Tour to NZ 2022

[desperado]

The law needs to change. It's too open to interpretation, abuse and controversy. Players and referees need to know where they stand.

Failed intercepts which result in a knock-on should be penalties. All this stuff about hands up, hands down, ball up, ball down, single hand, two hands, "a reasonable expectation that the player could regather possession" ... just get rid of it.

From there, you can apply other sanctions varying with the incident [i.e. yellow card, penalty try etc.]

I think the law is clear. None of that is there anyway; unless I'm missing something. It seems clear to me; and clarified further with the short vid (World Rugby Laws app)

I was trying to illustrate how commentators are describing the reasoning behind awarding a scrum rather than a penalty – that's where most people watching the match are getting their information on the laws from [and besides, you have underlined a part I quoted directly from the law].

Here's another way of looking at it: why should a team's attack stop for a defensive player's mistake? If the defensive player intercepts the pass, well and good, it's an offensive mistake to make a pass that is intercepted. If it's a knock-on, then the defensive player has made a mistake and the attacking team have to take the brunt of it, their attack is stopped stone dead.

I don't think we're necessarily of different views on this. My underlining went too far (literally), I just meant to underline all the 'stuff' which isn't in the law (hands up, down etc). I think it's ok (and a skill) to attempt an intercept - if that is what it is..i.e. an attempt at an intercept. In my view, with all the technology (recordings, camera angles etc) it can be judged fairly readily 'whether its and act of trying to catch the ball.... with a reasonable expectation of a regather''. In making this judgement if a player deflects it forward or downwards with the hand, there's almost zero (0.1%) chance of regather. If its deflected upwards to a degree where the ball spends much more time in the air theres much more likelihood of a regather. Making an intercept is as skill in itself, its about timing, skill at catching, regathering etc. sometimes it won't come off and will result in a knock-on. There's a difference between that and deliberately, and cynically deflecting the ball to prevent a pass completion.

[Laighin Break]

I think the law is clear. None of that is there anyway; unless I'm missing something. It seems clear to me; and clarified further with the short vid (World Rugby Laws app)

I was trying to illustrate how commentators are describing the reasoning behind awarding a scrum rather than a penalty – that's where most people watching the match are getting their information on the laws from [and besides, you have underlined a part I quoted directly from the law].

Here's another way of looking at it: why should a team's attack stop for a defensive player's mistake? If the defensive player intercepts the pass, well and good, it's an offensive mistake to make a pass that is intercepted. If it's a knock-on, then the defensive player has made a mistake and the attacking team have to take the brunt of it, their attack is stopped stone dead.

I don't think we're necessarily of different views on this. My underlining went too far (literally), I just meant to underline all the 'stuff' which isn't in the law (hands up, down etc). I think it's ok (and a skill) to attempt an intercept - if that is what it is..i.e. an attempt at an intercept. In my view, with all the technology (recordings, camera angles etc) it can be judged fairly readily 'whether its and act of trying to catch the ball.... with a reasonable expectation of a regather''. In making this judgement if a player deflects it forward or downwards with the hand, there's almost zero (0.1%) chance of regather. If its deflected upwards to a degree where the ball spends much more time in the air theres much more likelihood of a regather. Making an intercept is as skill in itself, its about timing, skill at catching, regathering etc. sometimes it won't come off and will result in a knock-on. There's a difference between that and deliberately, and cynically deflecting the ball to prevent a pass completion.

"all the technology (recordings, camera angles etc)" only applies to the professional game though. What about the vast majority of rugby that doesn't have the technology? They can hardly have different rules for the professional and amateur game, so they need to try to put in a blanket rule that works regardless.

In general I think it's a good distinction that going with one hand (unless it's gathered) is considered an intentional knock on. Having said that, I do think a yellow was harsh in this case as he was pretty close to regathering!

[Ruckedtobits]

As often before, Andy Farrell had a few very interesting things to say after the Maori game. His carefully chosen words after the victory made it plain that he considered that in the first Maori game, too many players played for their own ambitions, rather than those of the team. Getting that balance right is very difficult to achieve in a very competitive environment like the Irish Squad.

It speaks volumes for the entire coaching group that they have been able to bring all of yesterday's Squad to the same place on the same page. However, that doesn't mean that all of the Squad have ended up at the same level in the Depth Chart of Irish Rugby.

