Tour to NZ 2022

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Ruckedtobits
Shane Jennings
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Probably the lowest profile member of the Irish Tour Party who appeared during each Test Match, his role is uncertain outside the close-knit Squad and coaching group. His CV makes fascinating reading and he has certainly got plenty of stars in his copybook along the way. Given the various elements of Improvement that the addition of each Coach has contributed to over the past two seasons, it is interesting to speculate just where and how Peter Wilkins adds to the sum of the parts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_W ... ion_coach)

Is his key role defensive? Is his contribution on the selection of attacking options? Is his most valuable attribute on how Ireland link their defensive expertise to transition to attack? Connacht has looked a very capable attacking team over the past two seasons, but their defence has let them down in many key games. Has anybody figured out exactly what role Peter Wilkins has had during this extraordinary period of success?
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blockhead
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by blockhead »

Ruckedtobits wrote: July 29th, 2022, 1:29 pm 6 days after we beat NZ in a Test Series in NZ and the subject is already dropping deep in the "Active Topic" list. Still the greatest rugby achievement for an Irish team.
A bit late meself to the party, but what an outstanding achievement.
Easily the greatest in our rugby history, a series win in New Zealand of all places.
And we were good for it, that's the best part, we were the better team.
Faz has taken us to new heights, only a year ago he was in the "last chance saloon" according to some.
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dropkick
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by dropkick »

What I liked best about the tour was when NZ closed the gap and things seemed inevitable Ireland did not fold. This Ireland side have done serious work on the mental skills side of things. Gary Keegan is doing a very good job there. Farrell is naturally good at that stuff too and knows how to motivate players.
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hugonaut
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by hugonaut »

dropkick wrote: July 31st, 2022, 7:12 pm What I liked best about the tour was when NZ closed the gap and things seemed inevitable Ireland did not fold. This Ireland side have done serious work on the mental skills side of things. Gary Keegan is doing a very good job there. Farrell is naturally good at that stuff too and knows how to motivate players.
It is great news that Farrell has been re-contracted until 2025.

There's no doubt that there was interest in him from other organisations, particularly the RFU – he would have been a priority target for them. This is a good result from the IRFU and Nucifora in particular. Well done to those involved.

I think it's worth imagining the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would have occurred had it been announced that he was off to England to fully appreciate the significance of him renewing!
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dropkick
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by dropkick »

hugonaut wrote: August 1st, 2022, 3:52 pm
dropkick wrote: July 31st, 2022, 7:12 pm What I liked best about the tour was when NZ closed the gap and things seemed inevitable Ireland did not fold. This Ireland side have done serious work on the mental skills side of things. Gary Keegan is doing a very good job there. Farrell is naturally good at that stuff too and knows how to motivate players.
It is great news that Farrell has been re-contracted until 2025.

There's no doubt that there was interest in him from other organisations, particularly the RFU – he would have been a priority target for them. This is a good result from the IRFU and Nucifora in particular. Well done to those involved.

I think it's worth imagining the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would have occurred had it been announced that he was off to England to fully appreciate the significance of him renewing!
Indeed. Usually it takes a person to leave for people to fully appreciate that person.


I think he would have been mad to go back to the England job. He's building a good thing here.
riocard911
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by riocard911 »

The one person, who's taken publicly a back seat, hasn't gotten a huge amount of mention, but who's fingerprints, it seems to me, are all over the uptick in Irish fortunes is Paulie; think, for example, line outs, from the Earls try vs England last year's 6 Nations thru to the mauled over tries which did such damage vs NZ.
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hugonaut
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by hugonaut »

riocard911 wrote: August 1st, 2022, 11:06 pm The one person, who's taken publicly a back seat, hasn't gotten a huge amount of mention, but who's fingerprints, it seems to me, are all over the uptick in Irish fortunes is Paulie; think, for example, line outs, from the Earls try vs England last year's 6 Nations thru to the mauled over tries which did such damage vs NZ.
I disagree, I think O'Connell gets mentioned an awful lot.

He certainly doesn't go looking for it: everything about the way he has carried himself throughout his career suggests that he is not the sort of person that looks for external acclamation. But compared to Catt or Easterby, he gets referred to time after time.

