Tour to NZ 2022

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Atlas
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Atlas »

I'm shocked HB was selected. I thought if you weren't going to bring Burns or RB then next in line was Ben Healy.

Also feel we are light in the front row. Given the 5 games are in close proximity, one injury to a front rower and you could be asking a lot of the other 2 fit guys. If Furlong goes down in the warm up, TOT and Bealham may have to play 2 games in 4 days.
Ruckedtobits
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Ruckedtobits »

IMO the last time Ireland had the opportunity to tour with a full Squad to a country where the results of the games were vital to both teams was in 2016 when Ireland visited South Africa with Rory Best as Captain and Joe Schmidt as Head Coach.

Ireland travelled in the immediate aftermath of the Pro 12 final in which Connacht, under Pat Lam, shocked Leinster in the final in Edinburgh. The selected Tour Party included Rory Best & Iain Henderson, Conor Murray & CJ Stander, Robert Kearney & Jamie Heaslip, Ultan Dillane & Kieran Marmion, all of whom were not just players in form but key figures in their respective Provincial leadership groups.

That Tour Party also included Donnchadh Ryan, Jared Payne, Eoin Reddan, Mike Ross, Andrew Trimble & Luke Marshall, not to mention Keith Earls and Quinn Roux. There's little doubt that there considerable rugby intellect within that Squad.

As a reminder, Ireland beat S Africa for the first time ever in SA in the 1st Test, despite losing CJ to a red card after 22 mins. Despite losing the other two tests, Ireland returned from that Tour and subsequently had improved performances with many new emerging players right through to 2018.

From the perspective of the forthcoming trip to NZ, other interesting selections for the 2016 Tour included Tagdh Furlong (23), & Finlay Bealham(24) among the Props. Robbie Henshaw(22) & Ian Henderson(24) were other youngsters, whilst Jonny Sexton(30) was originally selected but missed out due to injury in the Pro12 final.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Ir ... uth_Africa

The reason for this backward look and reminder of that Tour six years ago is that such tours are rare beasts in the Irish rugby calender. In my opinion, the best of them become seminal in charting the course of Irish rugby success for a number of years into the future.

That is precisely what I believe will happen with this touring party. They travel under the guidance of a very experienced and recently successful Coaching group led by Andy Farrell, Simon Easterby, Mike Catt, Paul O'Connell and John Fogarty with the addition of Pete Wilkins from Connacht an interesting inclusion. Michael Kearney has probably the most successful record as Team Manager.

The rugby experience within the Squad is well recognised. Sexton, Ryan, Healy (Leinster), O'Mahony, Murray, Earls (Munster), Henderson, Herring, Timoney (Ulster) and Aki, Bealham, Hanson (Connacht) is probably the strongest collection of all four Provincial leaders that Ireland has ever gathered for one tour. In my view, the shared misfortunes of Munster, Leinster and Ulster in recent weeks will ensure a much quicker integration of this group of 40 players than might have been the case if Ulster or Leinster had been season-end winners.

Those misfortunes will also assist in the coaching and motivation of this group. None of the players are likely to be focused on the rear mirror of "what we do in Leinster/ Munster/Ulster/Connacht". All will be open to the views, patterns, tactics and game plans the Irish Coaching group have planned for them. Many of the players will discuss with their touring peers how their end-of-season felt and the reasons why. Information and theories will be shared, dissected and analysed.

There is no doubt this will be a very difficult tour. Dunedin for example can be very cold and miserable in July and many an old-timer from Lions Tours of the past remembers snow during games at the bottom of South Island. However, because of the shared bonds they have already developed during a successful 6 Nations and the new faces they have played against, but don't yet know very well, this promises to be a Tour Party that will learn, be confident in their ability and grow into a real squad that has started a journey that they hope will end in Paris next Autumn.

It will be fascinating to watch each step.
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Atlas wrote: June 14th, 2022, 10:37 pm I'm shocked HB was selected. I thought if you weren't going to bring Burns or RB then next in line was Ben Healy.

