Tour to NZ 2022

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riocard911
Seán Cronin
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by riocard911 »

Mental resilience is a big time work-on for the Irish national team and the provincial teams too. In that light it will be interesting to see, the degree to which Andy Farrell and his coaching staff can help the squad members overcome the disappointments they have suffered with their respective provinces in recent weeks, in order to pose a serious threat to the All Blacks over the three tests of the upcoming summer tour. I'm not going to get my hopes up. To win even one of the tests would be fantastic. My minimum goal would be, that nothing comparable to the 60-0 defeat suffered in the final test in Hamilton in 2011 transpires. To go toe-to-toe with the Kiwi's on their own turf and not get blown away in any of the three tests would be enough for me, even if we lose the series 3-0.
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hugonaut
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by hugonaut »

I see Frawley going on this one.

I could be reading something into this that's not there, but ... Leinster get Ala'alatoa, Porter moves from tighthead to loosehead. Leinster get Ngatai, Frawley moves from centre to outhalf.
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ronk
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

hugonaut wrote: June 14th, 2022, 7:19 am I see Frawley going on this one.

I could be reading something into this that's not there, but ... Leinster get Ala'alatoa, Porter moves from tighthead to loosehead. Leinster get Ngatai, Frawley moves from centre to outhalf.
Frawley was an outhalf for 3 years playing a little with Leinster. Then made the switch to centre for 2 years and has been highly successful there, getting called up to the Ireland squad.

He has 22 appearances this season, 1 at 10 and 2 wearing 22 with 6-2 splits where he was possible cover. That fits with the idea of keeping him warm as a 10 for 6-2 splits.

When Sexton goes in a year, a ball playing 12 will be even more invaluable. I'm surprised how much the Frawley thing keeps coming up, he did look good at 10 in fairness.

The Porter switch was about filling a need for the Ireland team. And doing so would have have been impossible without a replacement for Bent. Leinster aren't deep at 3 now. Clarkson is 22, part of the reason Healy switched was to address the imbalance (also for Ireland RWC squad).

The Leinster squad is shrinking. We need fewer yet better players. Ngatai makes sense on his own. We've basically lost 3 locks and signed Jenkins, and lost 4 outside backs (Hawkshaw, COB, ROL, Adam Byrne) and signed Ngatai.

Strong players will let us rotate more (something Leo likes) and the bigger names can be play some smaller fixtures too. This season we were a bit too much of a strongest XXIII and B team. That's not really the long term way to develop because teams diverge.
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LeRouxIsPHat
Cian Healy
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

hugonaut wrote: June 14th, 2022, 7:19 am I see Frawley going on this one.

I could be reading something into this that's not there, but ... Leinster get Ala'alatoa, Porter moves from tighthead to loosehead. Leinster get Ngatai, Frawley moves from centre to outhalf.
I don’t think so, we’re just very short on centres. If Frawley was seen more as a ten then you’d just end up with Harry playing 12. I’m not against Harry getting time at 12 but I wouldn’t see them switching roles as such.

Sorry for repeating myself but as I keep saying I think Frawley should be Leinster’s number 22 next season so just give him enough time at ten to make that viable. With the lack of options for Ireland I’d be happy to have him doing that job for us already tbh. He might have some tough moments but by this time next year I’d expect him to have come on a lot if he got the opportunity.
Lock9541
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Lock9541 »

Harry Byrne got picked 😂😂 fair play to him but don’t think he’s the third best outhalf in Ireland at the moment
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Lock9541 »

Jimmy O’Brien, Frawley, Cian Prendergast and Nick Timoney picked
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suisse
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by suisse »

Ireland are an absolute mess at 10. 7 years in England 2015 we were relying heavily on Johnny Sexton to be fit. As he got older, we were even more reliant on Johnny Sexton at 10 for Japan. Now, a year from France 2023, we're more reliant on Sexton than ever before.

Sexton backed up by Joey Carbery and Harry Byrne is, to be frank, an almost embarrassing situation to be in.
Leinsterimp
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Leinsterimp »

Surprised to see Healy and Conan picked on current form. Healy in particular I don’t think we can rely on to start a tough game or come off the bench early if there are injuries
wixfjord
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by wixfjord »

Baird named as a backrow is very interesting.

Delighted for Joe McCarthy & Frawley.

Our prop lineup looks pretty weak behind the starters.

