Tour to NZ 2022

[riocard911]

ROC on OTB really jumped the shark, should have stopped when he said maybe larmour at 15. Gets on to birches article….

That's crazy. Maybe he'd like to give Robbie a run at 15 in green too, seeing as it went so well the last time? Hand slapping forehead in disbelief emoji.....

[Barry]

ROC on OTB really jumped the shark, should have stopped when he said maybe larmour at 15. Gets on to birches article….

ROC has a marginally better understanding of the game than Gavin Cummiskey had.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

[paddyor]

Remours HArry's on his way home......he has none of his brothers durability. Speaking of which, for me he was done after that away game in England end of 2020 where they were able to have 2 players cover the backfield (pre 50:22) and we still couldn't get the ball wide because the receivers from Byrne were getting walloped behind the gain line so much. But, since then Ireland have been hitting the notes Catt wanted and Leinster have changed tack too. He made the URC team of the year where we broke our previous record for PD IIRC. I know it's not just about his pace, he's not a physical palyer as like Biggar who isn't fast.

Not a perfect metric and maybe skewed slightly by his 50 odd vs MHP but that's there for Sexton too.
R Byrne 58 conversions in 1225 mins
Sexton 31 in 591
H Byrne 10 in 527 mins

[hugonaut]

ROC on OTB really jumped the shark, should have stopped when he said maybe larmour at 15. Gets on to birches article….

Some of the reaction to last weekend's loss has been not just borderline hysterical, but absolutely hysterical.

When you are a test level coach, you try to win every match: "win today, win tomorrow" as Ian Foster put it. For most coaches, that's just because they're super-competitive, but maybe there's a 1% bit of thinking that creeps in because it means that they won't have to put up with coverage of their game that is shrill to the point of irritation.

The All Blacks haven't lost to anybody in 28 years [47 matches] in Eden Park. That doesn't happen by accident. We had a very, very small chance of success in that game. Far better teams than us have gone over there and lost.

We've lost two games in the last eleven, one against France in Paris, one against New Zealand, both of whom were ranked higher than us at the time. All losses are disappointing, but they're part of rugby. Not everything is a disaster. But if you read the majority of opinion over the last week, we take a loss to New Zealand in Eden Park and all of a sudden we're in crisis.

One of my mates sent me a screenshot of Keith Wood blabbing away on OTB saying, "We want farmer types, we want guys from the country" and that we "need to look outside Dublin for bigger players to add depth to the forwards" – words genuinely fail me.

This mystical belief in a race of massive farmers dotted around Ireland who can play test level rugby ... a child wouldn't say that. It's nonsense. Who are these lads? What are their names? What clubs do they play for?

The provinces want lads who will help them win. They'll take big, athletic forwards from any background, and do. They are always going to miss a few players, because this is reality and nobody gets everything right all the time. But this line of 'thinking', that the fields are thronged with seven foot tall Kellys from Killane and the IRFU are too intent on fostering the game in Dublin 4 ... it's just nonsense. Populist guff and magical thinking from a spoofer.

[dropkick]

ROC on OTB really jumped the shark, should have stopped when he said maybe larmour at 15. Gets on to birches article….

Some of the reaction to last weekend's loss has been not just borderline hysterical, but absolutely hysterical.

When you are a test level coach, you try to win every match: "win today, win tomorrow" as Ian Foster put it. For most coaches, that's just because they're super-competitive, but maybe there's a 1% bit of thinking that creeps in because it means that they won't have to put up with coverage of their game that is shrill to the point of irritation.

The All Blacks haven't lost to anybody in 28 years [47 matches] in Eden Park. That doesn't happen by accident. We had a very, very small chance of success in that game. Far better teams than us have gone over there and lost.

We've lost two games in the last eleven, one against France in Paris, one against New Zealand, both of whom were ranked higher than us at the time. All losses are disappointing, but they're part of rugby. Not everything is a disaster. But if you read the majority of opinion over the last week, we take a loss to New Zealand in Eden Park and all of a sudden we're in crisis.

One of my mates sent me a screenshot of Keith Wood blabbing away on OTB saying, "We want farmer types, we want guys from the country" and that we "need to look outside Dublin for bigger players to add depth to the forwards" – words genuinely fail me.

This mystical belief in a race of massive farmers dotted around Ireland who can play test level rugby ... a child wouldn't say that. It's nonsense. Who are these lads? What are their names? What clubs do they play for?

The provinces want lads who will help them win. They'll take big, athletic forwards from any background, and do. They are always going to miss a few players, because this is reality and nobody gets everything right all the time. But this line of 'thinking', that the fields are thronged with seven foot tall Kellys from Killane and the IRFU are too intent on fostering the game in Dublin 4 ... it's just nonsense. Populist guff and magical thinking from a spoofer.

