Tour to NZ 2022

[neill_m]

Have the venues for the test been confirmed ?

Provisionally yes, but not 100% etc. Auckland for Tests 1 & 3, Wellington for Test 2 according to the Rugby Travel Ireland link.

According to NZ CEO on 21st March, 3rd Test will be in Dunedin, not Auckland. Possibly worth checking this on NZ website.

No All Blacks fixtures for 2022 listed on the website. The Rugby Travel Ireland link did say venues could change and itinerary would change with it etc.

[erskinechilders]

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2022/04/26/ir ... n-in-july/

Tour dates confirmed. 2 midweek matches to be added to the tour. Gonna be very exciting.

[jimbobjoe]

Do Sky have the rights for this tour?

[TMC]

33 is the RWC squad, for me this tour is about looking under every rock to make sure no viable option missed.
Personally think Frawley should travel, too good & versatile not to & think McCloskey worth another look too, a lot of what he does makes Hume look so good. If Jimmy O’Brien continues in his current form you could see him unseating one of the more established players or possibly Lowry, I know he’s nimble but you’d worry for him against some of the Islanders.
In the front five would like to see Marty Moore and Thornbury given the opportunity, Jean Kleyn also looking like he has done some serious work on his catch/pass/offload of late so would not discount his chances either, especially if it transpires than neither Baird or Ryan travel. If he has worked on his handling the way JVDF has on his carrying then he is worth another look, personally think he’s better than Treadwell. Back row is really interesting, Prendergast for me is really putting his hand up, Conan needs to kick on, he’s been a little bit underwhelming this season, POM has stopped fannying about on the tramlines and got back to doing what he does best, although that was probably under orders in fairness to him & Hodnett is emerging as a genuine option.
It would be great if finances allowed them to continue the process of involving developmental players and to bring a few along in case of emergency like Ahern, McCarthy, Wythcherly, Hodnett, Prendergast if not in directly, Penny or Kendellen. Get them in to the environment and dangle the carrot of RWC involvement to spur their progress, the marginal cost of taking a few more guys along wouldn’t be massive and would be an investment for the future.
Carbery playing with some of his old swagger of late, can see Ben Healy’s game time being quite limited in Munster’s next few games so not sure how much of an opportunity he will get to put himself in the shop window. On recent evidence Harry B is not the answer for now, both Ross B and Carty are playing better and for all the talk of Harry having a higher ceiling there for me there just has not really been enough evidence to date to justify his continued inclusion. Ross B and Carty are both very resilient and rarely injured and given the injury profile of both Sexton and Carbery (and Harry Byrne in fairness) they need a couple of guys like that in there who can ship the hits. The Kiwi’s will try to take Sexton out, by fair means or foul, so I’d go fully stacked with him at 10 for the first test and then give him the rest of the series off. Jackson is a boat that has sailed, toxic to go there from so many perspectives– fantastic player that he is - but can’t seem him playing for Ireland again.
Anyway a couple of poor sods are very likely to miss out through injury incurred between now and the end of the season. Kelleher doing the same shoulder not great for instance, hope that is not too serious
I wonder would Farrell be ballsy enough to go full strength for the first test and then send the elderly statesmen (Sexton Healy POM Earls) home and really look to develop over the other games. That’s what New Zealand do when they travel mid cycle so they cant really complain if a country does that when travelling there

[neill_m]

Do Sky have the rights for this tour?

For the test matches anyway, I assume if the other two games get arranged they will show them also.