Harry is very lucky to be there, but it might give him a boost of confidence and some good challenges in big games.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by wixfjord »

Farrell clearly sees an issue at TH lock which is why he's gone for McCarthy & Treadwell. The latter seems to be rated by international coaches but not as highly rated by his provincial coach which is interesting.
enby
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by enby »

How Treadwell managed to get selected ahead of Moloney or Kleyn or O'Connor is a complete mystery. Murray and Joey lucky that the likes of Healy and Doak haven't had much game time. I would take Blade over CM though I can see why the management thought otherwise. Congrats to the uncapped lads each of whom deserve their selection. Terrible turn of luck for Balacoune, who has had an outstanding season.
Not sure what to expect from this most difficult of tours. Heart says a 3-2, head says a 0-5 with the final test being a chastening experience. Lets hope my pessimism is shown to be unfounded
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Leinsterimp wrote: June 14th, 2022, 12:19 pm Surprised to see Healy and Conan picked on current form. Healy in particular I don’t think we can rely on to start a tough game or come off the bench early if there are injuries
I’m not surprised Healy is travelling but you’d have to think that Leinster’s reluctance to bring him on last Friday was a bit of a watershed moment for him. I’d have had Josh Wycherley in there. His form has been mixed but he’s young and the Maori games seemed perfect for him.

I don’t think Conan has been bad by any means but I hope Coombes gets at least one test start.

I’d have been bolder at hooker too and gone with Stewart or McKee ahead of Heffernan or at least as extra cover. I’d definitely have taken Kendellan or Penny as extra cover at 7 as well.

I feel for Molony and Ross Byrne not making it, hard to see them ever making another squad at this stage but I think it’s the right call. I hope Harry starts both Maori games but it’ll be interesting to see if Frawley does get much time there.

It’s a real shame Baloucoune won’t get a shot but with the injuries to himself and Conway there’s suddenly a big opportunity for Larmour after he’d found himself out in the cold recently, hope he takes it.
wixfjord
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by wixfjord »

enby wrote: June 14th, 2022, 12:30 pm How Treadwell managed to get selected ahead of Moloney or Kleyn or O'Connor is a complete mystery. Murray and Joey lucky that the likes of Healy and Doak haven't had much game time. I would take Blade over CM though I can see why the management thought otherwise. Congrats to the uncapped lads each of whom deserve their selection. Terrible turn of luck for Balacoune, who has had an outstanding season.
Not sure what to expect from this most difficult of tours. Heart says a 3-2, head says a 0-5 with the final test being a chastening experience. Lets hope my pessimism is shown to be unfounded
Treadwell is competing with Kleyn/McCarthy really.
Molony probably competing with Ryan/Beirne and Baird (if he's seen as hybrid) as the slightly lighter, looser option.
wixfjord
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by wixfjord »

Really would love to see the likes of Hume, Frawley, Casey, Prendergast, McCarthy given starting opportunities against Maori.

All guys who seem to have a little bit of that test edge and would relish it.

Hume & McCarthy in particular could have really big tours if they get a bit of luck.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by enby »

Good to see Lowry being able to tour. A smashing little player
riocard911
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by riocard911 »

wixfjord wrote: June 14th, 2022, 12:25 pm Baird named as a backrow is very interesting.

Delighted for Joe McCarthy & Frawley.

Our prop lineup looks pretty weak behind the starters.

Harry is very lucky to be there, but it might give him a boost of confidence and some good challenges in big games.
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TMC
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by TMC »

Think Byrne fortunate to go and bringing Healy the wrong call. Healy looks jaded, flogging him makes no sense. A summer off DJing at the festivals to recharge his batteries would have been the better option IMO. Molony has had a better season than Treadwell, his lineout work and passing at a different level. The TH Lock will be Henderson if fit, suspect McCarthy is next up and will start the Maori games and Ryan is an in case of emergency option so don’t really see the argument for Treadwell ahead of him. I don’t think the Treadwell as a TH lock argument holds water as Treadwell tends to replace AOC not Henderson most of the time for Ulster. If they want another TH Lock bring Kleyn who actually does the needful. Central contracts probably play a part but on current form neither Murray or Carbery should be going. Think over the course of the season Ross Byrne entitled to feel a small bit hacked off, couple of high profile mistakes in pressure games of late may have cost him. His style of play doesn’t suit what Ireland are trying to do but both he and Burns have been in much better form IMO than Carbery who is very lucky to be going as he is playing like a drain. Cooney’s ship has sailed for whatever reason, but not bringing Doak is a mistake from a development point of view.
In the centre think McCloskey is desperately unfortunate, he losses out to Frawley’s versatility and Byrne's anointed status with the management, that’s the wrong call. Harry cant oust his brother, if they are bringing a "development 10" then go with Frawley and bring McCloskey who must wonder how well does he have to play to get a fair crack of the whip. He has arguably been the best 12 in Ireland over the course of the season, management have really missed an opportunity not picking him, think a combination of him playing inside Robbie well worth having a look at before the RWC. His hands are excellent and his offloading out of the tackle is top drawer which would be an asset to the style of play they’re looking to implement and he always makes inroads. For me, he makes those around him look better players, that’s the sign of a real class act.
Anyway best of luck to them, first game is in a fortnight, it’s not much time.
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cormac
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by cormac »