I can see his point regarding farmers. The GAA dominates rural ireland yet irelands last 3 main tightheads, Hayes, Ross and Furlong were all from farming backgrounds.


The IRFU must be doing something right as the U20s have some very good props.

[ronk]

We all dream of a team of Sean O'Briens...

[Oldschoolsocks]

ROC on OTB really jumped the shark, should have stopped when he said maybe larmour at 15. Gets on to birches article….

Some of the reaction to last weekend's loss has been not just borderline hysterical, but absolutely hysterical.

When you are a test level coach, you try to win every match: "win today, win tomorrow" as Ian Foster put it. For most coaches, that's just because they're super-competitive, but maybe there's a 1% bit of thinking that creeps in because it means that they won't have to put up with coverage of their game that is shrill to the point of irritation.

The All Blacks haven't lost to anybody in 28 years [47 matches] in Eden Park. That doesn't happen by accident. We had a very, very small chance of success in that game. Far better teams than us have gone over there and lost.

We've lost two games in the last eleven, one against France in Paris, one against New Zealand, both of whom were ranked higher than us at the time. All losses are disappointing, but they're part of rugby. Not everything is a disaster. But if you read the majority of opinion over the last week, we take a loss to New Zealand in Eden Park and all of a sudden we're in crisis.

One of my mates sent me a screenshot of Keith Wood blabbing away on OTB saying, "We want farmer types, we want guys from the country" and that we "need to look outside Dublin for bigger players to add depth to the forwards" – words genuinely fail me.

This mystical belief in a race of massive farmers dotted around Ireland who can play test level rugby ... a child wouldn't say that. It's nonsense. Who are these lads? What are their names? What clubs do they play for?

The provinces want lads who will help them win. They'll take big, athletic forwards from any background, and do. They are always going to miss a few players, because this is reality and nobody gets everything right all the time. But this line of 'thinking', that the fields are thronged with seven foot tall Kellys from Killane and the IRFU are too intent on fostering the game in Dublin 4 ... it's just nonsense. Populist guff and magical thinking from a spoofer.

I can see his point regarding farmers. The GAA dominates rural ireland yet irelands last 3 main tightheads, Hayes, Ross and Furlong were all from farming backgrounds.


The IRFU must be doing something right as the U20s have some very good props.

But Woodies point about farmers is that we’re not looking for them, but you correctly point out that not only are the Leinster branch looking at talent country wide, but also that some of the most successful Leinster Players are from “farming stock” - SOB and BFTagdh to name two. So Woodie is talking shite, which is kind of par for the course for him I’m afraid.

[Flash Gordon]

ROC on OTB really jumped the shark, should have stopped when he said maybe larmour at 15. Gets on to birches article….

Some of the reaction to last weekend's loss has been not just borderline hysterical, but absolutely hysterical.

When you are a test level coach, you try to win every match: "win today, win tomorrow" as Ian Foster put it. For most coaches, that's just because they're super-competitive, but maybe there's a 1% bit of thinking that creeps in because it means that they won't have to put up with coverage of their game that is shrill to the point of irritation.

The All Blacks haven't lost to anybody in 28 years [47 matches] in Eden Park. That doesn't happen by accident. We had a very, very small chance of success in that game. Far better teams than us have gone over there and lost.

We've lost two games in the last eleven, one against France in Paris, one against New Zealand, both of whom were ranked higher than us at the time. All losses are disappointing, but they're part of rugby. Not everything is a disaster. But if you read the majority of opinion over the last week, we take a loss to New Zealand in Eden Park and all of a sudden we're in crisis.

One of my mates sent me a screenshot of Keith Wood blabbing away on OTB saying, "We want farmer types, we want guys from the country" and that we "need to look outside Dublin for bigger players to add depth to the forwards" – words genuinely fail me.

This mystical belief in a race of massive farmers dotted around Ireland who can play test level rugby ... a child wouldn't say that. It's nonsense. Who are these lads? What are their names? What clubs do they play for?

The provinces want lads who will help them win. They'll take big, athletic forwards from any background, and do. They are always going to miss a few players, because this is reality and nobody gets everything right all the time. But this line of 'thinking', that the fields are thronged with seven foot tall Kellys from Killane and the IRFU are too intent on fostering the game in Dublin 4 ... it's just nonsense. Populist guff and magical thinking from a spoofer.

Exactly right. Absolutely hysterical and Keith Wood was one of our greatest ever players but he's a waffley analyst and asubscribes"to the brave and faithful/stand up and fight" school of thought which just isn't enough in the modern game. We don't want big lumps because that's not the game plan we want to play. We want highly skilled, fast and athletic players who are good footballers not crash bang wallop merchants. This is the game plan Leinster play and the one Ireland want to play. If we play to a physical game plan we will be playing teams like South Africa at a game they are much better at and much better equipped to play.

