be serious questions about the recruitment of Catt as backs coach. His track record is uninspiring to say the very least, and I'd take any of the provincial backs coaches - Larkham, Contepomi, Peel and Carolan - ahead of him. For a guy who was pretty nippy as a player, it's dispiriting to see us have no obvious strategy apart from bish-bash-bosh.

On general comparison, it's arguable that most if not all of the provinces have at least as much if not more quality in their coaching teams than Ireland. Says a lot about IRFU's recruitment policies

Leinster - Cullen, Lancaster, Contepomi, McBryde
Munster - Van Graan, Larkham, Ferreira, Roantree
Ulster - McFarland, Peel, Grant, Payne
Connacht - Friend, Carolan, Duffy, Wilkins

Ireland - Farrell, Catt, Easterby, Fogarty

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by sunshiner1 »

by OTT

I thought maybe we should kick to touch to try and get our lineout going since we have struggled so badly the last couple of games, if not this match when will it ever be a good time. Anyway we chose a scrum, the scrum was not great but we did win a penalty, on advantage Murray played it trucked it up...why? Lost it and it went back to the penalty and what did we do? We kicked to touch. WTF! What about our scrum that was optimum a few mins earlier. There were loads of inconsistencies in basic choices. I found the decisions to kick our 3 points throughout the game the same type of thing. It was muddled, nothing collective about our choices.
Isn't a lot of that the Captains choice rather than Farrell's? I am not disagreeing with you and I have serious issues about our selection right now but a lot of this seems to be us making dumb decisions on the pitch. Makes you question the leadership out there.

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Blueberry wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 11:46 am
Ruckedtobits wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 7:47 am
Performance against Wales was reasonable and looked likee an amalgam of what Provinces (well Connacht & Leinster) are playing. Performance against England was brave but thoughtless without much tactical attempt to avoid head to head confrontations or get behind them. Performance against Georgia was horrible and looked like a Premiership game between two teams in the bottom six.

Seems like the longer players were away from their Provincial patterns, the less effective were our efforts and impact as a team. Loathe to compare it to MO'C style just yet but definitely concerned that that is the trend.

The only 'Catt inspired' aspect evident was attempted long passes to get to the 'outside'. With Farrell, as always, a non-passing centre this was not well executed.

On new caps since Farrell started. Keenan a success. Daly unproven but briefly impressed. Burns better than anticipated and may be worth more exposure. Kelleher a good prospect with a throwing flaw which can be improved. Connors excellent tackler but must improve lifting and carrying. JGP looked good against Wales but needs to play behind pack going forward. Lowe demonstrated his talents with physicality and involvement and will get better.

The display against Scotland must be improved with more emphasis on guile rather than brawn.

Farrell, Catt, Easterby & Fogarty have had their honeymoon.
Agree on Keenan but WTF was he doing starting Stockdale at FB v Georgia - anyone with a modicum of rugby knowledge can see Keenan works at FB and has the skills and awareness and Stockdale is a very simple winger with a limited (but effective) attacking skillset.

Games like Georgia are ideal for Keenan to be getting international gametime at FB period, of all the odd selection decisions for Georgia the Stockdale to FB and Keenan to wing selection for me raises huge questions about Farrell.
With due respect this seems the easiest selection to explain. Farrell wanted to give Shane Daly a run at full-back, presumably for Stockdale at half-time, against a team over which we had achieved forward dominance. Assumption was Marmion, Daly in for Murray & Stockdale and bingo, a smallish but fast back three outside a high tempo service and two giant centres who had boshed a path up the middle during the first half.

That's the problem with a series of assumptions, sometimes referred to as an algorithm, if it contains one flawed equation, you've really got no idea of the ultimate outcome. and so it came to pass.

Keenan, Shane Daly, Jimmy O'Brien and Michael Lowry have all proven they can play full back at a high level. Neither Stockdale nor Larmour has ever given a flawless display in the position. Ensure that all four of the guys who can play at 15 get exposure in Euopean competition and then focus on the wing play, including defence, of Stockdale, Earls, Conway, Larmour, Lowe, Kearney, Kelleher, Nash, Woottam, and Baloucome. The skills for these positions are complementary, but not interchangable.

Stockdale cannot make tackles from full-back, period. He couldn't as an U.20 interpro and he still can't today. His playing contemporaries then, realised it and the back three defences he played in were adapted to always leave him with 'last man on the outside', never anything else.

