6 Nations 2020

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JB1973
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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by JB1973 »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
JB1973 wrote:
MylesNaGapoleen wrote:north has had a few too many concussions recently. not sure why he is in.
Pivac had a golden spell at the scarlets for about 12 months but that was coming up for 2 years ago now and his cv suggested that was a flash in the pan, as does his time at wales so far

To quote a well respected figure in the welsh game "he is a p@ssed up kiwi chancer with a decent eye for talent but he will get found out sooner rather than later"

Looks like he is going to be proven right
The "well respected figure in the welsh game" may have spoken too soon as that was one of the best Wesh performances in the past 12 months. The pack turned up and kept at it for the 80 minutes. The backs were back to their best and Biggar was perhaps the best player on the pitch.

As previously mentioned, the refereeing and all officials involved were very poor.

I respectfully disagree, we have played far better in several matches in the last 12 months (eng and Ireland in last 6 nations, eng in world cup warm up and aus and sa in world cup spring to mind)

TBH for 70 minutes we were battered and two late trys against 13 men gave a misleading scoreline

Our scrum was poor, our defence soft and we kicked away too much ball

When we did keep in it hand we looked good and scored a superb try from the KO

I thought the ref should have looked at a possible shoulder charge on biggar in the first min (then again ken owens should have had a yellow card for his high tackle on youngs and maybe parkes on tulagi later on)

Tulagi challenge on a north given his history of head knocks was a disgrace and I hope he gets a lengthy ban , Jones should also get pulled and fined for his ridiculous 16 vs 13 man comments not acceptable from this professional gobsh_te

As for Marler, the guy is an idiot not sure if he was trying to wind up awj or if he thought he was being funny but he could also cop a ban (laws state the ban starts at 12 weeks and runs to 28 weeks for that sort of thing)


If we don't tighten up our defence (we have given 10 trys in the last 3 games) we run the very real risk of losing to Scotland next week, our scrum half is literally a turnstyle in defence and should be sent back to the regional game until he learns to tackle

On the plus side tupric has proven just how good a player he is, naividi was excellent , Tomkins is a game breaker, biggar showed his courage playing on one leg , webb looked sharp in his cameo and north had his best game for some while.


There is certainly a case to look at the north slade/tulagi incident for a penalty try if tulagi doesn't get involved north is well infield and with his size and reach he could certainly look to place the ball for a try

But as I said earlier the best side won and we can have no complaints


On a side note Tandy was much maligned by the welsh media but he went off to NSW improved his coaching skills, and has done v well with Scotland as defence they have conceded only 4 trys in 4 tests in this 6 nations campaign good for him

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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by Fan with smartphone »

agree. parkes very lucky not to be carded. I was watching in a pub and couldn't hear the TMO discussion following the Tuilagi tackle on North....was a penalty try discussed? thought North would have scored.[/quote]

Penalty try is for an occasion where without the illegal action of an opponent a try is a certainty.

Slade was still holding onto North's leg in tackle along with moving him towards the sideline. PT shouldn't have entered the equation for me.

Haven't seen 'fencing response' from North mentioned after impact. Not a good sign at all.[/quote]

I thought North had a good chance of touching it down....momentum would have brought him close to the line despite slades attention.
Here is the line....and you can see slade has no chance of getting him into touch never mind pulling him back.

Image

anyway...lets agree to disagree on the penalty try thing.

what was the "fencing response"? I missed that.[/quote]


Is an instinct that when you get a head injury and your arms come up like a boxer or a fencer even if sparked out. Eddie Jones messing about with that kind of bullshit commentary like that, a number of that English team in the way they play under him, and the weak way they’ve been referred; no harm but they are lost for a good hidin. To hell with the oul match, I really couldn’t care less about the score. Maybe I’m I’ll disciplined but if they are gonna get away with this relentless goading and illegality well, thems the rules of engagement then.

I thought Peyper’s refereeing in the Eng - Ire game was abysmal and should really have led to an even more bad tempered and potentially dangerous game than it already was. You might say that’s his old-school style, but it’s not good enough. Under Joe, our discipline was astonishing really. I thought there would be an inevitable drop off there under Farrell. If anything though against England, the Irish players showed way too much restraint. Saturday was a continuation of that really for Wales. I know they did better, and O’Keefe did punish in places, but still. There are gonna be more dangerous games with this England team unless somebody draws a line under it.