And by the way, this has been a very successful game plan, it only fails when it's badly executed. The two games you mentioned, France and Eden Park were badly executed, particularly Eden Park. We had them on the rack in the first quarter and they were struggling to live with us. We gifted them a way back into the game.

[TMC]

He only got nine minutes against Japan this time last year, and the game against the USA was a washout – Zebre would have put 40 or 50 points on the Eagles. I was happy that the fixture was organised and went ahead, but from an Irish perspective its value as a test match was next to worthless. Everyone looked good that game, but it's like looking good against the Southern Queens. For example, Farrell has put James Hume into two Six Nations matchday squads and a Maori game since then [on the back of good Ulster form] and Hume was useless in the first two when put into the game in comfortable positions, and was mediocre in the third before getting injured.

IMHO Hume looks good for Ulster because he plays outside McCloskey, who makes him look like a superstar. McCloskey consistently gets his hands free in contact but physically ties up the defence giving Hume the space & the ball to do the flash stuff and he has the pace if given space, but the hard work all done inside him. McCloskey has superb hands in contact and his offloading skills are up there with any other Irish 12. Rarely fails to get over the gainline. In many ways his playing style is tailor made for how Ireland are looking to play. Have posted before would love to see McCloskey get a chance at 12 inside Henshaw against meaningful opposition.

Re Woody and Farmers, think he is driving at the fact without Henderson we don't have any real animal forwards. Still remember him going through Etzebeth a few years back. Warmed the cockles. We just don't produce many forwards like that. Where is the nasty barsteward in our pack this weekend? Bar POM there are no real street fighters, lots of technically good athletes but no scary ones. Games are won and lost up front, we need a couple more genuinely hard forwards, don't care where they come from, they could be hairdressers for all I care. Think Coombes and McCarthy might bring that to the table if given the chance.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I think that's a little harsh on Hume, he's got great feet and is really strong in contact. They work well together for Ulster but I wouldn't say he needs McCloskey in order to look good. He's been a little bit disappointing in a green jersey but it's not like he's had many opportunities and the Maori game was a tough gig.

I don't really get the love for McCloskey. Brilliant player for most of the season alright but rarely shows up in big games IMO, I used to think he was deserving of more caps but as the years have gone by I can see more and more why he wasn't backed.

[leinsterforever]

Remours HArry's on his way home......he has none of his brothers durability. Speaking of which, for me he was done after that away game in England end of 2020 where they were able to have 2 players cover the backfield (pre 50:22) and we still couldn't get the ball wide because the receivers from Byrne were getting walloped behind the gain line so much. But, since then Ireland have been hitting the notes Catt wanted and Leinster have changed tack too. He made the URC team of the year where we broke our previous record for PD IIRC. I know it's not just about his pace, he's not a physical palyer as like Biggar who isn't fast.

Not a perfect metric and maybe skewed slightly by his 50 odd vs MHP but that's there for Sexton too.
R Byrne 58 conversions in 1225 mins
Sexton 31 in 591
H Byrne 10 in 527 mins

I guess that would mean 10. Frawley, 12. McCloskey, 13. JOB, 15. Lowry for the second Maori game.

[riocard911]

He only got nine minutes against Japan this time last year, and the game against the USA was a washout – Zebre would have put 40 or 50 points on the Eagles. I was happy that the fixture was organised and went ahead, but from an Irish perspective its value as a test match was next to worthless. Everyone looked good that game, but it's like looking good against the Southern Queens. For example, Farrell has put James Hume into two Six Nations matchday squads and a Maori game since then [on the back of good Ulster form] and Hume was useless in the first two when put into the game in comfortable positions, and was mediocre in the third before getting injured.

IMHO Hume looks good for Ulster because he plays outside McCloskey, who makes him look like a superstar. McCloskey consistently gets his hands free in contact but physically ties up the defence giving Hume the space & the ball to do the flash stuff and he has the pace if given space, but the hard work all done inside him. McCloskey has superb hands in contact and his offloading skills are up there with any other Irish 12. Rarely fails to get over the gainline. In many ways his playing style is tailor made for how Ireland are looking to play. Have posted before would love to see McCloskey get a chance at 12 inside Henshaw against meaningful opposition.

Re Woody and Farmers, think he is driving at the fact without Henderson we don't have any real animal forwards. Still remember him going through Etzebeth a few years back. Warmed the cockles. We just don't produce many forwards like that. Where is the nasty barsteward in our pack this weekend? Bar POM there are no real street fighters, lots of technically good athletes but no scary ones. Games are won and lost up front, we need a couple more genuinely hard forwards, don't care where they come from, they could be hairdressers for all I care. Think Coombes and McCarthy might bring that to the table if given the chance.

