Tour to NZ 2022

[Dave Cahill]

What was the point in flogging Porter in a hammering?

They have to get scrums into the guy I presume

[Atlas]

I thought the backs, with the exception of Lowe, were poor enough. Ring rose was very poor throwing 2 intercepts and missing the tackle on Savea.

Lineone wasn't great, scrum was under big pressure as well so not great platform to work from.

Looking to next week, no real changes in the pack can be made really. POM vs Conan is really the only debate.

Could change a few things in the backline alright but it feels like shuffling chairs around on the Titanic.

[jezzer]

I thought we left a try or two behind( we were literally over the line) and they got a lucky try or two. They got their other ones far to easy but if people are going to talk about us being humiliated they were watching a different game to me. Beaten by the better side and got punished on the scoreboard by a better side, welcome to New Zealand.

Totally agree. So many rubs of the green for NZ, so many tough situations for Ireland. Was a lot closer than the scoreline suggests, but that's what happens playing NZ

[Dave Cahill]

I thought the backs, with the exception of Lowe, were poor enough. Ring rose was very poor throwing 2 intercepts and missing the tackle on Savea.

Lineone wasn't great, scrum was under big pressure as well so not great platform to work from.

Looking to next week, no real changes in the pack can be made really. POM vs Conan is really the only debate.

Could change a few things in the backline alright but it feels like shuffling chairs around on the Titanic.

Do you not think there might be a connection between your first sentence and your second?

[desperado]

I thought the backs, with the exception of Lowe, were poor enough. Ring rose was very poor throwing 2 intercepts and missing the tackle on Savea.

Lineone wasn't great, scrum was under big pressure as well so not great platform to work from.

Looking to next week, no real changes in the pack can be made really. POM vs Conan is really the only debate.

Could change a few things in the backline alright but it feels like shuffling chairs around on the Titanic.

No debate on POM for me. I'm not one of his cheerleaders in general, but he and VDF were immense. Looking at the stats you'd wonder how we lost. Possession, territory, tackles made, time in opposition 22. As ROG said 21 pts in 10 mins. We need to mind the pill.

[Logorrhea]

I thought they did fairly well there for a team with no set piece. They faced a fantastic defensive performance from New Zealand (that Ioane tackle on Carberry was unbelievably good) yet still left a few tries out there. We were better than the scoreboard says.

Though Sheehan and VdF were absolutely class. POM, Lowe, Keenan and Henshaw looked pretty good too.

While New Zealand will look to improve, I think there are a lot of areas where we can improve too.

[Dave Cahill]

Though Sheehan and VdF were absolutely class. POM, Lowe, Keenan and Henshaw looked pretty good too.

Sheehan was poor.

[desperado]

So was Healy actually healthy enough to play? What was the point in flogging Porter in a hammering?

I can’t remember a game where we started so well and fell apart so quickly. That ten minutes before half time was appalling, so many sloppy errors and stupid decisions. We need to learn that there are times when we need a breather and that kicking the ball off the field is the best thing to do. JGP ran the ball a couple of times when it really wasn’t on and we just started drowning.

If you look at Beirne for the try that Barrett chipped through the guy was, understandably, bolloxed already. Lots of other players walking around in open play at times but we just made it worse on ourselves. The difference in our tackling after that first 25 minutes or so was stark.

the thing is they were having to make more tackles than us. What Beirne was doing stepping in I don't know. The amount of clearing beyond the ruck, lying on the wrong side, and entry ( perfect example Whitelock on the line) by the ABs allowed by Dickson was ridiculous. Finally a YC in min 78. We didn't adapt to Dickson's interpretation and do likewise.

[desperado]

Though Sheehan and VdF were absolutely class. POM, Lowe, Keenan and Henshaw looked pretty good too.

Sheehan was poor.

Very harsh.

[wixfjord]

Though Sheehan and VdF were absolutely class. POM, Lowe, Keenan and Henshaw looked pretty good too.

Sheehan was poor.

That's not true at all though.

The lineout was poor. Part of that down to him, part of it down to the unit.

In open play he was excellent as usual, our most powerful forward and by far most metres carried. Even when he came back on he was making breaks.

[Atlas]

I thought the backs, with the exception of Lowe, were poor enough. Ring rose was very poor throwing 2 intercepts and missing the tackle on Savea.

Lineone wasn't great, scrum was under big pressure as well so not great platform to work from.

Looking to next week, no real changes in the pack can be made really. POM vs Conan is really the only debate.

Could change a few things in the backline alright but it feels like shuffling chairs around on the Titanic.

Do you not think there might be a connection between your first sentence and your second?

