RWC 2019 Warmup Games

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OTT
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by OTT »

backrower8 wrote:No. Can’t see why AKI is the only player to start all 4 games

hmmm...because he didn't?
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by jimbobjoe »

wixfjord wrote:Kilcoyne more than deserves to be in there.
He has had a great season, Munster scrum is solid and he adds a carrying dimension off the bench that not many others do.

He gets a weird amount of flack on here, and isn't the player Jack McGrath was 2-3 years ago. But neither is Jack McGrath.
Agreed - If we want form players to be picked then Kilcoyne is the only option to back up Healy.
I'll die before I surrender, Tim.

wixfjord
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by wixfjord »

jimbobjoe wrote:
wixfjord wrote:Kilcoyne more than deserves to be in there.
He has had a great season, Munster scrum is solid and he adds a carrying dimension off the bench that not many others do.

He gets a weird amount of flack on here, and isn't the player Jack McGrath was 2-3 years ago. But neither is Jack McGrath.
Agreed - If we want form players to be picked then Kilcoyne is the only option to back up Healy.

Yup and the same poster above complaining about Kilcoyne has also been complaining about a lack of change in the pecking order and needing to invigorate the team by picking different players, which is ironic.

Given the way we're playing, we need guys who can bring a bit of game breaking ability more than ever, which is why having Cronin, Kilcoyne, Beirne, Carbery etc to come in could be very useful.

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by backrower8 »

This poster didn't advocate for picking people who can't deliver on their primary duties just to freshen up the squad. I acknowledge and enjoy Killer's fine loose play, but it will count for zip in a tier 1 RWC match. Killer will never be a tier 1 test standard scrummager, and that matters.

Jack Mc has lost an edge but he delivered at scrum time in the half he was given against Italy (a tier 2 team) and England (where he didn't guard a ruck) and, for me anyway, would have given greater assurance at scrum time in RWC QF/SF situation. Demented Mole podcast also predicted Jack to tour despite Killer's flash moves.

This poster called for no sacred cows and a meritocracy to be re-established especially at 2, 6, 8 & 15 and expressed concern about lack of minutes for others when our 9 was clearly unable to play 80 & the fact that we play too much through our 10 having avoided developing new blood and approaches at 15 (or simply freezing out a very good alternative). These views were and are also expressed by many in the rugby media - but sure what do they know compared to the luminaries that dwell here?

I also called for a change of Captain after the GS in 20018 and continue to see Joe's inertia in this regard and the fact that we have a 37 year old Captain as the ultimate sign of how Joe has himself stagnated and allowed the squad to do likewise.

I remain concerned that Joe (our greatest ever coach, but not infallible) has not been meritocratic enough and believe that this has led to their being a funk in the squad because he didn't challenge the leaders in the team with their replacements - some of whom are intimidated (Cronin and Conan) or frozen out (Zebo) by him .

These views are far from unique to me, but views are secondary to the group dynamic that operates here.

I like the way the bench is developing with a lot of strong 'finishers', but the starters have to be able to provide the platform.

I reckon we will have 6 starters aged 30+, 4 of them in the backs and 2 in the back 3. The XV will include 37, 34 & 33 year olds. That feels too old to me. Only one of them should have made it this far.

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Twist
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Twist »

The average age of this squad is actually two years younger than the 2015 squad

OTT
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by OTT »

I love meritocracy except when it goes against one of my favourites.
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

~The Late Great Mick English

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by backrower8 »

2015 went well eh?

Do you think we have the age profile of our starters right?

England might have 1 or 2 starters aged 30+

Wales 5, just 2 in the backs and they are 31

New Zealand also with 9 OAPs might have 8 starters over 30 and match us for having a 33 and 34 year olds in the backs

South Africa have 7 oldies in their squad but only 2 likely starters

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by backrower8 »

OTT wrote:I love meritocracy except when it goes against one of my favourites.
Ah! My very own troll. That would be incorrect.

I don’t like but accept Kleyn over Dev, Carty over Byrne and Larmour over Addison. #TAGT

OTT
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by OTT »

backrower8 wrote:
OTT wrote:I love meritocracy except when it goes against one of my favourites.
Ah! My very own troll. That would be incorrect.

I don’t like but accept Kleyn over Dev, Carty over Byrne and Larmour over Addison. #TAGT
I would not say I am your very own troll.

But you are a very generous guy who keeps on giving.

Have you realised yet that Aki has only played two games so far?

Centre minutes so far;

Ringrose 169: 2 starts 1 sub (9 minutes on wing)
Farrell 160: 2 starts
Aki 160: 2 starts.


Blah blah blah
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

~The Late Great Mick English

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bonzo
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by bonzo »

backrower8 wrote:No. Can’t see why AKI is the only player to start all 4 games when Ringrose and Farrell have been for throughout the period. A poor decision maker, particularly in defence.

Ringer and Henshaw don’t play together nearly enough due to injuries, yet have the potential to be a world class combination.

As for Killer. He is only ok scrummaging against B-teams or tier 2 nations other than Georgia. He will hemorrhage penalties against any tier 1 country. Frightening thought. #Pray4Church
To be fair, it was Farrell and Ringrose v Italy, with Haley on the bench....

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2019/08/09/he ... -italy-16/

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

To be fair I'd say that Henshaw's only appearance being at 13 points to Aki starting in two weeks time.