He has done a very good job, in my opinion, and he is a totemic figure in Irish rugby. That's a big part of the reason he gets brought up. There's also a very strong Munster lobby in the rugby media who are always looking for Munster angles in writing about Irish games.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by riocard911 »

hugonaut wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 6:50 am
riocard911 wrote: August 1st, 2022, 11:06 pm The one person, who's taken publicly a back seat, hasn't gotten a huge amount of mention, but who's fingerprints, it seems to me, are all over the uptick in Irish fortunes is Paulie; think, for example, line outs, from the Earls try vs England last year's 6 Nations thru to the mauled over tries which did such damage vs NZ.
I disagree, I think O'Connell gets mentioned an awful lot.

He certainly doesn't go looking for it: everything about the way he has carried himself throughout his career suggests that he is not the sort of person that looks for external acclamation. But compared to Catt or Easterby, he gets referred to time after time.

He has done a very good job, in my opinion, and he is a totemic figure in Irish rugby. That's a big part of the reason he gets brought up. There's also a very strong Munster lobby in the rugby media who are always looking for Munster angles in writing about Irish games.
Of course, HN, all the points you make are valid. But in that context, I would have thought more of a big deal would have been made of the Paulie angle. Maybe I just missed stuff, that came to your attention.
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dropkick
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by dropkick »

It's a very good coaching team. Mike Catt doesn't get enough mentions in my opinion. The general consensus is Ireland are copying Leinster but if that was the case it wouldn't have taken as long for the attack to click.
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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

There was a marked improvement in all of the set piece and ruck play after the first test. I remember AF stating he was going to ask for ‘clarification’ from world rugby on some of the interpretations.

It can’t be accidental that in the second and third tests that New Zealand were pinged mercilessly for rucking beyond the tackle area - as in Sam Cane pinged for tackling off the ball and B Barrett pinged for clearing beyond the tackle area. Both of these penalties were pretty pivotal, if I remember correctly, and our ruck was much cleaner and therefore faster as a result. That for me was the edge that allowed our win.

I’m not going to downplay individual coaching contributions, but for me the bigger picture was that after the ‘clarifications’ were received from World Rugby we were able to execute our game plan effectively and it became a true contest, which we won.
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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

dropkick wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 10:31 am It's a very good coaching team. Mike Catt doesn't get enough mentions in my opinion. The general consensus is Ireland are copying Leinster but if that was the case it wouldn't have taken as long for the attack to click.
I don’t think Ireland are copying the Leinster game plan, but there are definitely similarities in some of the gameplay for example the blind pull back pass to a midfielder coming at pace, the pod setup seems similar enough too
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jezzer
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by jezzer »

riocard911 wrote: August 1st, 2022, 11:06 pm The one person, who's taken publicly a back seat, hasn't gotten a huge amount of mention, but who's fingerprints, it seems to me, are all over the uptick in Irish fortunes is Paulie; think, for example, line outs, from the Earls try vs England last year's 6 Nations thru to the mauled over tries which did such damage vs NZ.
Tbh, i don't think i could agree less. Paule is referenced ad nauseam, which btw is absolutely merited.The guy who has done a phenomenal job and never even gets name checked when the coaches are mentioned/listed is Easterby. Our defence this year has been the keystone for our wins. If you think back through the entire calendar year from July21 to June22 i would - going from my shaky memory - say that at least 75% of the tries scored against have been individuals scoring opportunistic tries. They still count and I'm sure in their own way they're all preventable but we just don't leak any phase play or redzone tries where the oppo pressures us and probes for an overload. Not in any volume.

