Tour to NZ 2022

[wixfjord]

We're going to end up in a situation like England had post Wilkinson; rotating through a whole heap of players that just aren't good enough. No amount of giving international game time to Harry, Carty, Burns, Ross, Joey, Healy, Crowley, Frawley and whoever else is going to magically fix that they're not at that level right now and probably never will be. The problem is that there isn't any easy fix. These players need to improve at provincial level if they're going to eventually reach the standard required for tests like these. Until then, all we can do is select the least bad option.

I don't think it's right to say Harry, Frawley, Healy, Crowley will 'never be at the required level'.

Many would've said the same about J10 pre May 2008.

All are guys with very high potential who haven't even been given a significant shot yet at a high provincial level, never mind in green.

Carty, Burns and Ross are a different story. All are 3/4 years older and have a lot more 'sample size'.

[dropkick]

I think Porter has to move back to tighthead if there isn't an improvement in the autumn. It would have the added benefit of reducing Furlongs workload. Perception is huge and Porter now has a reputation of being a weak scrummager at loosehead.

[riocard911]

We're going to end up in a situation like England had post Wilkinson; rotating through a whole heap of players that just aren't good enough. No amount of giving international game time to Harry, Carty, Burns, Ross, Joey, Healy, Crowley, Frawley and whoever else is going to magically fix that they're not at that level right now and probably never will be. The problem is that there isn't any easy fix. These players need to improve at provincial level if they're going to eventually reach the standard required for tests like these. Until then, all we can do is select the least bad option.

I don't think it's right to say Harry, Frawley, Healy, Crowley will 'never be at the required level'.

Many would've said the same about J10 pre May 2008.

All are guys with very high potential who haven't even been given a significant shot yet at a high provincial level, never mind in green.

Carty, Burns and Ross are a different story. All are 3/4 years older and have a lot more 'sample size'.

+1

[Flash Gordon]

I think Porter has to move back to tighthead if there isn't an improvement in the autumn. It would have the added benefit of reducing Furlongs workload. Perception is huge and Porter now has a reputation of being a weak scrummager at loosehead.

He's learning to play loosehead in international rugby which is not a great situation to be in. He came through at loosehead but quickly switched but the reason he switched is still there, Furlong is there and we don't have world class loose heads. Furthermore, he has rebuilt his body to play loosehead, he'll need to do the same in reverse if he reverts.

By the way I think we also need to be looking at what's around him, at both Leinster and for Ireland our locks aren't great scrummagers. Ireland really missed Hendo at the weekend in my opinion.

[backrower8]

There's long been a triple standard in rugby where put-ins are never straight, lineouts are rarely straight, but a fumble that goes straight down is almost always judged as a knock-on.

THIS!!!

And then Aaron Smith knocks on before Savea try #1 and its "not a knock-on".

Other scourges of the sport that can be quickly done away with are slow 1st phase formation (how do you market a sport where the ball is in play for 32-38 mins of 80/less than half the time?!); kickers stealing metres (just put shaving foam on the mark) and, a big one here, trapping opponents in the breakdown to milk a penalty

Refereeing the last foot seems to have been abandoned - despite having 4 officials.

As for penalising a reasonably retreating or wheeling scrum....how ridiculous is that?

The sport is so 'gamed' and full of shithousery and biased towards whoever has the biggest qualified humans (8 subs/ 6:2)...that my interest in my sport continues to wither on the vine.

We deserved to lose, but the extent to which the officials facilitated NZL was a significant factor in how momentum built for them and we were slowed in our attempts to claw back. They really impinge consistently en masse and then the referee can only blow for a fraction of the deliberate acts. Our Captain's need to develop much stronger, diplomtic lines that politely pressure a referee (on mic) to look more objectively at how they are refereeing a game.