This selection makes me wonder again about why Farrell is going to Japan. If Henshaw is still an option at 13 then what's the point?

wixfjord
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by wixfjord »

Jack McGrath certainly hasn't shown he's a 'tier 1 scrummager' this year. As has been said above, you can't just pick and choose when you want people to be picked on merit. Kilcoyne has been outperformng him for at least 18 months and fully deserves his place.


I do find it funny too that you keep banging on about this 'forum group think' thing as if you're some mad fresh thinker from outside the LF bubble...and then in every other post talking relentlessly about the private south Dublin school you attended decades ago and praising its players! :lol:
Last edited by wixfjord on September 6th, 2019, 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Fan with smartphone »

Interesting tweet from Murray Kinsella that Ireland has the third most caps going to the World Cup. That’s behind Australia and New Zealand. Surprises me that Cheika has the most capped squad. The best analysis piece that demented mole ever did (in my opinion) was the age of Aquarius piece and in that Cheika was seen as a (let’s say) jumpy selector. He hasn’t done that here though. I’m happy with where it’s at though for us. Joe is a builder and a planner. This is very close to the squad he’s been planning for some time.

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by backrower8 »

The only place Killer has been better than Jack in the last 18 months is in the loose. My only point about him is that he doesn’t deserve to prop the Irish scrum on merit. That’s my view based on his scrummaging career to date. He is 30. The evidence is clear. Ignore it all you want and celebrate his moves against Russia and Samoa and pray when he replaces Church with 15 to go against the Boks. They’ll snap him in two.

I certainly do love the fact that Michael’s is now the single greatest production line ever in Leinster in the pro era BECAUSE we were so cr@p when I was there! But, for the record, my main point about them, which I mainly post about, is that the extent of their success and Leinster’s reliance on them (and Rock to a lesser extent) is a major risk to Leinster’s future. Try and remember that now.

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by CiaranIrl »

wixfjord wrote: I do find it funny too that you keep banging on about this 'forum group think' thing as if you're some mad fresh thinker from outside the LF bubble...and then in every other post talking relentlessly about the private south Dublin school you attended decades ago and praising its players! :lol:
You just had to go and set him off on that again, didn't you?
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ronk
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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by ronk »

Fan with smartphone wrote:Interesting tweet from Murray Kinsella that Ireland has the third most caps going to the World Cup. That’s behind Australia and New Zealand. Surprises me that Cheika has the most capped squad. The best analysis piece that demented mole ever did (in my opinion) was the age of Aquarius piece and in that Cheika was seen as a (let’s say) jumpy selector. He hasn’t done that here though. I’m happy with where it’s at though for us. Joe is a builder and a planner. This is very close to the squad he’s been planning for some time.
Would Toner and McGrath have moved the dial?

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Fan with smartphone »

ronk wrote:
Fan with smartphone wrote:Interesting tweet from Murray Kinsella that Ireland has the third most caps going to the World Cup. That’s behind Australia and New Zealand. Surprises me that Cheika has the most capped squad. The best analysis piece that demented mole ever did (in my opinion) was the age of Aquarius piece and in that Cheika was seen as a (let’s say) jumpy selector. He hasn’t done that here though. I’m happy with where it’s at though for us. Joe is a builder and a planner. This is very close to the squad he’s been planning for some time.
Would Toner and McGrath have moved the dial?
Using Murray’s figures that would have bumped it up to 2nd - I reckon 2 caps more than New Zealand, but still more than 200 behind Cheika’s Australian squad. Like I say - Joe is a planner/strategist. The best there is. He was never going to throw the chips up in the air like a Gatland would, unless he was in trouble. It’s worked for Gatland, before, but I personally would be happier with Joe’s way. Kleyn-Toner is a departure from that, but letting a big hitter go in that way, if they perhaps feel he’s not 100% from injury last year and not quite performing like he can, it maybe guards against the untouchable 2007 syndrome. It will have sent out a warning that lads aren’t going to be played into form, but against a backdrop of a squad that’s a long time in the making.

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by wixfjord »

Much better performance and great send off for Joe and Rory.

RK was very good, particularly in first half.
Larmour put his hand up for starting jersey if Earls isn't ready for Scotland.

Henshaw and Aki is our 12/13 imo. Robbie looked back to his best.

Stander was much better at 6. VDF had his best game in a while.

Conan a bit quiet albeit and don't think he has done enough.

Sexton very mixed, albeit first game back.

Kilcoyne was again really good when he came on.
Carried well, made a few massive hits and won a big scrum pen along with being part of a very dominant scrum overall (can't scrummage through right? :wink: ).
Looking like a great option off the bench.

Porter good also when he came in. That scrum pen against him was nonsense and won one himself.

Rhys had a nice cameo. Feels like he could have a big impact on this tournament. I wonder might we see him at 8?

Lineout was poor but I think that's partly because we had only one jumper really.

And so to Kleyn.
I feel for the dude tbh. Really out of his depth and tried too hard to make an impact. A poor 50 mins and I'd worry if we had to start him against SA or NZ. He's a bit of a passenger. You also need to play Beirne/POM at 6 if he's starting because he offer nothing in the lineout.

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Fan with smartphone »

World number 1 is a wholly appropriate send off. We are formidable.

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Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by wixfjord »

Aye whatever happens at the RWC, it's some send off for Schmidt. Legend.

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