[Ruckedtobits]

33 is the RWC squad, for me this tour is about looking under every rock to make sure no viable option missed.
Personally think Frawley should travel, too good & versatile not to & think McCloskey worth another look too, a lot of what he does makes Hume look so good. If Jimmy O’Brien continues in his current form you could see him unseating one of the more established players or possibly Lowry, I know he’s nimble but you’d worry for him against some of the Islanders.
In the front five would like to see Marty Moore and Thornbury given the opportunity, Jean Kleyn also looking like he has done some serious work on his catch/pass/offload of late so would not discount his chances either, especially if it transpires than neither Baird or Ryan travel. If he has worked on his handling the way JVDF has on his carrying then he is worth another look, personally think he’s better than Treadwell. Back row is really interesting, Prendergast for me is really putting his hand up, Conan needs to kick on, he’s been a little bit underwhelming this season, POM has stopped fannying about on the tramlines and got back to doing what he does best, although that was probably under orders in fairness to him & Hodnett is emerging as a genuine option.
It would be great if finances allowed them to continue the process of involving developmental players and to bring a few along in case of emergency like Ahern, McCarthy, Wythcherly, Hodnett, Prendergast if not in directly, Penny or Kendellen. Get them in to the environment and dangle the carrot of RWC involvement to spur their progress, the marginal cost of taking a few more guys along wouldn’t be massive and would be an investment for the future.
Carbery playing with some of his old swagger of late, can see Ben Healy’s game time being quite limited in Munster’s next few games so not sure how much of an opportunity he will get to put himself in the shop window. On recent evidence Harry B is not the answer for now, both Ross B and Carty are playing better and for all the talk of Harry having a higher ceiling there for me there just has not really been enough evidence to date to justify his continued inclusion. Ross B and Carty are both very resilient and rarely injured and given the injury profile of both Sexton and Carbery (and Harry Byrne in fairness) they need a couple of guys like that in there who can ship the hits. The Kiwi’s will try to take Sexton out, by fair means or foul, so I’d go fully stacked with him at 10 for the first test and then give him the rest of the series off. Jackson is a boat that has sailed, toxic to go there from so many perspectives– fantastic player that he is - but can’t seem him playing for Ireland again.
Anyway a couple of poor sods are very likely to miss out through injury incurred between now and the end of the season. Kelleher doing the same shoulder not great for instance, hope that is not too serious
I wonder would Farrell be ballsy enough to go full strength for the first test and then send the elderly statesmen (Sexton Healy POM Earls) home and really look to develop over the other games. That’s what New Zealand do when they travel mid cycle so they cant really complain if a country does that when travelling there

Good post @TMC

[jimbobjoe]

Do Sky have the rights for this tour?

For the test matches anyway, I assume if the other two games get arranged they will show them also.

Thanks Neill

[riocard911]

33 is the RWC squad, for me this tour is about looking under every rock to make sure no viable option missed.
Personally think Frawley should travel, too good & versatile not to & think McCloskey worth another look too, a lot of what he does makes Hume look so good. If Jimmy O’Brien continues in his current form you could see him unseating one of the more established players or possibly Lowry, I know he’s nimble but you’d worry for him against some of the Islanders.
In the front five would like to see Marty Moore and Thornbury given the opportunity, Jean Kleyn also looking like he has done some serious work on his catch/pass/offload of late so would not discount his chances either, especially if it transpires than neither Baird or Ryan travel. If he has worked on his handling the way JVDF has on his carrying then he is worth another look, personally think he’s better than Treadwell. Back row is really interesting, Prendergast for me is really putting his hand up, Conan needs to kick on, he’s been a little bit underwhelming this season, POM has stopped fannying about on the tramlines and got back to doing what he does best, although that was probably under orders in fairness to him & Hodnett is emerging as a genuine option.
It would be great if finances allowed them to continue the process of involving developmental players and to bring a few along in case of emergency like Ahern, McCarthy, Wythcherly, Hodnett, Prendergast if not in directly, Penny or Kendellen. Get them in to the environment and dangle the carrot of RWC involvement to spur their progress, the marginal cost of taking a few more guys along wouldn’t be massive and would be an investment for the future.
Carbery playing with some of his old swagger of late, can see Ben Healy’s game time being quite limited in Munster’s next few games so not sure how much of an opportunity he will get to put himself in the shop window. On recent evidence Harry B is not the answer for now, both Ross B and Carty are playing better and for all the talk of Harry having a higher ceiling there for me there just has not really been enough evidence to date to justify his continued inclusion. Ross B and Carty are both very resilient and rarely injured and given the injury profile of both Sexton and Carbery (and Harry Byrne in fairness) they need a couple of guys like that in there who can ship the hits. The Kiwi’s will try to take Sexton out, by fair means or foul, so I’d go fully stacked with him at 10 for the first test and then give him the rest of the series off. Jackson is a boat that has sailed, toxic to go there from so many perspectives– fantastic player that he is - but can’t seem him playing for Ireland again.
Anyway a couple of poor sods are very likely to miss out through injury incurred between now and the end of the season. Kelleher doing the same shoulder not great for instance, hope that is not too serious
I wonder would Farrell be ballsy enough to go full strength for the first test and then send the elderly statesmen (Sexton Healy POM Earls) home and really look to develop over the other games. That’s what New Zealand do when they travel mid cycle so they cant really complain if a country does that when travelling there