I agree with this - in blue and green. Reckon similar thinking led to Seanie getting the gig as "contact" coach at Leinster. He'll learn them about contact alright!!!

[OTT]

I think that's a little harsh on Hume, he's got great feet and is really strong in contact. They work well together for Ulster but I wouldn't say he needs McCloskey in order to look good. He's been a little bit disappointing in a green jersey but it's not like he's had many opportunities and the Maori game was a tough gig.

I don't really get the love for McCloskey. Brilliant player for most of the season alright but rarely shows up in big games IMO, I used to think he was deserving of more caps but as the years have gone by I can see more and more why he wasn't backed.

I’m with you there, I’d say Hume makes McCloskey look better than the other way around. I think Hume will be a real option for us at 13 which is what we want - depth. He reminds me of Ringrose when he first broke through.



Going off topic here…

There is a good bit of discussion about the guys who could have come in. We can split hairs about players like Coombes getting in, or starting Aki over one of the other centres and really I don’t think most people would put up to much of an argument if they were brought in to start or if Hume was fit if he got a shot in a test. I think they are all players in a position where we have a bit of depth but they would definitely be up to the task if included, Coombes I think would have a lot more game time if he didn’t miss the Autumn games with an ‘undisclosed illness’ he then picked up covid with Munster in the ill fated South Africa trip which put him out till the New Year and put him on the periphery for the 6 nations. When he finally got back Dirty Dev Toner nearly ended his career with a clearout that he got up and played on through (which was shortsighted) and he further aggravated the injury and went off and missed the two games against Exeter. He’s been on the back foot since early November.

What I’m saying is, hopefully Coombes gets in for the final test either starting or on the bench. I think Farrell will switch one up in the back row he has done in the different windows previously, he’s in a position where we have great depth, a test Lion, a guy who would have been a test Lion but for injury (imo) and he’s missed a big chunk of opportunities but he’s a really likeable no nonsense player. I think he will also start Aki in the final test because the centres are another area he has rotated in the different previous windows.

All that still leaves us struggling for depth where we really need it, the front row and at 10. And I don’t mean lobbing in a guy for the sake of giving someone game time, I mean going I’d love to see him get game time because he’s class eg Coombes. I think a lot of the analysis about Farrell and his lack of rotation is unfair, it’s not like he has a load of Rolls Royce’s and Ferrari’s that he’s keeping hidden from everyone. It’s a bit of a phoney war in the Irish media talking about our lack of changes to the 23. We are where we are with our squad.

We are a very good side who lacks depth in some key positions, same as it ever was, throwing in some player who will never be at the level of the incumbent doesn’t make our squad better it will just help us lose more regularly.

[Oldschool]

Sooooo........
HB on his way home, now that is a surprise.
Will a replacement be called out. The reason I ask is I'm wondering who Farrell considers to be next in line.
By not calling up a replacement he will be simply doing a dodging bullets excercise because he should have brought the replacement on tour in the first place.
Yeah, yeah I know we all want to see Frawley playing at 10 and maybe bringing HB was Faz's way of putting that message out there come in No. 10 your time is up.
Woody has gone on soft boy patrol, has Neiler being whispering sweet nothings in his ear, you'd wonder.
The debate as to our best no. 10s rages on.
The approach to take here is not the "why a player shouldn't be selected " but "why a player should be selected".
Basically in list of priorities what does the bould Faz want from his OH and who is closest to that in his opinion.
What are the common positives that JC and HB bring to the table

[ronk]

It's Friday. If they haven't left already it would be a squeeze to make Tuesday.

Is there any point is bringing out a spare for the last test?

[Oldschool]

It's Friday. If they haven't left already it would be a squeeze to make Tuesday.

Is there any point is bringing out a spare for the last test?

Now isn't the timing just very convenient because you've just asked the question, that they wanted asked!
But to your question, if we are prepared to have a make shift 10 on the bench for a test against NZ then we should have brought him in the first place and it's never too late. Added to that, Sexton coming off early in the first test really means we could very quickly find ourselves in trouble come the last test.
I know it's real "There's a hole in my Dear Liza" stuff but even a straw OH is better than none.

[the spoofer]

I suppose Lowry can cover 10 In an emergency

[neiliog93]

Keith Wood is evidence that you don't need a high IQ to be a great rugby player. Dull as a doorknob.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Keith Wood is evidence that you don't need a high IQ to be a great rugby player. Dull as a doorknob.

Post of the day

[ronk]

I suppose Lowry can cover 10 In an emergency

So can Bully Burns