The four current full-back contenders are very competent and maybe more than that. Three of them have demonstrated at Provincial level at least that they can also act as play makers, whilst Daly has shown at the Sevens game a propensity for line-breaks with finishing speed that are very rare in Irish rugby.

Let's not over complicate it. Just pick the best players and optimise what they are good at and improve their weaknesses. It's called coaching.

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by munster#1 »

brenno wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 1:56 pm
Flash Gordon wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 12:46 pm
TerenureJim wrote:
November 29th, 2020, 11:19 pm
Remind me again what Mike Catt is there for?
Exactly my thoughts. Look at his track record and he has absolutely nothing in the bank - London Irish, England, Italy and now Ireland, all incredibly unimpressive. We just seemed to aimlessly shovel to the big lads in the center.

You've Also got to ask questions about the forwards, the breakdown has been a mess for a while.
Whatever about Farrell, there has to be serious questions about the recruitment of Catt as backs coach. His track record is uninspiring to say the very least, and I'd take any of the provincial backs coaches - Larkham, Contepomi, Peel and Carolan - ahead of him. For a guy who was pretty nippy as a player, it's dispiriting to see us have no obvious strategy apart from bish-bash-bosh.

On general comparison, it's arguable that most if not all of the provinces have at least as much if not more quality in their coaching teams than Ireland. Says a lot about IRFU's recruitment policies

Leinster - Cullen, Lancaster, Contepomi, McBryde
Munster - Van Graan, Larkham, Ferreira, Roantree
Ulster - McFarland, Peel, Grant, Payne
Connacht - Friend, Carolan, Duffy, Wilkins

Ireland - Farrell, Catt, Easterby, Fogarty
I wonder if we might see one of the provincial coaching teams taking over from Farrell if he has another sub par performance in the upcoming 6 nations.

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by riocard911 »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 2:31 pm
Blueberry wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 11:46 am
Ruckedtobits wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 7:47 am
Performance against Wales was reasonable and looked likee an amalgam of what Provinces (well Connacht & Leinster) are playing. Performance against England was brave but thoughtless without much tactical attempt to avoid head to head confrontations or get behind them. Performance against Georgia was horrible and looked like a Premiership game between two teams in the bottom six.

Seems like the longer players were away from their Provincial patterns, the less effective were our efforts and impact as a team. Loathe to compare it to MO'C style just yet but definitely concerned that that is the trend.

The only 'Catt inspired' aspect evident was attempted long passes to get to the 'outside'. With Farrell, as always, a non-passing centre this was not well executed.

On new caps since Farrell started. Keenan a success. Daly unproven but briefly impressed. Burns better than anticipated and may be worth more exposure. Kelleher a good prospect with a throwing flaw which can be improved. Connors excellent tackler but must improve lifting and carrying. JGP looked good against Wales but needs to play behind pack going forward. Lowe demonstrated his talents with physicality and involvement and will get better.

The display against Scotland must be improved with more emphasis on guile rather than brawn.

Farrell, Catt, Easterby & Fogarty have had their honeymoon.
Agree on Keenan but WTF was he doing starting Stockdale at FB v Georgia - anyone with a modicum of rugby knowledge can see Keenan works at FB and has the skills and awareness and Stockdale is a very simple winger with a limited (but effective) attacking skillset.

Games like Georgia are ideal for Keenan to be getting international gametime at FB period, of all the odd selection decisions for Georgia the Stockdale to FB and Keenan to wing selection for me raises huge questions about Farrell.
With due respect this seems the easiest selection to explain. Farrell wanted to give Shane Daly a run at full-back, presumably for Stockdale at half-time, against a team over which we had achieved forward dominance. Assumption was Marmion, Daly in for Murray & Stockdale and bingo, a smallish but fast back three outside a high tempo service and two giant centres who had boshed a path up the middle during the first half.

That's the problem with a series of assumptions, sometimes referred to as an algorithm, if it contains one flawed equation, you've really got no idea of the ultimate outcome. and so it came to pass.

Keenan, Shane Daly, Jimmy O'Brien and Michael Lowry have all proven they can play full back at a high level. Neither Stockdale nor Larmour has ever given a flawless display in the position. Ensure that all four of the guys who can play at 15 get exposure in Euopean competition and then focus on the wing play, including defence, of Stockdale, Earls, Conway, Larmour, Lowe, Kearney, Kelleher, Nash, Woottam, and Baloucome. The skills for these positions are complementary, but not interchangable.