Good post @TMC

+1

[lummix]

We should bring josh Wycherley and maybe even jack Boyle, Healy is at an age where it could all unravel in a short space of time and it's hard to see where our sub prop would come from if he does.

[dropkick]

We should bring josh Wycherley and maybe even jack Boyle, Healy is at an age where it could all unravel in a short space of time and it's hard to see where our sub prop would come from if he does.

It's a problem position alright. Josh Wycherley is still learning his trade in the scrums but he is very good in the loose. Better than Kilcoyne imo because he links up with other players. So it will depend on how Farrell and co see his trajectory over the next year. Kilcoynes injury certainly gives him the chance to stake a claim.


Kleyn was mentioned above and the scrummaging issues might play a part in his possible selection. I think though that he just lacks a bit of class in the loose. Treadwell doesn't inspire me either if I'm being honest. I'm not sure about Thornbury as I have not seen much of him for Connacht. Personally I'd like to see Ahern and McCarthy go. They look like stand out talents already so it's a no brainer imo.


Likewise I think Kendellen looks a stand out talent even in a position like the backrow where we have plenty of depth. He's still technically an academy player and performing to such a high level. Arguments could be made for many players. Penny, Hodnett, Prendergast to name 3.


I'm not sold on Carty either. For an international I think he is average but none of the contenders are performing that well. Ben Healy hadn't taken his chance. Harry B hasn't either on the rare occasion he is fit. At least Carbery is coming back into form.


I can see Nathan Doak being selected. Gibson Park, Murray, Casey and Doak is a solid set of scrum halves and each offers something different. One think I don't like about Doak is his size. He is tall which generally means slower! But I think he deserves a shot.


Centers pick themselves. If they're bringing a 5th then it could be Frawley or McCloskey. Frawley has the advantage of positional flexibility but McCloskey is playing very well. They might both be picked. I've a feeling Jamie Osborne is earmarked for after the world cup.


Back 3 will be the usual suspects you'd think. If you're going to pick a bolter many would say Jimmy O'Brien but I wouldn't be surprised to see Tommy there.


I probably forgot a few names.

[ronk]

We should bring josh Wycherley and maybe even jack Boyle, Healy is at an age where it could all unravel in a short space of time and it's hard to see where our sub prop would come from if he does.

Or just give them a full preseason and a chance to play at the start of the season.

[Long time lurker]

Loughman has been playing well. He's surprised me as I didn't think he had any chance of pushing on to being a regular player. He could be worth a look!
Kendellen and Penny should be included at least against the Maori. I would include Niall Murray and Ross Molony. I think they've been the most consistent 2nd rows I've seen this year.
I would leave Healy; Murray. and POM at home. We know their capabilities and strengths.
I'd go loose head, Porter, Wycherly, Loughman and Byrne
Hooker; Kelleher, Sheehan, Herring and Stewart.
Tight head. Furlong, Marty Moore, O'Toole and Bealham
2nd row. Beirne. Ryan, Molony, Henderson, Murray and Ahern. Back row. Conan, Doris, Penny, Kendellen, Timoney, VDF, Coombes. Prendergast
Scrum halfs. JGP, Casey, Blade. DOAK
Out half, Sexton, Carberry, RB and Healy
Centers, Ringrose, Henshaw. Aki, Frawley and Hume
Back 3, Keenan, Hanson, Lowe, Larmour, JOB, Earls, and McIlroy.