[betty swallocks]

We're going to end up in a situation like England had post Wilkinson; rotating through a whole heap of players that just aren't good enough. No amount of giving international game time to Harry, Carty, Burns, Ross, Joey, Healy, Crowley, Frawley and whoever else is going to magically fix that they're not at that level right now and probably never will be. The problem is that there isn't any easy fix. These players need to improve at provincial level if they're going to eventually reach the standard required for tests like these. Until then, all we can do is select the least bad option.

Dark horse could be Hansen who played some 10 in Australia prior to moving to Connacht.

[the spoofer]

The throw in to the lineout just before NZ's first try was dreadfully crooked. As in the NZ catcher had to reach out to his right to get it. NZ played the ref well in the lineouts, they got pinged early on for closing the gap but knew that he wouldn't keep penalising them so immediately went back to it. This was a common theme with the Maori who did the same. There was literally no gap by the time the ball is thrown in.

[Flash Gordon]

There's long been a triple standard in rugby where put-ins are never straight, lineouts are rarely straight, but a fumble that goes straight down is almost always judged as a knock-on.

THIS!!!

And then Aaron Smith knocks on before Savea try #1 and its "not a knock-on".

Other scourges of the sport that can be quickly done away with are slow 1st phase formation (how do you market a sport where the ball is in play for 32-38 mins of 80/less than half the time?!); kickers stealing metres (just put shaving foam on the mark) and, a big one here, trapping opponents in the breakdown to milk a penalty

Refereeing the last foot seems to have been abandoned - despite having 4 officials.

As for penalising a reasonably retreating or wheeling scrum....how ridiculous is that?

The sport is so 'gamed' and full of shithousery and biased towards whoever has the biggest qualified humans (8 subs/ 6:2)...that my interest in my sport continues to wither on the vine.

We deserved to lose, but the extent to which the officials facilitated NZL was a significant factor in how momentum built for them and we were slowed in our attempts to claw back. They really impinge consistently en masse and then the referee can only blow for a fraction of the deliberate acts. Our Captain's need to develop much stronger, diplomtic lines that politely pressure a referee (on mic) to look more objectively at how they are refereeing a game.

There are all kinds of gamesmanship and double standards. A block on a kick chase can get you a penalty or a yellow card whereas at the breakdown it's perfectly acceptable for a player on the ground to grab another player's shirt to prevent him moving. It's never called - refs either need to deal with it or at least allow the player held to take care of it.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

We're going to end up in a situation like England had post Wilkinson; rotating through a whole heap of players that just aren't good enough. No amount of giving international game time to Harry, Carty, Burns, Ross, Joey, Healy, Crowley, Frawley and whoever else is going to magically fix that they're not at that level right now and probably never will be. The problem is that there isn't any easy fix. These players need to improve at provincial level if they're going to eventually reach the standard required for tests like these. Until then, all we can do is select the least bad option.

I think that's a pretty harsh assessment of a few of them but also I think it's worth remembering that we're unlikely to have anyone at Sexton's level for a very long time and that's okay. We don't need tens who give us 8/10 most weeks and are capable of higher, someone who's solid and can manage 7/10 consistently would do just fine and I think a few of those lads above can manage that. I do actually think Harry is capable of much more than that but I can't deny that he's erratic and the injuries are a concern. The more I see Frawley the more I agree with others who think he's capable of being a top ten too. If you look at someone like Crowley, people raved about him after that game in Castres this season. From what I saw his attacking play was dreadful (not that he isn't capable of much more as we saw for the 20's) but his defence and kicking from the tee were really good, and that gives you a chance in any game.

I agree with your last point but I'd be more optimistic about the future even if none of the contenders get close to Sexton's level/longevity.