I get what jones is at. Sometimes a coach will just turn a blind eye to a player going off script discipline wise and I’ll discipline thrives. I heard Dave Rennie say recently what you tolerate you promote. That can happen, but that’s not what he seems to be doing here. He appears to be encouraging this. It’s the ashes sledging stuff, the bodyline series, Wimbledon’s nobody likes us and we don’t care. He’s an Aussie with a grudging respect for the general dislike the English rugby team can garner. It’s because they are generally annoyingly good. I get that. I think a lot of people and nations have that kind of respect. I think he’s taken it too far. Like Eddie didn’t invent the intensity of relations between the nations and teams in this tournament. I’m no historian, but I’m pretty sure that’s been there a while, and the games were dangerous and tough enough already. If anything probably too much so and the games need to be made more safe, but that’s just me. I agree with rtb too that they’d be a far better team themselves without that stuff too, but that’s their lookout. The issue I have is the weakness of the refereeing of that, particularly in this past 2 games.

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dropkick
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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by dropkick »

The breakdown is a mess and it's making a lottery of the game, a lottery that the home side usually wins. You're supposed to support your own body weight but that's been ignored so everyone is accelerating into it like missiles. The likes of Courtney Lawes is having great success from it.


I don't know what the officials were thinking. I remember the world cup when Ben O'Keefe was praised for being lenient when he should have dished out more cards. Well Saturday's game is what happens when you get a lenient ref and a TMO who turns a blind eye to everything. Sure, they red carded Tuilagi but the game was essentially over at that stage. The Marler incident was seen but ignored because they didn't want to make a big decision.


Great result for us yesterday with Scotland winning well. It was a nightmare match for the french, the first big match they were expected to win. Hopefully the weekends match goes ahead because it would be an ideal time to play them. They've injuries, suspensions, confidence will have taken a big hit, 6 day turnaround and their championship chance is almost gone.

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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

dropkick wrote:The breakdown is a mess and it's making a lottery of the game, a lottery that the home side usually wins. You're supposed to support your own body weight but that's been ignored so everyone is accelerating into it like missiles. The likes of Courtney Lawes is having great success from it.

It also leads to injuries when players enter from the side or don't have a target to clean out so end up connecting with necks and heads. For so many reasons I can't understand why there isn't an appetite to tidy this up properly. I appreciate that refs can't see everything and there does have to be some leeway in order to have a decent game, but some stuff is just so obvious and crosses the line. I know there's a breakdown committee being set up and I'm sure that'll help in time, but what exactly is stopping the refs from just implementing the laws now? We don't need a committee to say that sealing off needs to be stamped out.

Watching the Tuilagi incident again yesterday reminded me that I hate this bullshit about players pretending to wrap one arm while they lead with the other shoulder. Loads of players have got away with terrible hits as a result of it, Farrell being a regular culprit.

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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Midi-Olympique website has just reported that the France v Irelande 6N fixture for Saturday has been abandoned. The Report says that the French Sports Minister requested the 6 Nations Committee to make this decision based on "advice from the French Ministry of Health".

More when it is announced

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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by OTT »

dropkick wrote:

I don't know what the officials were thinking. I remember the world cup when Ben O'Keefe was praised for being lenient when he should have dished out more cards. Well Saturday's game is what happens when you get a lenient ref and a TMO who turns a blind eye to everything. Sure, they red carded Tuilagi but the game was essentially over at that stage. The Marler incident was seen but ignored because they didn't want to make a big decision.

Over the last couple of years we have talked about the events in the Ireland v NZ game in Dublin 2016 as the watershed moment where it was decided that premeditated dangerous/illegal approach to foul play in rugby would not be tolerated anymore. I think that match at the weekend is proof that it is open season again. From literally the very first minute where both Tuilagi and Curry both chose to go high in a situation where they could and should have gone low on Biggar and got away with it the whole match was full of choices which erred on the wrong side of legal. Individuals like North, Biggar and AWJ were targeted usually illegally and dangerously. I think it was LRiP who said this English team is really bloody good if they concentrated less on trying to do damage to teams through foul play and more on their rugby they would actually beat teams more convincingly.

