RWC 2019 Warmup Games

[backrower8]

Mad fixture to take given their lead in and ours.

Poor individual performances and even worse system errors - defence (Farrell’s role) & lineout.

Based on all the performances across 2019, Joe has lost the dressing room. It’s going from bad to worse.

He has not innovated in terms of our playing style and has hung on to and/or favorited players for too long at 2 (37 yrs old for Christ’s sake), 6, 8, 9 (he is too slow in his decision making), 10 (34 yrs old & physically brittle) & 15.

Stander a shadow of his former self for a long time now.

Kleyn, Aki & Larmour are not international standard. Larmour will get there in time.

Far, far too much of our play goes through Johnny.

Leavy’s injury was a disaster given Seanie’s demise and POM & Stander’s form. Jackson’s was even worse but Noe should have got more pitch time for Scannell/ Beirne/R Byrne or Carty/Conway.

Drop Best, Stander & Aki. Leave Killer (not international standard scrummager), Kleyn and Jordi at home for Jack, Beirne & Ruddock.

What is Stockdale doing wearing a rocker’s hair length in the summer and possibly before going to hot and muggy Japan? He obviously couldn’t see out of his mullet yesterday. He dropped a ball under no pressure and defended the way he has defended for two seasons. Either he is not putting the work on or is incapable of making reads.

A 15 point loss would have been acceptable. 52-15 was not acceptable for any reason.

This squad needs an enema. Joe needs to demote big players in favour of form players and that includes the Captain.

[leinsterforever]

The most worrying thing is there seems to be an assumption that this is 'fixable'. Obviously, the most egregious aspects of yesterday's performance probably are fixable (e.g. misfiring set-pieces, the worst missed tackles, handling errors, poor defensive reads, etc.).

But what isn't fixable is the fact that England have bigger, faster, more explosive athletes all over the park. They are guided by good coaching, the most resources of any national union on the planet, and the on-field finesse and decision-making of Ford and Farrell. Cokanasiga, Tuilagi, the Vunipolas, Itoje, Sinckler and May are vastly superior in terms of speed, power and athleticism to anyone we can offer, with the possible exception of Cian Healy. Such a gap in innate physical qualities simply cannot be overcome, especially in good weather.

Really? Are Healy and Furlong vastly inferior in terms of speed, power and athleticism to Mako Vunipola and Sinckler respectively? Come on, like. What about Furlong getting rid of those three All Blacks?

Could pick Chris Farrell at 12 to give you some of that in the backs as well.

[suisse]

Japan is not going to be as hot and humid as we're constantly told in the Irish media. Certainly, by the time we face Russia in our third game, at 7.15PM local time in Kobe, the humidity will be almost completely gone. The temperature in Yokohama around the opening weekend is showing highs of 26 and lows of 16. Sure, it'll be warmer than Ireland, but not like it is at the beginning of August. It's 30 where I am in Japan now. Its hot but its dry heat. The humility just disappeared one morning like it normally does in late August. Our QF in last October (Tokyo) will be played in temps no higher than 22

[dropkick]

The scoreline is horrendous but I don't think Ireland are anywhere near that bad. A team with a lineout that bad are likely to take a hiding. It not only helped England on a technical level but also gave them a great psychological boost.


The defence was also all over the place, probably because of match sharpness. England didn't have to do much to score. Stuart Barnes was talking about physicality but it was Farrell and wee George Ford who were pulling the strings.


Lineout and defence are very fixable.


I wouldn't get too carried away about dropping players either. Sure, some will play their way in and out of the team. One player who should be under pressure is Best. Looks like age has caught up with him. Cronin came on and looked panicked when a cool head was needed. The hooking stocks are not great. Scannell could be first choice next year and while he's good, he might not make many top teams' squads.


Quinlan came out with a classic in commentary. "There's a lot of stuff that can be fixed but the worry is can it be fixed".

[OTT]

Mad fixture to take given their lead in and ours.

Poor individual performances and even worse system errors - defence (Farrell’s role) & lineout.

Based on all the performances across 2019, Joe has lost the dressing room. It’s going from bad to worse.

