Tour to NZ 2022

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ronk
Cian Healy
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

paddyor wrote: July 21st, 2022, 8:59 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Irel ... _Australia

33 man squad to Oz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugb ... ds#Ireland

31 to Japan.

3 changes, Carty for Byrne

Only 4 locks. Kleyn for Roux/Toner

Kilcoyne for McGrath

So that's 90% of the squad from the previous Oz tour. 2 more spots this time which you'd imagine will go to sh and prop.Was there a rule you had to have 4 hookers last time?
Cronin got injured and was replaced by Herring.
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jezzer
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by jezzer »

Ruckedtobits wrote: July 21st, 2022, 7:19 pm I'm posting partially because I find it extraordinary that our success against NZ, less than a week ago, has slipped so far down the 'Active' list so quickly, but also because, with at least 10 internationals between now and the announcement of the RWC23 Squad, I find it almost inconceivable that Faz won't uncover an unexpected gem before then;

# Stockdale returns with a hugely educated left boot to challenge Lowe;
# Balacoune starts new season with a try a match by the end of October;
# Boyle, coming on as 10th min sub for Leinster, gives Fagerson flying lessons in URC game;
# Gavin Thornbury, after five starring performances for Connacht, selected for Autumn games;
# Crowley sparks Munster backline to five tries in URC game....

....Continue ad infinitum.....
Yeah, it's a shame the board has quietened down so quickly. I'm still buzzing!!!!

There's definitely a sense that Faz and team are looking for "a particular set of skills", some of which are between the ears. It seems there's a big mental makeup component to who gets picked and who doesn't. It makes for maybe a more subjective selection process, but you could hardly argue that it's not working.

It also makes it much more likely that a bolter gets in, a la Hansen. I don't think Faz cares too much from where and how the talent arrives, so long as it's available.

Some guys though, will get tried and discarded pretty quick smart. We've already had the big halfback cull, a few locks have been set adrift (and i think Baird could be looking over his shoulder), same in the back row.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by wixfjord »

Does Stockdale fit the mould of what Faz seems to be looking for in wingers?

He’s a cracking classic winger, but doesn’t have nearly the same all court game that Hansen or Lowe so.
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jezzer
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by jezzer »

wixfjord wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 8:37 am Does Stockdale fit the mould of what Faz seems to be looking for in wingers?

He’s a cracking classic winger, but doesn’t have nearly the same all court game that Hansen or Lowe so.
Faz would obviously know him well but who's to know what today's Stockdale is like? He could be miles ahead of where he was or could have lost some athleticism (or both). In terms of the skills package we last saw, I'd say he right up Andy's alley. But mentally? Not sure.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Dave Cahill »

wixfjord wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 8:37 am Does Stockdale fit the mould of what Faz seems to be looking for in wingers?

He’s a cracking classic winger, but doesn’t have nearly the same all court game that Hansen or Lowe so.
I'd say thats the challenge for him this season, to show he can play that way - he may well have that game but hes never had to display it. I think that one of the reasons why he shifted to 15 that time was to demonstrate he could do that kind of thing, unfortunately for him the move coincided with injury and a resulting loss in form so we never really got to see it
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by wixfjord »

jezzer wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 8:52 am
wixfjord wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 8:37 am Does Stockdale fit the mould of what Faz seems to be looking for in wingers?

He’s a cracking classic winger, but doesn’t have nearly the same all court game that Hansen or Lowe so.
Faz would obviously know him well but who's to know what today's Stockdale is like? He could be miles ahead of where he was or could have lost some athleticism (or both). In terms of the skills package we last saw, I'd say he right up Andy's alley. But mentally? Not sure.

I don’t think he would be the right fit at all given the skills we’ve seen from Stockdale. Fax has talked about wanting his wingers to come infield and be ‘messy’. Hansen, Lowe fit that very well. Stockdale isn’t a guy who comes in field and playmakes.

He’ll need to add to his game.
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Flash Gordon
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Flash Gordon »

Ruckedtobits wrote: July 21st, 2022, 7:19 pm I'm posting partially because I find it extraordinary that our success against NZ, less than a week ago, has slipped so far down the 'Active' list so quickly, but also because, with at least 10 internationals between now and the announcement of the RWC23 Squad, I find it almost inconceivable that Faz won't uncover an unexpected gem before then;

# Stockdale returns with a hugely educated left boot to challenge Lowe;
# Balacoune starts new season with a try a match by the end of October;
# Boyle, coming on as 10th min sub for Leinster, gives Fagerson flying lessons in URC game;
# Gavin Thornbury, after five starring performances for Connacht, selected for Autumn games;
# Crowley sparks Munster backline to five tries in URC game....