Also we laugh and moan on here about the French tv directors seemingly being very one sided , who ever was controlling the replays of all the incidents in that game at the weekend definitely seemed to be under orders to keep the bad hits off the screens for as long as possible.

Without a dog in the fight what was a very enjoyable game as a neutral was spoiled by a lack of strong reffing. Eddie Jones had the cheek to make his comments after that match. f%~king hell!
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Ruckedtobits wrote:Midi-Olympique website has just reported that the France v Irelande 6N fixture for Saturday has been abandoned. The Report says that the French Sports Minister requested the 6 Nations Committee to make this decision based on "advice from the French Ministry of Health".

More when it is announced
It sounds like all games are off and will be played in the last week of October, with Ireland playing Italy the week before.

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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by Dave Cahill »

OTT wrote: Also we laugh and moan on here about the French tv directors seemingly being very one sided , who ever was controlling the replays of all the incidents in that game at the weekend definitely seemed to be under orders to keep the bad hits off the screens for as long as possible.
The TMO has access to all angles at all times. What is seen on TV is completely irrelevant
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OTT
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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by OTT »

Dave Cahill wrote:
OTT wrote: Also we laugh and moan on here about the French tv directors seemingly being very one sided , who ever was controlling the replays of all the incidents in that game at the weekend definitely seemed to be under orders to keep the bad hits off the screens for as long as possible.
The TMO has access to all angles at all times. What is seen on TV is completely irrelevant
I understand that, my point was that they sanitized the viewing for people at home. It was like watching a movie in the old says where they would just randomly cut out the foul language.
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Dave Cahill wrote:
OTT wrote: Also we laugh and moan on here about the French tv directors seemingly being very one sided , who ever was controlling the replays of all the incidents in that game at the weekend definitely seemed to be under orders to keep the bad hits off the screens for as long as possible.
The TMO has access to all angles at all times. What is seen on TV is completely irrelevant
That's irrelevant in Italy anyway because all the footage is just of the attractive girls in the crowd anyway.

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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by fourthirtythree »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
OTT wrote: Also we laugh and moan on here about the French tv directors seemingly being very one sided , who ever was controlling the replays of all the incidents in that game at the weekend definitely seemed to be under orders to keep the bad hits off the screens for as long as possible.
The TMO has access to all angles at all times. What is seen on TV is completely irrelevant
That's irrelevant in Italy anyway because all the footage is just of the attractive girls in the crowd anyway.
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JB1973
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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by JB1973 »

OTT wrote:
dropkick wrote:

I don't know what the officials were thinking. I remember the world cup when Ben O'Keefe was praised for being lenient when he should have dished out more cards. Well Saturday's game is what happens when you get a lenient ref and a TMO who turns a blind eye to everything. Sure, they red carded Tuilagi but the game was essentially over at that stage. The Marler incident was seen but ignored because they didn't want to make a big decision.

Over the last couple of years we have talked about the events in the Ireland v NZ game in Dublin 2016 as the watershed moment where it was decided that premeditated dangerous/illegal approach to foul play in rugby would not be tolerated anymore. I think that match at the weekend is proof that it is open season again. From literally the very first minute where both Tuilagi and Curry both chose to go high in a situation where they could and should have gone low on Biggar and got away with it the whole match was full of choices which erred on the wrong side of legal. Individuals like North, Biggar and AWJ were targeted usually illegally and dangerously. I think it was LRiP who said this English team is really bloody good if they concentrated less on trying to do damage to teams through foul play and more on their rugby they would actually beat teams more convincingly.

Also we laugh and moan on here about the French tv directors seemingly being very one sided , who ever was controlling the replays of all the incidents in that game at the weekend definitely seemed to be under orders to keep the bad hits off the screens for as long as possible.

Without a dog in the fight what was a very enjoyable game as a neutral was spoiled by a lack of strong reffing. Eddie Jones had the cheek to make his comments after that match. f%~king hell!