He has not innovated in terms of our playing style and has hung on to and/or favorited players for too long at 2 (37 yrs old for Christ’s sake), 6, 8, 9 (he is too slow in his decision making), 10 (34 yrs old & physically brittle) & 15.

Stander a shadow of his former self for a long time now.

Kleyn, Aki & Larmour are not international standard. Larmour will get there in time.

Far, far too much of our play goes through Johnny.

Leavy’s injury was a disaster given Seanie’s demise and POM & Stander’s form. Jackson’s was even worse but Noe should have got more pitch time for Scannell/ Beirne/R Byrne or Carty/Conway.

Drop Best, Stander & Aki. Leave Killer (not international standard scrummager), Kleyn and Jordi at home for Jack, Beirne & Ruddock.

What is Stockdale doing wearing a rocker’s hair length in the summer and possibly before going to hot and muggy Japan? He obviously couldn’t see out of his mullet yesterday. He dropped a ball under no pressure and defended the way he has defended for two seasons. Either he is not putting the work on or is incapable of making reads.

A 15 point loss would have been acceptable. 52-15 was not acceptable for any reason.

This squad needs an enema. Joe needs to demote big players in favour of form players and that includes the Captain.

[OTT]

I think our lineout is a worry and has been for years. Even when we are hitting 80-90% we usually f%~k up on an important one in defence or attacking the opposition line. We can put any of our hookers in and it is the same result. Huge momentum shifting moments in matches. I think we can sort out the general lineout malaise from Saturday but still I would not have confidence in these key moments.

Everything else from Saturday has to be a million times better and it will. We have a couple more big hit outs to get the match fitness going and we should be peaking when we need to peak which is not the end of August. Huge kick up the arse and expectations muted.

[Leinsterimp]

There seems to have been a real lack of creativity in the back line this year. Very one dimensional and easy to read.

It’s not going to happen at this stage but I’d have definitely brought in Zebo after the year he had in France. As reliable as he’s been over the years I don’t see Rob putting fear into any half decent opposition and his ability in the air has also diminished. Unfortunately I don’t think Larmour is international quality yet either but hoping to be proved wrong

[Oldschool]

Just a heads-up.
Brian O'Driscoll and Jamie Heaslip will be on Virgin 1's Ireland AM tomorrow morning.

[Twist]

I haven’t heard much about Cian Healy’s injury. I’m guessing that’s good news, although nothing much was going to happen on a Sunday.

In defence of Joe and his over-reliance on Johnny, he invested a lot of time in Paddy Jackson and got him to the level where he won a test away in SA. That was mid 2016 and then he lost him through events beyond Joe’s control. Joey was the next most likely candidate and he gave him his debut in late 2016, but lost him to injury for huge stretches of 2019. So his attempts to develop a backup have been largely thwarted through no fault of his own.


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[ronk]

Interprovincial tension has mostly been 2nd to Irish unity since 2009.

It wasnt due to last forever and I think it broke at the Christmas Interprovincials. The 2nd Grand Slam raised expectations and provincial successes have been relevant but player movement is the issue.

Favouring players who move is bad for the ones who weren't ask to move and worse for the once who said no. It was a route back into (a stronger role in) selection for politics.

No insider will say anything publicly until they are ready to burn bridges. And there's no direct fix at this stage. For all his many many strengths this is not a strong area for Joe. This requires player leadership.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I'm really worried about the lineout but I watched the game again last night and really couldn't get over how England got away with jumping across the gap like they did. At one stage Kruis actually landed past where our players had been standing. I mentioned recently that it's happened in a few of the big games in the last 12 months (England v NZ, NZ v SA) and am really surprised that there isn't a directive to stamp it out, although it should be noticed anyway given how obvious it is. I'm not sure what channels of communication exist between international teams and referees but if I was Joe I'd be trying to make refs aware of it before we get to Japan. POM does it a bit too but it's not as obvious and I'd happily take a hit to our defensive lineout if it meant that we were more secure on our own throw.