Stockdale cannot make tackles from full-back, period. He couldn't as an U.20 interpro and he still can't today. His playing contemporaries then, realised it and the back three defences he played in were adapted to always leave him with 'last man on the outside', never anything else.

The four current full-back contenders are very competent and maybe more than that. Three of them have demonstrated at Provincial level at least that they can also act as play makers, whilst Daly has shown at the Sevens game a propensity for line-breaks with finishing speed that are very rare in Irish rugby.

Let's not over complicate it. Just pick the best players and optimise what they are good at and improve their weaknesses. It's called coaching.
Top notch comment!!! :happy clapper: :happy clapper:

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by Flash Gordon »

munster#1 wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 2:31 pm
brenno wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 1:56 pm
Flash Gordon wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 12:46 pm


Exactly my thoughts. Look at his track record and he has absolutely nothing in the bank - London Irish, England, Italy and now Ireland, all incredibly unimpressive. We just seemed to aimlessly shovel to the big lads in the center.

You've Also got to ask questions about the forwards, the breakdown has been a mess for a while.
Whatever about Farrell, there has to be serious questions about the recruitment of Catt as backs coach. His track record is uninspiring to say the very least, and I'd take any of the provincial backs coaches - Larkham, Contepomi, Peel and Carolan - ahead of him. For a guy who was pretty nippy as a player, it's dispiriting to see us have no obvious strategy apart from bish-bash-bosh.

On general comparison, it's arguable that most if not all of the provinces have at least as much if not more quality in their coaching teams than Ireland. Says a lot about IRFU's recruitment policies

Leinster - Cullen, Lancaster, Contepomi, McBryde
Munster - Van Graan, Larkham, Ferreira, Roantree
Ulster - McFarland, Peel, Grant, Payne
Connacht - Friend, Carolan, Duffy, Wilkins

Ireland - Farrell, Catt, Easterby, Fogarty
I wonder if we might see one of the provincial coaching teams taking over from Farrell if he has another sub par performance in the upcoming 6 nations.
Very much doubt it. He deserves time to get things right and we're all hoping that happens sooner rather than later. Practically speaking, the Union is broke and can't afford to pay off a coach and appoint another.
Flash ahhhh ahhh, he'll save every one of us

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Being Head Coach at international level is very different from being Head Coach at Club level or even Assistant or Specialist Coach at National level. The biographies of Jake White, John Hart and Eddie Jones all devote a decent chunk to examining the role and each provides different descriptions of how they took on the task, but with a lot of similarities in some of the requirements.

Trying to summarise and combine the essential ingredients, ends up with something like this:
* the first requirement is selection and the necessity to pick players for the skills (and weaknesses) they already possess, not what you want them to have.
*The next requirement is to evaluate what tasks the various combinations in your team / squad can accomplish with the highest degree of perfection, and evaluating is that level good enough to win international Test Matches.
*The third element is visualising how to combine the different elements that your team are great at, into a sequence which can be executed repetitively, under severe pressure and quicker than they have normally performed them.
*The final aspect is figuring out what elements can be rehearsed and perfected under something like the conditions under which they will have to be executed, and then developing Plan B - "but what happens if"? Of all international sides, this is where the French & NZ excel at the highest level and where England and SA have most often failed.

An international training camp is not the place to enhance individual player skills, or eradicate weaknesses. It is exclusively about enhancing players' familiarity with the forthcoming Game Plan (and that of their Opposition) and with each others' skill sets', roles and temperament - hence the emphasis on 'homework' from JS. Unit skills such as scrummaging, line-outs & mauls require live competitive work and ruthless objectivity from the Coach in charge.

"Don't practice rubbish" or its Aussie or SA equivalent is a refrain that is regularly heard at sessions being run by Jones & White. Both of them firmly believe that if you can't produce perfection in training you have little chance of reproducing it under the pressure of test match rugby. Above all, Jones, Hart & White emphasise that 'being liked by the players' doesn't form any part of the job description of an international Head Coach.

Can Andy Farrell reach those levels? Having worked with Gatland and Schmidt he has seen and heard ruthlessness at first hand. He has experienced the impact of ruthless selection decisions. He has seen the workload and drive required for success. Can he display these attributes? Time will tell but the clock is now running and it will only accelerate if he does not get a win next weekend against Scotland. A Podium finish has always been important in the IRFU Committee room.