Easterby has to take a massive amount of credit for that. And it's not like he was a bad forwards coach before Paulie came in. Very talented guy.
Last edited by jezzer on August 2nd, 2022, 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jezzer
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by jezzer »

Double
leinsterforever
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by leinsterforever »

Oldschoolsocks wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 10:34 am
dropkick wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 10:31 am It's a very good coaching team. Mike Catt doesn't get enough mentions in my opinion. The general consensus is Ireland are copying Leinster but if that was the case it wouldn't have taken as long for the attack to click.
I don’t think Ireland are copying the Leinster game plan, but there are definitely similarities in some of the gameplay for example the blind pull back pass to a midfielder coming at pace, the pod setup seems similar enough too
Most teams would use pods like that though, no? It's just how effectively the players do it to put doubt in defenders' minds that's the difference.
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MylesNaGapoleen
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

jezzer wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 12:57 pm
riocard911 wrote: August 1st, 2022, 11:06 pm The one person, who's taken publicly a back seat, hasn't gotten a huge amount of mention, but who's fingerprints, it seems to me, are all over the uptick in Irish fortunes is Paulie; think, for example, line outs, from the Earls try vs England last year's 6 Nations thru to the mauled over tries which did such damage vs NZ.
Tbh, i don't think i could agree less. Paule is referenced ad nauseam, which btw is absolutely merited.The guy who has done a phenomenal job and never even gets name checked when the coaches are mentioned/listed is Easterby. Our defence this year has been the keystone for our wins. If you think back through the entire calendar year from July21 to June22 i would - going from my shaky memory - say that at least 75% of the tries scored against have been individuals scoring opportunistic tries. They still count and I'm sure in their own way they're all preventable but we just don't leak any phase play or redzone tries where the oppo pressures us and probes for an overload. Not in any volume.

Easterby has to take a massive amount of credit for that. And it's not like he was a bad forwards coach before Paulie came in. Very talented guy.
agree about the irish defence but the same could be said for leinster. we are a really tough defence to break down.

POC coming in is bound to have had a boost to the Irish setup, he is an inspirational leader.

There is, without doubt for me, a lancaster/ leinster sheen to a lot of Irelands attack moves that is accentuated or underlined when sexton is taken off the pitch. The second quarter of the first test in NZ is, perhaps, a good example. Catt has obviously added value to that with Ireland but a lot is unmistakably leinster-esque. No shame in that. Ireland were very munster-esque 2003-2010. No shame in that either. It's bound to happen when there are only 4 provincial sides.

If we were to pick one person out from the Irish coaching team, for me it would be farrell for having the cojones, when some were calling for his head, to stick to the plan and giving the players the framework & freedom to play exciting, heads-up, fast flowing, winning rugby.
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Flash Gordon
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Flash Gordon »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 1:19 pm
jezzer wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 12:57 pm
riocard911 wrote: August 1st, 2022, 11:06 pm The one person, who's taken publicly a back seat, hasn't gotten a huge amount of mention, but who's fingerprints, it seems to me, are all over the uptick in Irish fortunes is Paulie; think, for example, line outs, from the Earls try vs England last year's 6 Nations thru to the mauled over tries which did such damage vs NZ.
Tbh, i don't think i could agree less. Paule is referenced ad nauseam, which btw is absolutely merited.The guy who has done a phenomenal job and never even gets name checked when the coaches are mentioned/listed is Easterby. Our defence this year has been the keystone for our wins. If you think back through the entire calendar year from July21 to June22 i would - going from my shaky memory - say that at least 75% of the tries scored against have been individuals scoring opportunistic tries. They still count and I'm sure in their own way they're all preventable but we just don't leak any phase play or redzone tries where the oppo pressures us and probes for an overload. Not in any volume.

Easterby has to take a massive amount of credit for that. And it's not like he was a bad forwards coach before Paulie came in. Very talented guy.
agree about the irish defence but the same could be said for leinster. we are a really tough defence to break down.

POC coming in is bound to have had a boost to the Irish setup, he is an inspirational leader.

There is, without doubt for me, a lancaster/ leinster sheen to a lot of Irelands attack moves that is accentuated or underlined when sexton is taken off the pitch. The second quarter of the first test in NZ is, perhaps, a good example. Catt has obviously added value to that with Ireland but a lot is unmistakably leinster-esque. No shame in that. Ireland were very munster-esque 2003-2010. No shame in that either. It's bound to happen when there are only 4 provincial sides.