Also feel we are light in the front row. Given the 5 games are in close proximity, one injury to a front rower and you could be asking a lot of the other 2 fit guys. If Furlong goes down in the warm up, TOT and Bealham may have to play 2 games in 4 days.
I really don’t understand this either. I can’t remember the source but a while back a journalist mentioned that we’d be able to take a bigger squad (I think the figure was 43 but I’m not certain) and they were very sure about it. Perhaps there’ll be some “injury concerns” over the next week and we’ll be able to bring a few others along? Or maybe Jager or Rhys Marshall could end up as 24th man for the Maori? Benty might want to get his boots out of the attic too.
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cormac
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by cormac »

So are we looking at a team of

Lowry; Larmour, Hume, Frawley, O'Brien; Byrne, Casey; Loughman, Heffernan, O'Toole; Beirne*, Treadwell; Baird, Timoney, Coombes

Herring, Healy, Bealham, McCarthy, Prendergast, Murray, Carbery, Earls

for the first Maori game?

* having not played for quite a while, I suspect he needs some 50 minutes.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Dave Cahill »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 15th, 2022, 12:27 am
I really don’t understand this either. I can’t remember the source but a while back a journalist mentioned that we’d be able to take a bigger squad (I think the figure was 43 but I’m not certain) and they were very sure about it. Perhaps there’ll be some “injury concerns” over the next week and we’ll be able to bring a few others along? Or maybe Jager or Rhys Marshall could end up as 24th man for the Maori? Benty might want to get his boots out of the attic too.
There's always a balance to be struck between the size of the squad you bring and keeping that squad happy and occupied. You don't want to bring players that you aren't reasonably going to use as they're just going to be training without realistic chance of playing. On the other hand, you don't want to be caught short for numbers. Of course the idea of a fixed size travelling squad is a bit of an anachronism - its no longer a multi-week boat trip so you had to plan your numbers in advance to book berths! Okay, the hosting country will only contribute to the costs of x amount of players, but with air travel the whole idea is a throwback in reality
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leinsterforever
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by leinsterforever »

Atlas wrote: June 14th, 2022, 10:37 pm I'm shocked HB was selected. I thought if you weren't going to bring Burns or RB then next in line was Ben Healy.

Also feel we are light in the front row. Given the 5 games are in close proximity, one injury to a front rower and you could be asking a lot of the other 2 fit guys. If Furlong goes down in the warm up, TOT and Bealham may have to play 2 games in 4 days.
I think taking an extra loosehead would have been a good idea. Exposing a Warwick or a Wycherley to this level would have been good for increasing the strength in depth - especially given Healy is nearing the end and may not make the RWC. Having that extra man would also make it more feasible for Healy to cover hooker in an emergency, or Healy or Loughman to cover tighthead.
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blockhead
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by blockhead »

Was fairly happy with the squad till someone pointed out that Doak wasn't there :shock: .
Faz obviously see's something in HB, he certainly not there on form. He's put a line through the names of RB and Burns and he's right too. They are not international level and lets face it, apart from Johnny, no one is. Pretty soon we'll have to get by, for the first time this century without a top 10.
That's why I'm suprised Doak isn't there. His game can take presure and decision making off the 10s.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by RoboProp »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 15th, 2022, 12:27 am
Atlas wrote: June 14th, 2022, 10:37 pm I'm shocked HB was selected. I thought if you weren't going to bring Burns or RB then next in line was Ben Healy.

Also feel we are light in the front row. Given the 5 games are in close proximity, one injury to a front rower and you could be asking a lot of the other 2 fit guys. If Furlong goes down in the warm up, TOT and Bealham may have to play 2 games in 4 days.
I really don’t understand this either. I can’t remember the source but a while back a journalist mentioned that we’d be able to take a bigger squad (I think the figure was 43 but I’m not certain) and they were very sure about it. Perhaps there’ll be some “injury concerns” over the next week and we’ll be able to bring a few others along? Or maybe Jager or Rhys Marshall could end up as 24th man for the Maori? Benty might want to get his boots out of the attic too.
IIRC Jager wouldn't qualify for Maori
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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

RoboProp wrote: June 15th, 2022, 10:49 am
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 15th, 2022, 12:27 am
Atlas wrote: June 14th, 2022, 10:37 pm I'm shocked HB was selected. I thought if you weren't going to bring Burns or RB then next in line was Ben Healy.