....Continue ad infinitum.....
Yeah for sure on all of those, I really like Thornbury in particular. There are others of course Larmour was the greatest thing to hit Irish rugby in 2018 and has been unlucky with injury - he scored pretty much a try a game when he played this season. Coombes and Casey at Munster, Doak at Ulster plus a few of ours - McCarthy, Tommy O'Brien, Baird, Connors fit and the real game changer, Frawley at 10.

Lots more potential. The question is how Faz is going to use the 6 Nations. For Ireland, the 6 Nations is the thing that pays for everything we have but from a player development point of view New Zealand asked a few questions but I'm not sure it provided a lot of answers.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by FLIP »

Going back to the Plan A Plan B discussion - SquidgeRugby makes a point in his most recent video that the tactic that NZ made so well in the first test to pull us apart (Aaron Smith running backline plays from 9) was worked out and counteracted in a week by Ireland. He also makes the point that our play is often fluid and adaptable enough that it's less likely to stagnate.
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wixfjord
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by wixfjord »

Connors is one who has not been talked about but could walk into a RWC squad if he gets back to the level he was.

Hopefully the injury doesn’t take from his athleticism.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Flash Gordon »

FLIP wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 10:10 am Going back to the Plan A Plan B discussion - SquidgeRugby makes a point in his most recent video that the tactic that NZ made so well in the first test to pull us apart (Aaron Smith running backline plays from 9) was worked out and counteracted in a week by Ireland. He also makes the point that our play is often fluid and adaptable enough that it's less likely to stagnate.
Interesting stuff. I think we were also sloppy in the way we executed. There's taking calculated risks and then there's recklessness, we veered towards the latter at times.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by jezzer »

FLIP wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 10:10 am Going back to the Plan A Plan B discussion - SquidgeRugby makes a point in his most recent video that the tactic that NZ made so well in the first test to pull us apart (Aaron Smith running backline plays from 9) was worked out and counteracted in a week by Ireland. He also makes the point that our play is often fluid and adaptable enough that it's less likely to stagnate.
In the world cup, if you don't figure that stuff out in-game it can be too late. You're already going home.

This is the first team i feel really can do that. And also vary up their game when they see the oppo has figured out their attack shape a bit.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by jezzer »

wixfjord wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 9:31 am
jezzer wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 8:52 am
wixfjord wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 8:37 am Does Stockdale fit the mould of what Faz seems to be looking for in wingers?

He’s a cracking classic winger, but doesn’t have nearly the same all court game that Hansen or Lowe so.
Faz would obviously know him well but who's to know what today's Stockdale is like? He could be miles ahead of where he was or could have lost some athleticism (or both). In terms of the skills package we last saw, I'd say he right up Andy's alley. But mentally? Not sure.

I don’t think he would be the right fit at all given the skills we’ve seen from Stockdale. Fax has talked about wanting his wingers to come infield and be ‘messy’. Hansen, Lowe fit that very well. Stockdale isn’t a guy who comes in field and playmakes.

He’ll need to add to his game.
He also had those concentration lapses that i think Faz hates. He'll have to have ironed those out if he wants to get back in.
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the spoofer
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by the spoofer »

I’m delighted for Tadhg Beirne and Peter O’Mahony but the over the best players in tour were Sexton and VDF. It seems to have dropped out of the conversation that there was 11 starters from Leinster in the team that beat NZ
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

the spoofer wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 5:23 pm I’m delighted for Tadhg Beirne and Peter O’Mahony but the over the best players in tour were Sexton and VDF. It seems to have dropped out of the conversation that there was 11 starters from Leinster in the team that beat NZ
Probably for the better not to emphasise provincial rivalry.

Anyway the situation isn't new and isn't likely to change much before the RWC. 2 starters were developed at other provinces: POM and Henshaw. That's the long term concern, but they are good players at the other provinces in some positions, just not as the level of the Leinster equivalents.

5 players were already on the international track when they came to Ireland: Beirne, PGG, Aki, Lowe, Hansen.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

ronk wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 5:42 pm
the spoofer wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 5:23 pm I’m delighted for Tadhg Beirne and Peter O’Mahony but the over the best players in tour were Sexton and VDF. It seems to have dropped out of the conversation that there was 11 starters from Leinster in the team that beat NZ
Probably for the better not to emphasise provincial rivalry.

