RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Forum for the discussion of all International Rugby

Moderator: moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
neiliog93
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4070
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:42 am

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by neiliog93 »

blockhead wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:If do end up playing South Africa in a 1/4 final (and have a clean bill of health), I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this:

4.Kleyn 5.Ja.Ryan

6.Ruddock 8.Stander 7.POM

19.Henderson 20.VDF/Beirne/Conan
WTF! Are you on glue?
No way Kleyn gets beyond Hendo. And JVDF is the only real 7 we have.
It'll be POM, CJ ,JVDF for the backrow.
As much as I love Ruddock and Conan, they simply haven't done enough to unseat POM and CJ.
Nothing to do with my preferences, just what I think Schmidt might do..
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

User avatar
hugonaut
Shane Jennings
Posts: 5600
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 7:44 pm

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by hugonaut »

neiliog93 wrote:If do end up playing South Africa in a 1/4 final (and have a clean bill of health), I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this:

4.Kleyn 5.Ja.Ryan

6.Ruddock 8.Stander 7.POM

19.Henderson 20.VDF/Beirne/Conan
Would not be surprised to see something like that at all.

I think our backrow has to be tailored to each opponent – I think we've got good strength in depth without having any world class players [on current form].

This time out, we don't have players of the same standard as JH [5 Lion test starts, 2-time IPOTY nominee], SOB [4 Lions test starts], Wallace [2 Lions test starts] or Ferris* [the best Irish blindside I've seen, by a clear margin]. I don't think we can dictate the terms of engagement with our backrow, in the way that we were able to in the last couple of World Cups.

*It's pretty shocking to think that Ferris only turned 34 last month. He's the same age as Kieran Read and less than a year older than Duane Vermeulen.
Last edited by hugonaut on September 9th, 2019, 8:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
neiliog93
Shane Horgan
Posts: 4070
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:42 am

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by neiliog93 »

Yeah, a better injury record permitting, this RWC could well have been Ferris' swan-song before retirement/a lucrative move to France for a year or two. Most freakish athlete we've ever had.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 11063
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by ronk »

hugonaut wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:If do end up playing South Africa in a 1/4 final (and have a clean bill of health), I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this:

4.Kleyn 5.Ja.Ryan

6.Ruddock 8.Stander 7.POM

19.Henderson 20.VDF/Beirne/Conan
Would not be surprised to see something like that at all.

I think our backrow has to be tailored to each opponent – I think we've got good strength in depth without having any world class players [on current form].

This time out, we don't have players of the same standard as JH [5 Lion test starts, 2-time IPOTY nominee], SOB [4 Lions test starts], Wallace [2 Lions test starts] or Ferris* [the best Irish blindside I've seen, by a clear margin]. I don't think we can dictate the terms of engagement with our backrow, in the way that we were able to in the last couple of World Cups.

*It's pretty shocking to think that Ferris only turned 34 last month. He's the same age as Kieran Read and less than a year older than Duane Vermeulen.
I would. Something needs to go wrong for Schmidt to pivot so hard so fast for a game he's been prepping for for 4 years.

Picking Kleyn ahead of a part-fit Toner was a surprise. Henderson is at the top of his game.

POM can cover 7 but realistically it's far from ideal. Even this year Stander moved to 7 instead of him more than once.

joooooe
Graduate
Posts: 560
Joined: April 7th, 2009, 12:04 pm

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by joooooe »

I can't find highlights for this match anywhere. I was at the game so would like to see it back. Anyone have a link? Thanks.

OTT
Mullet
Posts: 1640
Joined: February 2nd, 2012, 4:19 pm
Location: Blackrock

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by OTT »

joooooe wrote:I can't find highlights for this match anywhere. I was at the game so would like to see it back. Anyone have a link? Thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkX4TgDMyZc

The whole game is there.
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

~The Late Great Mick English

Fan with smartphone
Graduate
Posts: 655
Joined: May 18th, 2016, 7:54 pm

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Fan with smartphone »

neiliog93 wrote:We don't have a really tricky pool, it is by a distance the easiest pool in the RWC. If we'd gotten France, Argentina, USA and Tonga as first seeds, we'd feel much harder done by.

Ditto South Africa, Italy, Namibia and Canada; or Wales, Georgia, Fiji, and Uruguay.
I called the draw tricky rather than the pool. The Japan and Scotland games I think are ‘tricky’ in that they are more banana skins than the quarter final which will be just plain daunting. Semantics of all that aside, i personally don’t like the draw because you have no reward at the end of your group. No matter how well you play you get New Zealand or South Africa in a quarter final. Like if you were picking the most difficult pair of potential fixtures to break that glass ceiling...it’d be that surely?