[sunshiner1]

by dropkick

Kleyn was mentioned above and the scrummaging issues might play a part in his possible selection. I think though that he just lacks a bit of class in the loose. Treadwell doesn't inspire me either if I'm being honest. I'm not sure about Thornbury as I have not seen much of him for Connacht. Personally I'd like to see Ahern and McCarthy go. They look like stand out talents already so it's a no brainer imo.


Likewise I think Kendellen looks a stand out talent even in a position like the backrow where we have plenty of depth. He's still technically an academy player and performing to such a high level. Arguments could be made for many players. Penny, Hodnett, Prendergast to name 3.

Thornbury at 6 '9 is someone who should be looked at. I definitely think we need to blood one or two second rows on this tour be they Thornbury, Murray, Ahern, McCarthy or Molony.

Kendellen is impressive and I would bring him along as a development player to soak in the atmosphere and get some training.

BTW does anyone remember a young Munster no. 8 from a season or two ago in the U20's I think the name was Sullivan. Any idea what happened to him? Did Kendellen just leap-frog him?

[dropkick]

by dropkick

Kleyn was mentioned above and the scrummaging issues might play a part in his possible selection. I think though that he just lacks a bit of class in the loose. Treadwell doesn't inspire me either if I'm being honest. I'm not sure about Thornbury as I have not seen much of him for Connacht. Personally I'd like to see Ahern and McCarthy go. They look like stand out talents already so it's a no brainer imo.


Likewise I think Kendellen looks a stand out talent even in a position like the backrow where we have plenty of depth. He's still technically an academy player and performing to such a high level. Arguments could be made for many players. Penny, Hodnett, Prendergast to name 3.

Thornbury at 6 '9 is someone who should be looked at. I definitely think we need to blood one or two second rows on this tour be they Thornbury, Murray, Ahern, McCarthy or Molony.

Kendellen is impressive and I would bring him along as a development player to soak in the atmosphere and get some training.

BTW does anyone remember a young Munster no. 8 from a season or two ago in the U20's I think the name was Sullivan. Any idea what happened to him? Did Kendellen just leap-frog him?

Jack O'Sullivan. He was one in Doris' year but they never played together due to injury. He played a few weeks back and played well but unfortunately for him picked up another injury just as the opportunities were coming.

[sunshiner1]

by dropkick


Jack O'Sullivan. He was one in Doris' year but they never played together due to injury. He played a few weeks back and played well but unfortunately for him picked up another injury just as the opportunities were coming.

Thanks for that. Really impressed with the number 8's coming out of Munster. First Coombes, then Kendellan, O'Sullivan in the academy and the two younger lads in the sub-academy coming through.

[TMC]

Ian Costello getting all the credit in the meeja for player development but he is only back there a year. All the hard work done over the past few years in the Munster Academy is really starting to bear fruit. The standard of player coming through looks significantly higher; they have really turned the academy around and have as good a young crop now as anyone else in fairness. Bandon GS / Regis Sonnes made a few other schools down there pull up their socks and Munster are now benefiting. Acid test will be introducing them to the senior squad which is where Munster have fallen down over the past 7/8 years, they've tended to/been allowed to opt for the easy buy in rather than the home developed. The timing of young/academy player introduction is one area where we all know Cullen/Lancaster have excelled - posting before the Stormers game so hopefully not tempting fate.

Looking at the young talent in the 4 provinces the days of 20 Leinster players in an Irish 23 are numbered & that’s not a bad thing in terms of the game as a whole, but the funding implications for Leinster will need to be managed.