Anyway the situation isn't new and isn't likely to change much before the RWC. 2 starters were developed at other provinces: POM and Henshaw. That's the long term concern, but they are good players at the other provinces in some positions, just not as the level of the Leinster equivalents.

5 players were already on the international track when they came to Ireland: Beirne, PGG, Aki, Lowe, Hansen.
do we think mcdonald (who just signed for ulster) fits the same international track? Or do we think he can move to 10? Ulster already have 2 great SHs. https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 55035.html
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by dropkick »

ronk wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 5:42 pm
the spoofer wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 5:23 pm I’m delighted for Tadhg Beirne and Peter O’Mahony but the over the best players in tour were Sexton and VDF. It seems to have dropped out of the conversation that there was 11 starters from Leinster in the team that beat NZ
Probably for the better not to emphasise provincial rivalry.

Anyway the situation isn't new and isn't likely to change much before the RWC. 2 starters were developed at other provinces: POM and Henshaw. That's the long term concern, but they are good players at the other provinces in some positions, just not as the level of the Leinster equivalents.

5 players were already on the international track when they came to Ireland: Beirne, PGG, Aki, Lowe, Hansen.

Yeah, it's only recently Munster and Ulster have gotten their academies sorted after their previous shambles. Recently since players have started to come through I should say. Munster are still a bit behind but by all accounts Costello is doing a good job getting everyone singing off the same hymn sheet. Sorting Limerick out will be a big step in the right direction.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Ruckedtobits »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 6:13 pm
ronk wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 5:42 pm
the spoofer wrote: July 23rd, 2022, 5:23 pm I’m delighted for Tadhg Beirne and Peter O’Mahony but the over the best players in tour were Sexton and VDF. It seems to have dropped out of the conversation that there was 11 starters from Leinster in the team that beat NZ
Probably for the better not to emphasise provincial rivalry.

Anyway the situation isn't new and isn't likely to change much before the RWC. 2 starters were developed at other provinces: POM and Henshaw. That's the long term concern, but they are good players at the other provinces in some positions, just not as the level of the Leinster equivalents.

5 players were already on the international track when they came to Ireland: Beirne, PGG, Aki, Lowe, Hansen.
do we think mcdonald (who just signed for ulster) fits the same international track? Or do we think he can move to 10? Ulster already have 2 great SHs. https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 55035.html
He is quite simply a punt by McFarland. He hasn't yet played two full games of Provincial or Super Rugby. He's talented, Irish and young. But experience isn't on his CV, nor is any particular success. When Shanahan has been your 3rd SH, his size is always the subject of discussion. If you can get hold of a guy who passes quickly, left & right, and is a decent tackler, it's worth a punt. Friend has certainly had a couple that have worked, so why not McFarland.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

Shanahan has a 2 year deal which makes a punt strange from a planning perspective. Ulster will have 4 scrumhalves (2 more academy) with no immediate likelihood of international minutes. There weren't really any other good options for other provinces so it would make sense as a Nucifora hire.

Western Force have a kicker at 9 and he's been taking over when he comes on. Probably relevant for Ulster.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by paddyor »

ronk wrote: July 24th, 2022, 12:13 am Shanahan has a 2 year deal which makes a punt strange from a planning perspective. Ulster will have 4 scrumhalves (2 more academy) with no immediate likelihood of international minutes. There weren't really any other good options for other provinces so it would make sense as a Nucifora hire.

Western Force have a kicker at 9 and he's been taking over when he comes on. Probably relevant for Ulster.
Cooney gone at end of season though.
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ronk
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

Dave Cahill wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 8:54 am
wixfjord wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 8:37 am Does Stockdale fit the mould of what Faz seems to be looking for in wingers?

He’s a cracking classic winger, but doesn’t have nearly the same all court game that Hansen or Lowe so.
I'd say thats the challenge for him this season, to show he can play that way - he may well have that game but hes never had to display it. I think that one of the reasons why he shifted to 15 that time was to demonstrate he could do that kind of thing, unfortunately for him the move coincided with injury and a resulting loss in form so we never really got to see it
And the 15 jersey getting locked down in Ireland.

If Stockdale hits form it won’t matter so much how much he goes looking inside for work because of the threat he has at the edge, particularly in a world where defences have to play an extra man or two in the backfield to cover 50-22.

It’ll more be a question of losing possession when chips don’t come off and overplaying when scrambling back to cover kicks.
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