Partially due to opportunity, but also significantly down to performance, Kieran Treadwell and Niall Scannell have probably made the greatest progress in that regard. Many commentators would have considered that during the Irish Season, Treadwell had lagged behind Molony, Ahern, Klein, Thornbery and the departing Dillane. However, once Farrell had made in clear in announcing his Tour Party that Baird was chosen as a back-row player, and Henderson picked up a training injury before taking the pitch at all, Treadwell has advanced at every stage. He initially just filled the gap, but over his last three games, he has begun to fulfill his potential and perform on the pitch to the athletic potential he displayed as a youth.

It's often recounted that Treadwell was the English Schools 400m hurdler. Whether strictly true or not, it was certainly a very competitive environment with European, World & Olympic ambitions shared by many of the participants. However, eight long years later, Treadwell, now entering the prime years for a second-row forward, is emerging as a strong athletic player, not perhaps as naturally talented as Tagdh Beirne, but more than capable of discharging the workload required as a TH second-row because of his athletic S&C conditioning, his coached learnings under Dan McFarland, topped up by the intense personal Master Classes from Paul O'Connell. It's a big bonus for Ireland that he should emerge to his current status at this time and although he doesn't constitute a giant to the standards of international second-rows, he has the athleticism and conditioning to play in a manner similar to O'Connell as he gains confidence in his ability and place in the Squad.

Niall Scannell has followed a very different route to the edge of the Irish Squad. Ten seasons ago he was Captain of the Irish U.20's in the Junior World Cup. A Munster senior contract arrived in 2014 and he has already more than 100 caps for his Province. Joe Schmidt brought him into his Irish Squad in 2017 and he progressed well, in the shadow of Irish Captain Rory Best, accumulating 20 caps by the end of the Schmidt era. However, he didn't figure in Andy Farrell Squads and the arrival of the two new Leinster faces, Kelleher and Sheehan, appeared to mean his chances had gone. But an injury in training to the experienced Rob Herring brought Scannell from the beaches of Portugal to the very different climate of Dunedin.

Scannell took his chances in Wellington with both hands. A couple of characteristicsly wayward lineout throws somewhat marred his initial impact but at the end of a full 80 minute contribution, a rare event for any front-row, Scannell had clearly demonstrated that he has all the skills to displace the older and more experienced Rob Herring, sooner rather than later.

Scannell brings very strong carrying talents, aggressive tackling, skillful passing and a very good rugby brain to the Squad, coupled with a rich vein of experience from lots of big days. Unlike in England, France or S Africa, Irish rugby doesn't have the depth to merely move on to the next generation when a player gets injured or loses form. Scannell suffered both of those misfortunes since RWC2019, but it certainly looks like he could surface again in time for RWC23.

[LeinsterLeader]

Great Moment this

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/michael- ... oom-267147

[Ruckedtobits]

Somewhere, in the immediate aftermath of a high profile concussion incident and in the midst of the uber-intense Irish Squad prep for the Second Test, Jeremy Loughman found the time and coaching expertise to work on the basics of his tackling. The ability to 'tackle your weight' is one of the most important defensive skills for a forward. It's precisely the sort of detail that Denis Leamy has been doing with Leinster forwards (and backs) for the past three Seasons and Munster forwards will be the beneficiaries of his unique talents in this area as we speak. Whether it was Pete Wilkins or Simon Easterby or John Fogarty who worked the 'extras' with Loughman last week, it was invaluable and effective and may well have rescued his international career.

Loughman made three early hits on Maori yesterday morning. Two of them were near perfect and the recipients were dumped backwards and downwards as if hit by JVdF on a good day. Jeremy now weights close to or in excess of 19 St (121kg) and although a prop forward, both Tight and Loosehead, throughout his professional career, he was formerly a centre and still has the quick feet and soft hands of somebody who played his formative years in that position.

When you combine good footwork with the momentum that +120kg can generate, a very big impact is produced. In the modern scrum, the element of velocity has been hugely reduced since the 'hit' was eliminated. None the less, good footwork, or rather correct foot-positioning, combined with the essential bulk are the prerequisites for an international LHP and when that combination is intelligently applied, it results in the enhancement of the reputation of the man administering this impact and rapid reduction in confidence in the recipient, who will probably be forced to concede a penalty against his team.

In the first-half of the second game against the Maori, Loughman delivered on two of the key areas that Ireland require of a Prop forward. His scrum work was excellent and his direct opponent, Tyrel Lomax, conceded two first-half scrum penalties before departing on 56 minutes. His maul work, or rather the little of it which could be seen, was equally effective. His body position was low, his arms wrestled their way into strong driving position and the power of his bind was evident from the manner his direct Maori opponents were tied into position and prevented from "swimming" through the middle of the maul.