[TMC]

General tone of comments is quite negative. There were positives, we played a lot of the rugby, they got the benefit of a couple of questionable referee calls, he signalled an advantage before their first try which we didn’t get, VDF being held in illegally created the hole for the knock on try, he was very lenient on the offside line and his refereeing of the breakdown was downright lamentable. Arguably two of their tries should not have stood. That said we made life difficult for ourselves. We were held up 4 times over the line, that’s just inexcusable, any team that allows that to happen doesn’t deserve to win. With a referee who is maybe just 60/40 biased towards New Zealand & if we play like that again and eliminate the mistakes we will give them a game.
There was a fairly prominent article on Dickinson in the NZ media in the run up to the game, it appears to have done the trick and got to him. Given what has been highlighted for on social media you would hope for a more competent refereeing performance from Peyper. Doesn’t look like Barrett is going to be cited for his actions which is somewhat mystifying. It was really dangerous especially as O’Mahony was bent over. How a professional referee missed that 6 feet in front of him is a case for standing the referee down immediately on player safety grounds if nothing else.
I think WR are going to have to have a look at setting up their own broadcasting division. The NZ TV directors are up there with the French is terms of how one sided they are and what they choose to show.

[CiaranIrl]

We're going to end up in a situation like England had post Wilkinson; rotating through a whole heap of players that just aren't good enough. No amount of giving international game time to Harry, Carty, Burns, Ross, Joey, Healy, Crowley, Frawley and whoever else is going to magically fix that they're not at that level right now and probably never will be. The problem is that there isn't any easy fix. These players need to improve at provincial level if they're going to eventually reach the standard required for tests like these. Until then, all we can do is select the least bad option.

I don't think it's right to say Harry, Frawley, Healy, Crowley will 'never be at the required level'.

Many would've said the same about J10 pre May 2008.

All are guys with very high potential who haven't even been given a significant shot yet at a high provincial level, never mind in green.

Carty, Burns and Ross are a different story. All are 3/4 years older and have a lot more 'sample size'.

You're right. That's why I didn't say that.

[riocard911]

TMC: "I think WR are going to have to have a look at setting up their own broadcasting division. The NZ TV directors are up there with the French is terms of how one sided they are and what they choose to show."

+1!!!

[Dexter]

Barrett not cited is laughable, if were even remotely funny. Does someone need to be seriously injured first??

[wixfjord]

We're going to end up in a situation like England had post Wilkinson; rotating through a whole heap of players that just aren't good enough. No amount of giving international game time to Harry, Carty, Burns, Ross, Joey, Healy, Crowley, Frawley and whoever else is going to magically fix that they're not at that level right now and probably never will be. The problem is that there isn't any easy fix. These players need to improve at provincial level if they're going to eventually reach the standard required for tests like these. Until then, all we can do is select the least bad option.

I don't think it's right to say Harry, Frawley, Healy, Crowley will 'never be at the required level'.

Many would've said the same about J10 pre May 2008.

All are guys with very high potential who haven't even been given a significant shot yet at a high provincial level, never mind in green.

Carty, Burns and Ross are a different story. All are 3/4 years older and have a lot more 'sample size'.

You're right. That's why I didn't say that.

No amount of giving international game time to Harry, Carty, Burns, Ross, Joey, Healy, Crowley, Frawley and whoever else is going to magically fix that they're not at that level right now and probably never will be

[backrower8]

TMC: "I think WR are going to have to have a look at setting up their own broadcasting division. The NZ TV directors are up there with the French is terms of how one sided they are and what they choose to show."

+1!!!

[Dave Cahill]

Are we sure there's no citing? The window is 50 hours from Kickoff, which is 10ish this morning our time - but thats 9 in the evening in New Zealand, so an announcment would have missed all the media deadlines and probably would have been held over til the next morning (sometime this evening our time)

[Flash Gordon]

Are we sure there's no citing? The window is 50 hours from Kickoff, which is 10ish this morning our time - but thats 9 in the evening in New Zealand, so an announcment would have missed all the media deadlines and probably would have been held over til the next morning (sometime this evening our time)

Seems to have avoided the citing Dave.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... er-omahony

[Dave Cahill]

Okay, thanks for that

[Oldschoolsocks]

Why aren’t the coaching team kicking up a fuss about this?

[Flash Gordon]

Okay, thanks for that

Hard to understand that he didn't have a question to answer. Clearly shoulder to head with absolutely no attempt to bind.