Any word on how long Kelleher is likely to be out injured?
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hugonaut
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by hugonaut »

cormac wrote: June 14th, 2022, 3:02 pm Any word on how long Kelleher is likely to be out injured?
Haven't heard anything. Going on previous players, I reckon it's an operation for him and a good bit of time off. I cannot emphasise this enough though: I'm not a doctor, and that is just speculation based on limited information.

He injured it mid-Feb against France, came back mid-April for second leg of the Connacht game in the cup, went down with the squad to SA the following week but didn't play because of slight recurrence/niggle, played the three European knock-outs but came off injured early in the final against La Rochelle at the end of May and hasn't played since.

With the recurrences, you would imagine it's the sort of thing that they will need to sort out with surgery.
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fourthirtythree
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by fourthirtythree »

TMC wrote: June 14th, 2022, 3:00 pm Think Byrne fortunate to go and bringing Healy the wrong call. Healy looks jaded, flogging him makes no sense. A summer off DJing at the festivals to recharge his batteries would have been the better option IMO. Molony has had a better season than Treadwell, his lineout work and passing at a different level. The TH Lock will be Henderson if fit, suspect McCarthy is next up and will start the Maori games and Ryan is an in case of emergency option so don’t really see the argument for Treadwell ahead of him. I don’t think the Treadwell as a TH lock argument holds water as Treadwell tends to replace AOC not Henderson most of the time for Ulster. If they want another TH Lock bring Kleyn who actually does the needful. Central contracts probably play a part but on current form neither Murray or Carbery should be going. Think over the course of the season Ross Byrne entitled to feel a small bit hacked off, couple of high profile mistakes in pressure games of late may have cost him. His style of play doesn’t suit what Ireland are trying to do but both he and Burns have been in much better form IMO than Carbery who is very lucky to be going as he is playing like a drain. Cooney’s ship has sailed for whatever reason, but not bringing Doak is a mistake from a development point of view.
In the centre think McCloskey is desperately unfortunate, he losses out to Frawley’s versatility and Byrne's anointed status with the management, that’s the wrong call. Harry cant oust his brother, if they are bringing a "development 10" then go with Frawley and bring McCloskey who must wonder how well does he have to play to get a fair crack of the whip. He has arguably been the best 12 in Ireland over the course of the season, management have really missed an opportunity not picking him, think a combination of him playing inside Robbie well worth having a look at before the RWC. His hands are excellent and his offloading out of the tackle is top drawer which would be an asset to the style of play they’re looking to implement and he always makes inroads. For me, he makes those around him look better players, that’s the sign of a real class act.
Anyway best of luck to them, first game is in a fortnight, it’s not much time.
Agree with a lot of that, don't see it with Treadwell personally, I'd consider Kleyn as a TH prop, he's been pretty good. When Hume has played for Ireland it has been without McCloskey and he has looked, at best, very average. Now I don't believe he is average but he wasn't good for Ireland. He always looks good for Ulster. I'd like to see us try to get the best out of the midfield. Gutted that Baloucoune isn't playing, him and Lowe (who we missed desperately at the weekend) is so far ahead of Earls and Conway as an attacking force it's hard to imagine. I like Lowry but I think Haley can feel hard done by - he's been excellent this year and in terms of an FB who reads the game intelligently he has been eye catching. I agree with Prendergast coming - thought he's been outstanding.

I don't know if HB is the wrong call - Farrell and team deserve our suspension of disbelief - but there are a few calls there I don't think I'd have made.
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