The final skill that Loughman demonstrated to the 'Excellent' standard was his line-out lifting. Whether it was on Treadwell, McCarthy or Coombes, he got them up to the top of their jump quickly and with stable support to allow them compete in the air. One Treadwell defensive steal in particular owes as much to the speed and power of the lift as it does to the agility of Treadwell's hands in the air. So Loughman is another Irish forward who is developing at precisely the time when opportunities are presenting themselves. It will not be a surprise if he is included in Farrell's Autumn Squads thus leading to the further chance to secure a spot for 2023.

Nothing is however guaranteed and 'Church' Healy is still showing the appetite and interest to be part of a third dominant Irish pack over his 15 year professional career. Also potential occupants of the No 17 jersey are Peter Dooley, Eoin O'Sullivan, Ed Byrne and Dave Kilcoyne. How each of these react in the first seven weeks of the new Season will indicate to Farrell et al whether they have unearthed a suitable 'finisher' to back up Andrew Porter's efforts to re-establish the potency of the Irish front-row at the top level of the game.

[OTT]

Great Moment this

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/michael- ... oom-267147

I’m not crying, you’re crying.

Hero

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Great Moment this

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/michael- ... oom-267147

Thanks for that, brilliant stuff!

[enby]

Anyone know why the attendance at the Maori match was so poor? Stadium looked less than half full. Are the locals not bothered with the Maori concept or do we remain unattractive box office in NZ? I can't imagine Thomond or Ravenhill or RDS not being sold out for an old fashioned Province v Touring Side mid week match

[leinsterforever]

As often before, Andy Farrell had a few very interesting things to say after the Maori game. His carefully chosen words after the victory made it plain that he considered that in the first Maori game, too many players played for their own ambitions, rather than those of the team. Getting that balance right is very difficult to achieve in a very competitive environment like the Irish Squad.

It speaks volumes for the entire coaching group that they have been able to bring all of yesterday's Squad to the same place on the same page. However, that doesn't mean that all of the Squad have ended up at the same level in the Depth Chart of Irish Rugby.

Partially due to opportunity, but also significantly down to performance, Kieran Treadwell and Niall Scannell have probably made the greatest progress in that regard. Many commentators would have considered that during the Irish Season, Treadwell had lagged behind Molony, Ahern, Klein, Thornbery and the departing Dillane. However, once Farrell had made in clear in announcing his Tour Party that Baird was chosen as a back-row player, and Henderson picked up a training injury before taking the pitch at all, Treadwell has advanced at every stage. He initially just filled the gap, but over his last three games, he has begun to fulfill his potential and perform on the pitch to the athletic potential he displayed as a youth.

It's sometimes forgotten that Treadwell was the English Schools 400m champion at age 18. A very competitive environment with European, World & Olympic ambitions shared by all the participants. However, eight long years later, Treadwell, now entering the prime years for a second-row forward, is emerging as a strong athletic player, not perhaps as naturally talented as Tagdh Beirne, but more than capable of discharging the workload required as a TH second-row because of his athletic S&C conditioning, his coached learnings under Dan McFarland, topped up by the intense personal Master Classes from Paul O'Connell. It's a big bonus for Ireland that he should emerge to his current status at this time and although he doesn't constitute a giant to the standards of international second-rows, he has the athleticism and conditioning to play in a manner similar to O'Connell as he gains confidence in his ability and place in the Squad.

Niall Scannell has followed a very different route to the edge of the Irish Squad. Ten seasons ago he was Captain of the Irish U.20's in the Junior World Cup. A Munster senior contract arrived in 2014 and he has already more than 100 caps for his Province. Joe Schmidt brought him into his Irish Squad in 2017 and he progressed well, in the shadow of Irish Captain Rory Best, accumulating 20 caps by the end of the Schmidt era. However, he didn't figure in Andy Farrell Squads and the arrival of the two new Leinster faces, Kelleher and Sheehan, appeared to mean his chances had gone. But an injury in training to the experienced Rob Herring brought Scannell from the beaches of Portugal to the very different climate of Dunedin.

Scannell took his chances in Wellington with both hands. A couple of characteristicsly wayward lineout throws somewhat marred his initial impact but at the end of a full 80 minute contribution, a rare event for any front-row, Scannell had clearly demonstrated that he has all the skills to displace the older and more experienced Rob Herring, sooner rather than later.