England got bullied by the boks in that world cup final and also by the French in the first half in the 6 nations, they have seemingly decided this won't happen again and have set up about to intimidate and bash up the opposition (especially in the home games).

This is almost a deliberate attempt to employ foul play to get wins and the utter drivel jones comes out with before and after the game time and time again has also gone unchecked.

As pointed out the officials appear to have been very lenient with them and they have taken full advantage of this , it is either going to take a strong ref/tmo to start red carding them, a strong citing officer to hand out lengthy bans or an opposition team to lay out a few of their bully boys for this to change.

England and Jones seem to want to be the team the rest love to hate, so be it but when three or four of his first team are banned and he cops a massive fine for bringing the game into disrepute , lets see how they enjoy that

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6 Nations 2020

Post by Twist »


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Morf
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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by Morf »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote:what was the "fencing response"? I missed that.
As North hits the ground arms come up around his head as he releases the ball.

Unfortunately the extended highlights cuts out as you see this motion on the close up and it's difficult to see on the longer shot.

Below somewhat gives an idea although to be fair it could just be a more 'normal' to a big hit and knowing you were in touch.

With his history chances shouldn't be taken though.

Image

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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by Morf »

fourthirtythree wrote:
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:That's irrelevant in Italy anyway because all the footage is just of the attractive girls in the crowd anyway.
Always play to your strengths.
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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by blockhead »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
OTT wrote: Also we laugh and moan on here about the French tv directors seemingly being very one sided , who ever was controlling the replays of all the incidents in that game at the weekend definitely seemed to be under orders to keep the bad hits off the screens for as long as possible.
The TMO has access to all angles at all times. What is seen on TV is completely irrelevant
That's irrelevant in Italy anyway because all the footage is just of the attractive girls in the crowd anyway.
A common mistake. They are just average looking girls by Italian standards.
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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by hugonaut »

Clearly the tournament is effectively over. Stretching a five-game tournament out over eight months is a nonsense for anyone but completists.

Farrell's tenure has got off to a mediocre, and now truncated, start. Very few changes in playing personnel to an underperforming group, underwhelming changes in coaching personnel, no managerial appointment and the same on-pitch weaknesses that crept in during the last of Schmidt's six years in charge - error-strewn halfback play, an inability to physically stand up against the strength and aggression of the English, and a very brittle sense of confidence.

Aside from a set of attacking tactics that were successful in one out of three games, there has been very little to take from this tournament. I've got some sympathy for Farrell because the tournament has been cut short on the back of a dispiriting loss, with no chance to make amends for it. But this has been an underwhelming start to his test coach tenure.

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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by SoupyNorman »

May have been back in the earlier days just after amateurism; but when the foot and mouth disease led to two Ireland games being moved in a similar fashion; I recall them both being taken quite seriously with a lot of interest. Scotland halting Ireland's chance of a Grand Slam decider with England before Ireland added themselves to the group of preventing England from winning the Slam in their last game.

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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by JB1973 »

hugonaut wrote:Clearly the tournament is effectively over. Stretching a five-game tournament out over eight months is a nonsense for anyone but completists.

Farrell's tenure has got off to a mediocre, and now truncated, start. Very few changes in playing personnel to an underperforming group, underwhelming changes in coaching personnel, no managerial appointment and the same on-pitch weaknesses that crept in during the last of Schmidt's six years in charge - error-strewn halfback play, an inability to physically stand up against the strength and aggression of the English, and a very brittle sense of confidence.

Aside from a set of attacking tactics that were successful in one out of three games, there has been very little to take from this tournament. I've got some sympathy for Farrell because the tournament has been cut short on the back of a dispiriting loss, with no chance to make amends for it. But this has been an underwhelming start to his test coach tenure.

What length of contract does Farrell have? and are there any break clauses in it? The IRFU must be looking at what Cullen and Lancaster are doing with Leinster and what jones did as part of the sa set up and at least having the conversation regarding succession planning

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Dave Cahill
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Re: 6 Nations 2020

Post by Dave Cahill »

He's been in charge for three games, we've won two of them and he is two wins away from a Championship. Its a bit early to be running around with our heads on fire.
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