Also feel we are light in the front row. Given the 5 games are in close proximity, one injury to a front rower and you could be asking a lot of the other 2 fit guys. If Furlong goes down in the warm up, TOT and Bealham may have to play 2 games in 4 days.
I really don’t understand this either. I can’t remember the source but a while back a journalist mentioned that we’d be able to take a bigger squad (I think the figure was 43 but I’m not certain) and they were very sure about it. Perhaps there’ll be some “injury concerns” over the next week and we’ll be able to bring a few others along? Or maybe Jager or Rhys Marshall could end up as 24th man for the Maori? Benty might want to get his boots out of the attic too.
IIRC Jager wouldn't qualify for Maori
I believe you are correct

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Māori_All_Blacks
leinsterforever
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by leinsterforever »

I read that as LRIP suggesting Jager/Marshall/Bent could play for Ireland against the Maori.

Would Marshall still be Irish eligible? I'm guessing not.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Dave Cahill »

leinsterforever wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:08 pm Would Marshall still be Irish eligible? I'm guessing not.
Purely on a technical basis it wouldn't matter against the Maori
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Oldschool »

Atlas wrote: June 14th, 2022, 10:37 pm I'm shocked HB was selected. I thought if you weren't going to bring Burns or RB then next in line was Ben Healy.

Also feel we are light in the front row. Given the 5 games are in close proximity, one injury to a front rower and you could be asking a lot of the other 2 fit guys. If Furlong goes down in the warm up, TOT and Bealham may have to play 2 games in 4 days.
Probably a year too soon but Crowley has the look of a guy who could be the next big thing at OH.
He should be transferred to Leinster so that he can get the right kind of coaching.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Oldschool »

leinsterforever wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:08 pm I read that as LRIP suggesting Jager/Marshall/Bent could play for Ireland against the Maori.

Would Marshall still be Irish eligible? I'm guessing not.
Bent, if he is still playing, would be a useful emergency call up.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Dave Cahill »

Māori All Blacks Squad: *denotes new caps



Props

Tamaiti Williams - Ngāpuhi (Canterbury/Crusaders)

Ollie Norris - Ngāpuhi (Waikato/Chiefs)

Marcel Renata - Ngāti Whānaunga / Ngāi Takoto (Auckland/Blues)

Jermaine Ainsley* - Te Rārawa / Te Arawa (Otago/Highlanders)

Tyrel Lomax - Muaupoko / Ngāi Tūhoe (Tasman/Hurricanes)



Hookers

Leni Apisai - Ngāti Awa (Auckland)

Kurt Eklund - Ngāti Kahu (Bay of Plenty/Blues)

Tyrone Thompson* - Ngāi Tāmanuhiri / Ngāti Rangiwewehi (Hawke’s Bay/Chiefs)



Locks

Isaia Walker-Leawere - Ngāti Porou (Hawke's Bay/Hurricanes)

Manaaki Selby-Rickit - Ngāti Raukawa / Ngāti Tūwharetoa (Bay of Plenty/Highlanders)

Josh Dickson - Ngāi Tahu (Otago/Highlanders)



Loose Forwards

Reed Prinsep - Te Rārawa (Canterbury/Hurricanes)

Caleb Delany* - Ngāti Tūwharetoa (Wellington/Hurricanes)

Billy Harmon - Ngāi Tahu (Canterbury/Highlanders)

Te Kamaka (TK) Howden* - Ngāi Tūhoe (Manawatū/Hurricanes)

Cameron Suafoa* - Ngāpuhi (Auckland/Blues)



Half Backs

TJ Perenara* - Ngāti Rangitihi (Wellington/Hurricanes)

Brad Weber - Ngāti Porou (Hawke's Bay/Chiefs)



First Five

Josh Ioane - Te Rārawa (Otago/Chiefs)

Ruben Love* - Te Atiawa (Wellington/Hurricanes)



Midfield

Alex Nankivell - Ngāti Pikiao (Tasman/Chiefs)

Rameka Poihipi - Ngāti Whakaue (Canterbury/Chiefs)

Billy Proctor - Ngāi Te Rangi / Ngāpuhi (Wellington/Hurricanes)

Bailyn Sullivan* - Ngāti Kahungunu (Waikato/Hurricanes)



Outside Backs

Connor Garden-Bachop* - Ngāti Awa (Wellington/Highlanders)

Josh Moorby* - Ngāti Maniapoto (Northland/Hurricanes)

Zarn Sullivan* - Ngāti Kahungunu (Auckland/Blues)

Shaun Stevenson - Ngāpuhi (North Harbour/Chiefs)
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jezzer
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by jezzer »

cormac wrote: June 15th, 2022, 8:40 am So are we looking at a team of

Lowry; Larmour, Hume, Frawley, O'Brien; Byrne, Casey; Loughman, Heffernan, O'Toole; Beirne*, Treadwell; Baird, Timoney, Coombes

Herring, Healy, Bealham, McCarthy, Prendergast, Murray, Carbery, Earls

for the first Maori game?