That doesn't excuse the slow set up, bad calls, bad throws etc. And as people have already mentioned, we don't have any hooker right now who looks like they could slot in and improve things. So even with Dev and James Ryan back in harness I'll be worried.

It bugs me when people say that Ruddock would weaken our lineout. POM is far more of a threat on opposition ball, no doubt about that, but I think they underrate how good Rhys is as a lineout option. I think we need to throw Josh up the odd time as well, doesn't have to be often but SOB was always good for a surprise jump at two and was always unmarked when we did it.

[ronk]

I haven’t heard much about Cian Healy’s injury. I’m guessing that’s good news, although nothing much was going to happen on a Sunday.

In defence of Joe and his over-reliance on Johnny, he invested a lot of time in Paddy Jackson and got him to the level where he won a test away in SA. That was mid 2016 and then he lost him through events beyond Joe’s control. Joey was the next most likely candidate and he gave him his debut in late 2016, but lost him to injury for huge stretches of 2019. So his attempts to develop a backup have been largely thwarted through no fault of his own.


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The point about Sexton is usually that everything goes through him. Its not that he has to play, it's that too much decision making goes through him. But when you have a player like him, why wouldnt you use him.

Carbery played games where all of the tactical kicking was done by Murray. That's not how Joe was years ago.

[ronk]

I'm really worried about the lineout but I watched the game again last night and really couldn't get over how England got away with jumping across the gap like they did. At one stage Kruis actually landed past where our players had been standing. I mentioned recently that it's happened in a few of the big games in the last 12 months (England v NZ, NZ v SA) and am really surprised that there isn't a directive to stamp it out, although it should be noticed anyway given how obvious it is. I'm not sure what channels of communication exist between international teams and referees but if I was Joe I'd be trying to make refs aware of it before we get to Japan. POM does it a bit too but it's not as obvious and I'd happily take a hit to our defensive lineout if it meant that we were more secure on our own throw.

That doesn't excuse the slow set up, bad calls, bad throws etc. And as people have already mentioned, we don't have any hooker right now who looks like they could slot in and improve things. So even with Dev and James Ryan back in harness I'll be worried.

It bugs me when people say that Ruddock would weaken our lineout. POM is far more of a threat on opposition ball, no doubt about that, but I think they underrate how good Rhys is as a lineout option. I think we need to throw Josh up the odd time as well, doesn't have to be often but SOB was always good for a surprise jump at two and was always unmarked when we did it.

We had 3 primary jumpers: Kleyn, Henderson and POM; they had 2: Kruis and Itoge.

We had a fallback tactic that could have secured enough ball (@ a cost) once it was clear what they were doing. Instead we shortened lineout and made it easier for them. Movement is the easiest way to let a team close the gap.

[Peg Leg]

I'm really worried about the lineout but I watched the game again last night and really couldn't get over how England got away with jumping across the gap like they did. At one stage Kruis actually landed past where our players had been standing. I mentioned recently that it's happened in a few of the big games in the last 12 months (England v NZ, NZ v SA) and am really surprised that there isn't a directive to stamp it out, although it should be noticed anyway given how obvious it is. I'm not sure what channels of communication exist between international teams and referees but if I was Joe I'd be trying to make refs aware of it before we get to Japan. POM does it a bit too but it's not as obvious and I'd happily take a hit to our defensive lineout if it meant that we were more secure on our own throw.

That doesn't excuse the slow set up, bad calls, bad throws etc. And as people have already mentioned, we don't have any hooker right now who looks like they could slot in and improve things. So even with Dev and James Ryan back in harness I'll be worried.

It bugs me when people say that Ruddock would weaken our lineout. POM is far more of a threat on opposition ball, no doubt about that, but I think they underrate how good Rhys is as a lineout option. I think we need to throw Josh up the odd time as well, doesn't have to be often but SOB was always good for a surprise jump at two and was always unmarked when we did it.

The TMO was called into review that or similar (probably interfering - sound was off) for our overthrow that resulted in one of their try's in the second half. They did a good job disrupting, the throw was fine, but jaysus the lift on POM by J Mcgrath & Kleyn was brutal.