[Ruckedtobits]

Loughman has been playing well. He's surprised me as I didn't think he had any chance of pushing on to being a regular player. He could be worth a look!
Kendellen and Penny should be included at least against the Maori. I would include Niall Murray and Ross Molony. I think they've been the most consistent 2nd rows I've seen this year.
I would leave Healy; Murray. and POM at home. We know their capabilities and strengths.
I'd go loose head, Porter, Wycherly, Loughman and Byrne
Hooker; Kelleher, Sheehan, Herring and Stewart.
Tight head. Furlong, Marty Moore, O'Toole and Bealham
2nd row. Beirne. Ryan, Molony, Henderson, Murray and Ahern. Back row. Conan, Doris, Penny, Kendellen, Timoney, VDF, Coombes. Prendergast
Scrum halfs. JGP, Casey, Blade. DOAK
Out half, Sexton, Carberry, RB and Healy
Centers, Ringrose, Henshaw. Aki, Frawley and Hume
Back 3, Keenan, Hanson, Lowe, Larmour, JOB, Earls, and McIlroy.

I count 48 players in that list. Think that's too many to usefully travel & train & get game time. Strong disagreement with leaving RWC23 Squad members at home. This is primarily a preparation for that Tournament and I believe Farrell will want to see all the real options together and get a sense of the chemistry between all the candidates.

[dropkick]

Ian Costello getting all the credit in the meeja for player development but he is only back there a year. All the hard work done over the past few years in the Munster Academy is really starting to bear fruit. The standard of player coming through looks significantly higher; they have really turned the academy around and have as good a young crop now as anyone else in fairness. Bandon GS / Regis Sonnes made a few other schools down there pull up their socks and Munster are now benefiting. Acid test will be introducing them to the senior squad which is where Munster have fallen down over the past 7/8 years, they've tended to/been allowed to opt for the easy buy in rather than the home developed. The timing of young/academy player introduction is one area where we all know Cullen/Lancaster have excelled - posting before the Stormers game so hopefully not tempting fate.

Looking at the young talent in the 4 provinces the days of 20 Leinster players in an Irish 23 are numbered & that’s not a bad thing in terms of the game as a whole, but the funding implications for Leinster will need to be managed.

I don't think Costello is getting credit for the development but it's more for the changes he's making now. I think there was 1 limerick player in the last 3 ireland U20 squads. That's how far Limerick rugby has fallen. Might explain why Peter Malone was replaced.


On a recent article Costello was talking about how munster underage players are behind the other provinces in terms of fitness or conditioning. Just 1 starter in the recent U20 side.


I think Ulster look like they've turned a corner definitely. Munster are producing players alright and no doubt the academy/underage structures are better than before but as I've said, it could be better. At least the freakish players from around rural munster are being spotted.

[hugonaut]

by dropkick


Jack O'Sullivan. He was one in Doris' year but they never played together due to injury. He played a few weeks back and played well but unfortunately for him picked up another injury just as the opportunities were coming.

Thanks for that. Really impressed with the number 8's coming out of Munster. First Coombes, then Kendellan, O'Sullivan in the academy and the two younger lads in the sub-academy coming through.

Munster schools and clubs tend to put their best backrow at No8, simple as that. It means they get the ball in their hands a lot.

At agegrade level, O'Mahony was a No8 [2009 U20s], so was O'Donoghue [2014 U20s], so was Kelvin Browne [2016 U20s], Coombes [at least one game as a No8 for the 2017 U20s, although he also played No4 and No6], so was O'Sullivan [2018 U20s], so was Hodnett [2019 U20s], so was Kendellen [2021 U20s], so was Okeke [also one game at No8 for the 2021 U20s].

It's quite difficult to think of a Irish U20 backrow from Munster who didn't play No8, i.e. an openside or blindside, at agegrade level. I'll turn this one over to Mildly/Cormac/Xanthippe ...

[leinsterforever]

Jack Daly?