User avatar
Oldschool
Cian Healy
Posts: 13144
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 1:10 pm

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Oldschool »

Fan with smartphone wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:We don't have a really tricky pool, it is by a distance the easiest pool in the RWC. If we'd gotten France, Argentina, USA and Tonga as first seeds, we'd feel much harder done by.

Ditto South Africa, Italy, Namibia and Canada; or Wales, Georgia, Fiji, and Uruguay.
I called the draw tricky rather than the pool. The Japan and Scotland games I think are ‘tricky’ in that they are more banana skins than the quarter final which will be just plain daunting. Semantics of all that aside, i personally don’t like the draw because you have no reward at the end of your group. No matter how well you play you get New Zealand or South Africa in a quarter final. Like if you were picking the most difficult pair of potential fixtures to break that glass ceiling...it’d be that surely?
People are building SA up, I'll buy it when I see it.
And it's an opportunity to put them out of the competition before the injuries build up.
NZ TBF to them are NZ but not the NZ of old.
The gap has closed and the gap between the SH and the NH is closer now than it has been.
Recent series results between them have been very tight.
Gone are the days of bringing development squads up north and expecting wins has gone.
My money is on a NH team to win the RWC this time.
There are four teams from the NH who are going to be very difficult to beat on any given day.
They've good squads and good coaches too.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

User avatar
Twist
Mullet
Posts: 1563
Joined: September 14th, 2011, 2:33 am

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Twist »

blockhead wrote:
neiliog93 wrote:If do end up playing South Africa in a 1/4 final (and have a clean bill of health), I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this:

4.Kleyn 5.Ja.Ryan

6.Ruddock 8.Stander 7.POM

19.Henderson 20.VDF/Beirne/Conan
WTF! Are you on glue?
No way Kleyn gets beyond Hendo. And JVDF is the only real 7 we have.
It'll be POM, CJ ,JVDF for the backrow.
As much as I love Ruddock and Conan, they simply haven't done enough to unseat POM and CJ.
Hendo started at 6 on the 2016 tour. I can see an argument for getting all three of him, Ryan and Kleyn on the pitch against them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
dropkick
Mullet
Posts: 1763
Joined: January 2nd, 2007, 12:27 am
Location: Cork

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by dropkick »

neiliog93 wrote:We don't have a really tricky pool, it is by a distance the easiest pool in the RWC. If we'd gotten France, Argentina, USA and Tonga as first seeds, we'd feel much harder done by.

Ditto South Africa, Italy, Namibia and Canada; or Wales, Georgia, Fiji, and Uruguay.

Tbh I'd prefer to swap SA and Scotland. That might sound mad but I think SA and NZ have a better draw that us. Realistically it's between Ireland, NZ and SA for 2 semi final places. If all goes to plan, Ireland will have one big match they must win while SA and NZ will have to win 1 out of 2. Win the group and they play Scotland or Japan, lose and they've another chance against Ireland.

User avatar
LeRouxIsPHat
Cian Healy
Posts: 13563
Joined: January 22nd, 2009, 7:49 pm

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

It's quite a boring draw really. Given the nature of the game I think they should really spread the Rugby Championship teams across the four groups and then match them up with the top four of the 6N two or three years out from the World Cup. After the first two weeks it's really just the England games against France and Argentina that have two top tier teams against each other.

backrower8
Mullet
Posts: 1069
Joined: December 4th, 2006, 6:13 pm
Location: Blackrock

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by backrower8 »

OTT wrote:
backrower8 wrote:Mad fixture to take given their lead in and ours.

Poor individual performances and even worse system errors - defence (Farrell’s role) & lineout.

Based on all the performances across 2019, Joe has lost the dressing room. It’s going from bad to worse.

He has not innovated in terms of our playing style and has hung on to and/or favorited players for too long at 2 (37 yrs old for Christ’s sake), 6, 8, 9 (he is too slow in his decision making), 10 (34 yrs old & physically brittle) & 15.

Stander a shadow of his former self for a long time now.

Kleyn, Aki & Larmour are not international standard. Larmour will get there in time.

Far, far too much of our play goes through Johnny.

Leavy’s injury was a disaster given Seanie’s demise and POM & Stander’s form. Jackson’s was even worse but Noe should have got more pitch time for Scannell/ Beirne/R Byrne or Carty/Conway.

Drop Best, Stander & Aki. Leave Killer (not international standard scrummager), Kleyn and Jordi at home for Jack, Beirne & Ruddock.