Of course. I just ment that the backs needed to make great decisions given the pack preformance and they didn't. Like ringrose forced offload that ended in a try for NZ for example.

[riocard911]

NZ are fantastic on the counter and making tries out of half chances, as they showed in the 2nd quarter. Their D was top notch though, both around the park and especially on their own line. Ireland stuck at it, fair play to them, but if we don't achieve at least parity at both set pieces, we're never gonna win the second test. Thought Sheehan was Ireland's best player. Don't understand Ciano on the bench, if they're not gonna play him.......

P.s. it looked to me, that Retalick suffered an eye gouge. If that's what happened, whoever did it disgraced himself and Irish rugby.

[hugonaut]

So was Healy actually healthy enough to play? What was the point in flogging Porter in a hammering?

I can’t remember a game where we started so well and fell apart so quickly. That ten minutes before half time was appalling, so many sloppy errors and stupid decisions. We need to learn that there are times when we need a breather and that kicking the ball off the field is the best thing to do. JGP ran the ball a couple of times when it really wasn’t on and we just started drowning.

If you look at Beirne for the try that Barrett chipped through the guy was, understandably, bolloxed already. Lots of other players walking around in open play at times but we just made it worse on ourselves. The difference in our tackling after that first 25 minutes or so was stark.

Can't say for certain, but I would suspect that Healy wasn't fit enough to play. That dude is as tough as they come and he was in serious pain coming off the pitch three days ago.

Ed Byrne isn't in the country yet, Loughman is concussed, Bealham has covid Covid. We only have four fit props. If we didn't name Healy on the bench, we were down to either calling in Bent [which we might have had to do] or concede the match. Realistically, we would have called in Bent, because I just can't see the circumstance in which we would have pulled out of a sold out test match. We'd be Public Enemy #1 in NZ and a laughing stock around the rugby world.

A lot of talk about calling up Ollie Jager [a tighthead, not a loosehead], but from everything I have read or heard, Ollie Jager doesn't want to play for Ireland. It's his call. He has been out in NZ more or less full time since doing his Leaving Cert – seven years now. His dad is Dutch and his family live in Abu Dhabi, not necessarily his prerogative to play for Ireland.

[Cheeses of Nazareth]

Frustrating game from our point of view. Henshaw, Sheehan, VDF and POM were all good. Ringrose mixed good and bad. Some great hits and took his try well but was centrally involved in two of their tries.

Sexton started very well mixing it up nicely. Concerning how we lost all shape once he went off though. Carbery just isn’t able to run the back line and all those lovely lines and options we’ve seen go out the window.

Our set piece struggled and we got no joy out of the maul. Flogging Porter (and Sheehan since Kellehers injury against France) is a concern. Healy was obviously not fit to be on the bench. Maybe the plan was to switch him for TOT but COVID played our hand.

I’m not sure i’d be too fearful of this NZ. They looked a bit nervy in the first 20-30mins against us until Reece scored. The next 10 was a disaster for us. I wouldn’t look at them and think they’re streets ahead of us with no way of bridging the gap. A lot of their scores were from poor errors by us. They just happen to be the best team in the world at capitalising on any mistakes.

Their defence was excellent today too but we made it easy for them as we lost our shape once Sexton went off. Physically I thought we were well matched.

[hugonaut]

Though Sheehan and VdF were absolutely class. POM, Lowe, Keenan and Henshaw looked pretty good too.

Sheehan was poor.

That's not true at all though.

The lineout was poor. Part of that down to him, part of it down to the unit.

In open play he was excellent as usual, our most powerful forward and by far most metres carried. Even when he came back on he was making breaks.

Thought Dan had a really good game. Obviously he has to take some of the heat for the lineout not going particularly well, but if it's not a crooked throw, it's tough and unfair to put the blame on the hooker. There are a lot of moving parts, from call to co-ordination to lifting to jumping to handling.

Otherwise I thought he was one of our best.

[wixfjord]

Frustrating game from our point of view. Henshaw, Sheehan, VDF and POM were all good. Ringrose mixed good and bad. Some great hits and took his try well but was centrally involved in two of their tries.

Sexton started very well mixing it up nicely. Concerning how we lost all shape once he went off though. Carbery just isn’t able to run the back line and all those lovely lines and options we’ve seen go out the window.

Our set piece struggled and we got no joy out of the maul. Flogging Porter (and Sheehan since Kellehers injury against France) is a concern. Healy was obviously not fit to be on the bench. Maybe the plan was to switch him for TOT but COVID played our hand.

I’m not sure i’d be too fearful of this NZ. They looked a bit nervy in the first 20-30mins against us until Reece scored. The next 10 was a disaster for us. I wouldn’t look at them and think they’re streets ahead of us with no way of bridging the gap. A lot of their scores were from poor errors by us. They just happen to be the best team in the world at capitalising on any mistakes.