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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by Blueberry »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 2:31 pm
Blueberry wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 11:46 am
Ruckedtobits wrote:
November 30th, 2020, 7:47 am
Performance against Wales was reasonable and looked likee an amalgam of what Provinces (well Connacht & Leinster) are playing. Performance against England was brave but thoughtless without much tactical attempt to avoid head to head confrontations or get behind them. Performance against Georgia was horrible and looked like a Premiership game between two teams in the bottom six.

Seems like the longer players were away from their Provincial patterns, the less effective were our efforts and impact as a team. Loathe to compare it to MO'C style just yet but definitely concerned that that is the trend.

The only 'Catt inspired' aspect evident was attempted long passes to get to the 'outside'. With Farrell, as always, a non-passing centre this was not well executed.

On new caps since Farrell started. Keenan a success. Daly unproven but briefly impressed. Burns better than anticipated and may be worth more exposure. Kelleher a good prospect with a throwing flaw which can be improved. Connors excellent tackler but must improve lifting and carrying. JGP looked good against Wales but needs to play behind pack going forward. Lowe demonstrated his talents with physicality and involvement and will get better.

The display against Scotland must be improved with more emphasis on guile rather than brawn.

Farrell, Catt, Easterby & Fogarty have had their honeymoon.
Agree on Keenan but WTF was he doing starting Stockdale at FB v Georgia - anyone with a modicum of rugby knowledge can see Keenan works at FB and has the skills and awareness and Stockdale is a very simple winger with a limited (but effective) attacking skillset.

Games like Georgia are ideal for Keenan to be getting international gametime at FB period, of all the odd selection decisions for Georgia the Stockdale to FB and Keenan to wing selection for me raises huge questions about Farrell.
With due respect this seems the easiest selection to explain. Farrell wanted to give Shane Daly a run at full-back, presumably for Stockdale at half-time, against a team over which we had achieved forward dominance. Assumption was Marmion, Daly in for Murray & Stockdale and bingo, a smallish but fast back three outside a high tempo service and two giant centres who had boshed a path up the middle during the first half.

That's the problem with a series of assumptions, sometimes referred to as an algorithm, if it contains one flawed equation, you've really got no idea of the ultimate outcome. and so it came to pass.

Keenan, Shane Daly, Jimmy O'Brien and Michael Lowry have all proven they can play full back at a high level. Neither Stockdale nor Larmour has ever given a flawless display in the position. Ensure that all four of the guys who can play at 15 get exposure in Euopean competition and then focus on the wing play, including defence, of Stockdale, Earls, Conway, Larmour, Lowe, Kearney, Kelleher, Nash, Woottam, and Baloucome. The skills for these positions are complementary, but not interchangable.

Stockdale cannot make tackles from full-back, period. He couldn't as an U.20 interpro and he still can't today. His playing contemporaries then, realised it and the back three defences he played in were adapted to always leave him with 'last man on the outside', never anything else.

The four current full-back contenders are very competent and maybe more than that. Three of them have demonstrated at Provincial level at least that they can also act as play makers, whilst Daly has shown at the Sevens game a propensity for line-breaks with finishing speed that are very rare in Irish rugby.

Let's not over complicate it. Just pick the best players and optimise what they are good at and improve their weaknesses. It's called coaching.
Totally agree - pick the best players in their best position and get on with it !! While I understand what you saying about the fullback selection on the weekend being easy to explain, the simple fact he picked Stockdale to play in a position he clearly can't play in to me is baffling. Either start Keenan and give him more game time or start Daly to get a look at him too or give them a half each. To further confuse matters by giving Keenan time on the wing when he is clearly a very possible Rob Kearney replacement is bizarre. You absolutely nail Stockdale's flaws as a fullback - yes he can shove a guy into touch but that's about it defensively. He is a winger end of story.

If Farrell can't see that (and to me this is probably the most simple selection decision to make) it does make me question what an earth he is doing especially looking at some of the other selections on the weekend.

Anyway hope I am wrong but I think we have a pig in a poke here.

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olaf the fat
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Re: Andy Farell's Reign of Terror

Post by olaf the fat »

If you are going to have a stinker against Georgia - 2020 AIs is the perfect time.

Remember when we decided to have it in a RWC?
As they say in Russia, Goodbye in Russian

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