What is Stockdale doing wearing a rocker’s hair length in the summer and possibly before going to hot and muggy Japan? He obviously couldn’t see out of his mullet yesterday. He dropped a ball under no pressure and defended the way he has defended for two seasons. Either he is not putting the work on or is incapable of making reads.

A 15 point loss would have been acceptable. 52-15 was not acceptable for any reason.

This squad needs an enema. Joe needs to demote big players in favour of form players and that includes the Captain.
:lol:
So, after the sneering, now it’s official. Captain Rory Best has spilled the beans. There was trouble in paradise after that warm-up slaughter against England. What he doesn’t say, but Fanning does in the S.Indo, is that the senior players (Best, POM & Jonny) should have been more forceful with Joe. They should have, but I bet that POM & Best weren’t counting their chickens and weren’t prepared to rock the mighty Joe’s (WCOTY2018) boat too much.

But there is no such excuse for either Nucifora (50 learnings me arse) or Andy Farrell. They should have challenged Joe properly - and didn’t - but they live to fight on with healthy salaries. They had Stockholm syndrome.

That for me has to be the big learning here - even brilliant coaches need to be challenged properly. There has to be a creative tension in the leadership team and very few players will ever be so sure of their places as to be able to exert the pressure needed. That is up to the other coaches AND Nucifora - who should still be reviewed about how he is doing his job and did it in relation to RWC2019.

I was wrong about Killer, who has brought his game to another level, although I still wouldn’t like to have to rely on him as a starter against hard-scrummaging packs.

Stander was one of our better performers in the end but he is synonymous with the failed playing style. Maybe he can adapt his game.

Aki would be my #4 centre.

Dev wasn’t firing on all cylinders at time of squad selection but he still would have brought more to bear than Patsy.

For me Andy Farrell starts 2020 with his account in deficit for how he was to my eye so complicit in Joe running us onto the rocks. He starts his first ever role as #1 now. He has it all to prove.

OTT
Mullet
Posts: 1640
Joined: February 2nd, 2012, 4:19 pm
Location: Blackrock

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by OTT »

Joe lost the dressing room in 2019 but everyone followed him to a tee and refused to question him right till the end.

That is some f%~king magician we had as coach.

Of course you are right, you always are.

Worth sitting on this scoop for the last two months.
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

~The Late Great Mick English

User avatar
Oldschool
Cian Healy
Posts: 13144
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 1:10 pm

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Oldschool »

Sexton, POM and Murray are still being selected for their provinces so Joe isn't the only one guilty of denial.
Joe's mom died just before the RWC, she had been ill for quite a while, that had to have a huge impact on Joe. That would have been an extremely difficult situation for Farrell, Nucifora et el to deal with.
Joe's obvious and immediate reaction at the end of the NZ game was one of relief, not disappointment.
Joe couldn't even mourn his mom until after the RWC was over.
Joe is the best thing that ever happened to Irish rugby.
Daggers already being drawn for Farrell is downright unfair to the man.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

User avatar
fourthirtythree
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9676
Joined: April 12th, 2008, 11:33 pm
Location: Eight miles high

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by fourthirtythree »

Sexton more than worth his spot, what he lacks and the only thing he lacks is resistance to injury. One day he will decline as a player. But not yet. POM was well woth his jersey on saturday. Its munsters front five that are killing them. Murray is still better than what Munster have behind him. If Matthewson was still there maybe not. Or if they hadnt held on to Mathewson ao long and given so little game time to their backups they mightn't be in that pickle.
Datta: what have we given?
My friend, blood shaking my heart
The awful daring of a moment's surrender
Which an age of prudence can never retract
What the thunder said to Brian Lenihan

User avatar
Oldschool
Cian Healy
Posts: 13144
Joined: March 27th, 2008, 1:10 pm

Re: RWC 2019 Warmup Games

Post by Oldschool »

fourthirtythree wrote:Sexton more than worth his spot, what he lacks and the only thing he lacks is resistance to injury. One day he will decline as a player. But not yet. POM was well woth his jersey on saturday. Its munsters front five that are killing them. Murray is still better than what Munster have behind him. If Matthewson was still there maybe not. Or if they hadnt held on to Mathewson ao long and given so little game time to their backups they mightn't be in that pickle.
You think I didn't factor injury proneness into my calculations particularly so near the end of a player's career. Maybe that's the problem, nobody else does but they should.
I can just imagine the hyperbole if Sexton had scored Byrne's try.
The Sarries game suited POM.
Weak pack, slow, stop start game.
It's denial that has Murray still first choice, his problem has been evident since our OZ tour injury.
Is he really better than any other SH in Munster?
Who have they given a decent chance to?
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

Post Reply