* having not played for quite a while, I suspect he needs some 50 minutes.
I don't think it's going to be that inexperienced. They'll want to start with as good a result as possible.

I'd guess
Keenan
Larmour
Hume
Aki
Lowe/Earls
Carbery
Murray

Healy
Heffernan
O'Toole
Beirne
McCarthy
O'Mahony
Timoney
Coombes
leinsterforever
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by leinsterforever »

Dave Cahill wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:28 pm
leinsterforever wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:08 pm Would Marshall still be Irish eligible? I'm guessing not.
Purely on a technical basis it wouldn't matter against the Maori
Really? Surely he'd still have to be Irish-eligible to play for Ireland? - even if it wasn't a capped game. He just wouldn't count as being 'captured' by Ireland afterwards.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

Faz about McCarthy "He offered himself constantly, he was a threat to the line, he’s got good footwork, great work-rate, good field awareness, he’s not trying to play tidy all the time – he gets off the line, he’s a menace at the breakdown."
https://www.the42.ie/andy-farrell-squad ... 5-Jun2022/

Interesting quote that probably says a lot about Faz as a coach.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Dave Cahill »

leinsterforever wrote: June 15th, 2022, 3:02 pm
Dave Cahill wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:28 pm
leinsterforever wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:08 pm Would Marshall still be Irish eligible? I'm guessing not.
Purely on a technical basis it wouldn't matter against the Maori
Really? Surely he'd still have to be Irish-eligible to play for Ireland? - even if it wasn't a capped game. He just wouldn't count as being 'captured' by Ireland afterwards.
Remember, the Maori are, in legal (as it were) terms, an invitational side - you can give games against them as much (or as little) status as you like. You could play them as Ireland, Ireland A, Emerging Ireland or the Combined Provinces, but at the end of the day it isn't a test match or a match against a next senior national team, and as such isn't governed by eligibility laws. Technically JGP could play for the Maori against Ireland on this tour. Now that would never happen as it would be highly disrespectful to our hosts and one of the best teams in world rugby, but under the regulations...
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leinsterforever
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by leinsterforever »

Dave Cahill wrote: June 15th, 2022, 3:12 pm
leinsterforever wrote: June 15th, 2022, 3:02 pm
Dave Cahill wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:28 pm
Purely on a technical basis it wouldn't matter against the Maori
Really? Surely he'd still have to be Irish-eligible to play for Ireland? - even if it wasn't a capped game. He just wouldn't count as being 'captured' by Ireland afterwards.
Remember, the Maori are, in legal (as it were) terms, an invitational side - you can give games against them as much (or as little) status as you like. You could play them as Ireland, Ireland A, Emerging Ireland or the Combined Provinces, but at the end of the day it isn't a test match or a match against a next senior national team, and as such isn't governed by eligibility laws. Technically JGP could play for the Maori against Ireland on this tour. Now that would never happen as it would be highly disrespectful to our hosts and one of the best teams in world rugby, but under the regulations...
Doesn't sound quite right to me, but okay.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by riocard911 »

Dave Cahill wrote: June 15th, 2022, 3:12 pm
leinsterforever wrote: June 15th, 2022, 3:02 pm
Dave Cahill wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:28 pm
Purely on a technical basis it wouldn't matter against the Maori
Really? Surely he'd still have to be Irish-eligible to play for Ireland? - even if it wasn't a capped game. He just wouldn't count as being 'captured' by Ireland afterwards.
Remember, the Maori are, in legal (as it were) terms, an invitational side - you can give games against them as much (or as little) status as you like. You could play them as Ireland, Ireland A, Emerging Ireland or the Combined Provinces, but at the end of the day it isn't a test match or a match against a next senior national team, and as such isn't governed by eligibility laws. Technically JGP could play for the Maori against Ireland on this tour. Now that would never happen as it would be highly disrespectful to our hosts and one of the best teams in world rugby, but under the regulations...
You're gas. Or play one half for us and the other half for them (if Perenara got injured for example), but I'm thinking that wouldn't be a runner either.... :-)
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