Their defence was excellent today too but we made it easy for them as we lost our shape once Sexton went off. Physically I thought we were well matched.

Would agree with a lot of that, particularly the bold.

Joey just looks like rabbit in headlights constantly. Crabbing sideways and not putting any shape on attack. He has absolutely no physical presence. The tackle avoidance was just ridiculous. Can't do that at this level.

I don't think this is a vintage NZ team at all though. Albeit we don't have the 23 to take them on at the moment.

[Dave Cahill]

Though Sheehan and VdF were absolutely class. POM, Lowe, Keenan and Henshaw looked pretty good too.

Sheehan was poor.

That's not true at all though.

The lineout was poor. Part of that down to him, part of it down to the unit.

In open play he was excellent as usual, our most powerful forward and by far most metres carried. Even when he came back on he was making breaks.

Okay, he was mediocre - in Irish rugby we have to stop allowing guys in skill positions who can't execute the skills at the top level have a pass because they're good around the park. We will not win a world cup, 6 Nations, HECC or URC (not now anyways) with a sub 90% lineout. I agree that it's not all the hookers fault, there are a lot of moving parts to a lineout, but it's a consistant problem in Irish Rugby. Ireland haven't had a hooker who can throw well since Flannery, and Leinster - Shane Byrne, who retired over 15 years ago!?

[wixfjord]

Sheehan was poor.

That's not true at all though.

The lineout was poor. Part of that down to him, part of it down to the unit.

In open play he was excellent as usual, our most powerful forward and by far most metres carried. Even when he came back on he was making breaks.

Okay, he was mediocre - in Irish rugby we have to stop allowing guys in skill positions who can't execute the skills at the top level have a pass because they're good around the park. We will not win a world cup, 6 Nations, HECC or URC (not now anyways) with a sub 90% lineout. I agree that it's not all the hookers fault, there are a lot of moving parts to a lineout, but it's a consistant problem in Irish Rugby. Ireland haven't had a hooker who can throw well since Flannery, and Leinster - Shane Byrne, who retired over 15 years ago!?

No, he wasn't mediocre Dave. He was probably our best forward alongside VDF & POM.

He had a really good game in open play (our top pack carrier by a good distance).

The lineout was an issue, but from looking at it, throwing wasn't the key issue.

It wasn't as if he was overthrowing balls or not straights. There was quite a few times our jumpers got the ball and fumbled in lineout.

Throwing is actually a strength in Sheehan's game.

[hugonaut]

the thing is they were having to make more tackles than us. What Beirne was doing stepping in I don't know. The amount of clearing beyond the ruck, lying on the wrong side, and entry ( perfect example Whitelock on the line) by the ABs allowed by Dickson was ridiculous. Finally a YC in min 78. We didn't adapt to Dickson's interpretation and do likewise.

I agree. Don't like moaning about refs after a loss, and he's certainly not the reason we lost – they cut our throats in the second quarter and were deserved winners.

But you can't 'adapt' to guys lying on the wrong side. Raking isn't in the game anymore - certainly not the sort of raking that is going to dissuade an All Black from doing his bit for his national side in Eden Park. You have to rely on the ref to penalise it, otherwise you've got slower ball throughout the game and it is more difficult to catch the defence unaligned.

We conceded five breakdown penalties in the first half alone against the Maori, and three of them were for lying on the wrong side. That was Barnes, an English ref, and this was Dickson, also an English ref. Very different refereeing of that part of the game. The game was reffed one way in Hamilton [correctly, in my opinion], and it went against us. It was reffed another way in Auckland [incorrectly, IMO] and it went against us this time too. Tough scene.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Sheehan was poor.

That's not true at all though.

The lineout was poor. Part of that down to him, part of it down to the unit.

In open play he was excellent as usual, our most powerful forward and by far most metres carried. Even when he came back on he was making breaks.

Okay, he was mediocre - in Irish rugby we have to stop allowing guys in skill positions who can't execute the skills at the top level have a pass because they're good around the park. We will not win a world cup, 6 Nations, HECC or URC (not now anyways) with a sub 90% lineout. I agree that it's not all the hookers fault, there are a lot of moving parts to a lineout, but it's a consistant problem in Irish Rugby. Ireland haven't had a hooker who can throw well since Flannery, and Leinster - Shane Byrne, who retired over 15 years ago!?

The evidence of the season doesn’t really back you up though Dave. Sheehan’s LO stats have been good all season, this points to our lineout just not performing as a unit since the end of the regular season.