[Xanthippe]

I haven’t heard much about Cian Healy’s injury. I’m guessing that’s good news, although nothing much was going to happen on a Sunday.

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He put a picture of Lazarus on Instagram last night

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I haven’t heard much about Cian Healy’s injury. I’m guessing that’s good news, although nothing much was going to happen on a Sunday.

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He put a picture of Lazarus on Instagram last night

Good to hear, thought he was done for. Although I'd be worried that he'll just strap it up and play at 70% or whatever.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The TMO was called into review that or similar (probably interfering - sound was off) for our overthrow that resulted in one of their try's in the second half. They did a good job disrupting, the throw was fine, but jaysus the lift on POM by J Mcgrath & Kleyn was brutal.

Yeah it was for contact in the air, which was minimal, but he 100% jumped across the gap and how they missed it was beyond me.

[jimbobjoe]

What does Joe do for Wales on Saturday? Pick the same team and tell them It's last chance saloon or give the others a shot to prove they're better than the supposed incumbents?

I'd go for a bit of both and opt for;
1. Kilcoyne
2. Scannell
3. Porter
4. Toner
5. Henderson
6. Beirne
7. Ruddock (I know he's a six, but need for versatility)
8. Conan
9. Marmion
10. Byrne
11. Earls
12. Aki
13. Henshaw
14. Stockdale
15. Conway

16. Cronin
17. McGrath
18. Ryan
19. Ryan
20. POM
21. McGrath
22. Carty
23. Larmour

Front row - opportunities now to get spots for all 6.
Second row - Toner to show why he's been so missed; Henderson to prove he can deliver at lineout and leadership
Backrow - Starters to earn a spot on the plane; POM to try change the game or make an impact when he comes off the bench
HB's - Let's face it, Sexton and Murray will have to be inanimate for Joe not to pick them v Scotland. Chance to bump the others up the pecking order.
Centres - Bit more combo mixing. Think the four centres are all travelling.
OBs - Keeturls to show them how it's done and Stockdale to improve form a bit. Conway/Larmour to prove they're worth their spots.

[matt]

The line out has always been key for Ireland and Ryan & Toner have never been more important than they are now. With Conan at 8 and Van Der Flier at 7 I would like to see Henderson at 6 where he has always looked good for Ulster & would provide much needed aggression. O'Mahony a bench option but Stander way off the pace all season.

The hooker position is a real live one and coming to the conclusion that neither Best or Cronin should be starters. Would favour Herring with Cronin on bench but Scannell may also feature. Huge admirer of Rory Best but he does not look like he can be relied on in the lineout anymore and at 37 seems to be struggling all year to stay in team.

Very disappointed with Jordan Larmour & Stockdale last week & Conway at the moment looking much more impressive & Chris Farrell now a real alternative to partner Henshaw in the centre as Ringrose for all his undoubted talent has underperformed in last 6 months.

[hugonaut]

That was an incredibly discouraging performance. The players had the opportunity to draw a line under the 2019 Six Nations malaise; instead, that malaise is lingering and even seems to have deepened. What a revolting development.

The psychological and behind the scenes stuff is all speculation at this point. There's no doubt that identifying it and addressing it is the key to turning morale and results around, but who knows what the underlying issues are? I don't.

In my opinion, addressing the on-pitch issues is a good place to start. We're losing too many collisions. We don't have a single back-rower who can get over the gainline with any regularity. Our tackling is neither effective enough or offensive enough, or organised enough. Our lineout has become a significant weakness.

These are all issues that have carried through from February of this year. Our three wins from five in the Six Nations was as good as could be hoped for in result terms, given how we actually performed. We had one reasonable performance against France in the Six Nations [a B, in exam terms]; one adequate one [a C against Scotland], one which scraped a pass [a D against Italy], a fail [an E against England] and an absolute disaster against Wales [an NG in Foundation English].

So this is not just a malaise going back to the Wales game. Our average form over this calendar year has been really poor. The guys who have been in the side week-in, week-out bear a lot of that responsibility. They've had their chance to make it right; that's already happened, and they haven't been able to get it done.