If we were to pick one person out from the Irish coaching team, for me it would be farrell for having the cojones, when some were calling for his head, to stick to the plan and giving the players the framework & freedom to play exciting, heads-up, fast flowing, winning rugby.
I think Catt is working with what he has to work with a team of very talented and skilled rugby players who are used to moving the ball. There is Leinster influence there of course but guys like Bundee and Hansen have come in and played the system perfectly. Defensively, one of the reasons Leinster are very good defensively is line speed and Henshaw and Ringrose have certainly brought that (as have Bundee and Earls)

Easterby's influence, as Jezzer says, has been huge and he doesn't get the credit he deserves. POC's lineout work is a difference maker, Leinster have a very average line out and he's moved that on no question. All the inspiration stuff I buy less, the Irish media have an obsession with inspiration which they think is inextricably intertwined with Munster, a team that haven't won anything in years. Sure culture matters but the reality of top level rugby is that it's systemized and practiced and that's what wins games generally. We lost the first test because we executed our game plan poorly and won the next 2 because we executed well - difference was technical not motivational in my view.
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leinsterforever
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by leinsterforever »

My opinion would be that Leinster are lacking a few elements Ireland have when it comes to being clinical against top teams. What's the stat? - 1 try scored and 5 conceded in the three Heineken Cup Finals under this coaching ticket.

One thing Ireland have on the defensive side of things that Leinster don't is an ability to win turnovers on the deck. That's a very limited part of Leinster's game.

Easterby is, I think, just implementing Farrell's defensive system. Farrell has more on his plate now that he's head coach, so he's delegating responsibility for the defence to someone else.
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Flash Gordon
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Flash Gordon »

leinsterforever wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 2:36 pm My opinion would be that Leinster are lacking a few elements Ireland have when it comes to being clinical against top teams. What's the stat? - 1 try scored and 5 conceded in the three Heineken Cup Finals under this coaching ticket.

One thing Ireland have on the defensive side of things that Leinster don't is an ability to win turnovers on the deck. That's a very limited part of Leinster's game.

Easterby is, I think, just implementing Farrell's defensive system. Farrell has more on his plate now that he's head coach, so he's delegating responsibility for the defence to someone else.
I'd agree with you on turnovers - we were 12th in the URC in this area. It also showed in the last 10 minutes of the Champions cup final. We defended magnificently but didn't get near a turnover.
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ronk
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

Oldschoolsocks wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 10:34 am
dropkick wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 10:31 am It's a very good coaching team. Mike Catt doesn't get enough mentions in my opinion. The general consensus is Ireland are copying Leinster but if that was the case it wouldn't have taken as long for the attack to click.
I don’t think Ireland are copying the Leinster game plan, but there are definitely similarities in some of the gameplay for example the blind pull back pass to a midfielder coming at pace, the pod setup seems similar enough too
Who's copying who is a bit like debating whether chickens or eggs came first.

So many players, together for so much time with coaches from the same coaching tree, directly communicating. They're evolving together.

An example of an Ireland-Leinster innovation was selecting JGL ahead of McGrath. It happened for a while, then he was ahead for Leinster too. But the same hasn't happen with the Byrne's at outhalf. Lowe's defence was talked about more for Ireland but it was fixed at Leinster.
wixfjord
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by wixfjord »

leinsterforever wrote: August 2nd, 2022, 2:36 pm My opinion would be that Leinster are lacking a few elements Ireland have when it comes to being clinical against top teams. What's the stat? - 1 try scored and 5 conceded in the three Heineken Cup Finals under this coaching ticket.

One thing Ireland have on the defensive side of things that Leinster don't is an ability to win turnovers on the deck. That's a very limited part of Leinster's game.

Easterby is, I think, just implementing Farrell's defensive system. Farrell has more on his plate now that he's head coach, so he's delegating responsibility for the defence to someone else.
Yep that's a great point.

Not sure whether we (as in Leinster) purposefully choose not to go for them (either tactically or to reduce contact injuries), or whether we don't have the players for it, but it's been a missing part of our game since the days of Leavy/SOB.

Ireland has POM & Beirne, but we don't have that threat in blue at all.

It's an area I'd hope Leo/Stu might be looking at in the off season.

Does anyone have a list of the players who make most turnovers for us? Would imagine it's split between guys like Porter, Doris, Kelleher/Sheehan and VDF, but we don't have a really clear 'poacher'.
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