Scannell brings very strong carrying talents, aggressive tackling, skillful passing and a very good rugby brain to the Squad, coupled with a rich vein of experience from lots of big days. Unlike in England, France or S Africa, Irish rugby doesn't have the depth to merely move on to the next generation when a player gets injured or loses form. Scannell suffered both of those misfortunes since RWC2019, but it certainly looks like he could surface again in time for RWC23.

I can't see Treadwell's name anywhere in the lists of English Schools Athletics Championships results for 2014?

https://www.esaa.net/v2/2014/tf/nationa ... esults.pdf

[the spoofer]

Anyone know why the attendance at the Maori match was so poor? Stadium looked less than half full. Are the locals not bothered with the Maori concept or do we remain unattractive box office in NZ? I can't imagine Thomond or Ravenhill or RDS not being sold out for an old fashioned Province v Touring Side mid week match

About 12000, no idea why such a small crowd. Weather may have neem a factor.

[sunshiner1]

by enby

Anyone know why the attendance at the Maori match was so poor? Stadium looked less than half full. Are the locals not bothered with the Maori concept or do we remain unattractive box office in NZ? I can't imagine Thomond or Ravenhill or RDS not being sold out for an old fashioned Province v Touring Side mid week match

The first game was even worse. Without any knowledge I imagine covid restrictions and it been on a tuesday not helping but disappointing anyway.

[ronk]

As often before, Andy Farrell had a few very interesting things to say after the Maori game. His carefully chosen words after the victory made it plain that he considered that in the first Maori game, too many players played for their own ambitions, rather than those of the team. Getting that balance right is very difficult to achieve in a very competitive environment like the Irish Squad.

It speaks volumes for the entire coaching group that they have been able to bring all of yesterday's Squad to the same place on the same page. However, that doesn't mean that all of the Squad have ended up at the same level in the Depth Chart of Irish Rugby.

Partially due to opportunity, but also significantly down to performance, Kieran Treadwell and Niall Scannell have probably made the greatest progress in that regard. Many commentators would have considered that during the Irish Season, Treadwell had lagged behind Molony, Ahern, Klein, Thornbery and the departing Dillane. However, once Farrell had made in clear in announcing his Tour Party that Baird was chosen as a back-row player, and Henderson picked up a training injury before taking the pitch at all, Treadwell has advanced at every stage. He initially just filled the gap, but over his last three games, he has begun to fulfill his potential and perform on the pitch to the athletic potential he displayed as a youth.

It's sometimes forgotten that Treadwell was the English Schools 400m champion at age 18. A very competitive environment with European, World & Olympic ambitions shared by all the participants. However, eight long years later, Treadwell, now entering the prime years for a second-row forward, is emerging as a strong athletic player, not perhaps as naturally talented as Tagdh Beirne, but more than capable of discharging the workload required as a TH second-row because of his athletic S&C conditioning, his coached learnings under Dan McFarland, topped up by the intense personal Master Classes from Paul O'Connell. It's a big bonus for Ireland that he should emerge to his current status at this time and although he doesn't constitute a giant to the standards of international second-rows, he has the athleticism and conditioning to play in a manner similar to O'Connell as he gains confidence in his ability and place in the Squad.

Niall Scannell has followed a very different route to the edge of the Irish Squad. Ten seasons ago he was Captain of the Irish U.20's in the Junior World Cup. A Munster senior contract arrived in 2014 and he has already more than 100 caps for his Province. Joe Schmidt brought him into his Irish Squad in 2017 and he progressed well, in the shadow of Irish Captain Rory Best, accumulating 20 caps by the end of the Schmidt era. However, he didn't figure in Andy Farrell Squads and the arrival of the two new Leinster faces, Kelleher and Sheehan, appeared to mean his chances had gone. But an injury in training to the experienced Rob Herring brought Scannell from the beaches of Portugal to the very different climate of Dunedin.

Scannell took his chances in Wellington with both hands. A couple of characteristicsly wayward lineout throws somewhat marred his initial impact but at the end of a full 80 minute contribution, a rare event for any front-row, Scannell had clearly demonstrated that he has all the skills to displace the older and more experienced Rob Herring, sooner rather than later.

Scannell brings very strong carrying talents, aggressive tackling, skillful passing and a very good rugby brain to the Squad, coupled with a rich vein of experience from lots of big days. Unlike in England, France or S Africa, Irish rugby doesn't have the depth to merely move on to the next generation when a player gets injured or loses form. Scannell suffered both of those misfortunes since RWC2019, but it certainly looks like he could surface again in time for RWC23.

I can't see Treadwell's name anywhere in the lists of English Schools Athletics Championships results for 2014?

https://www.esaa.net/v2/2014/tf/nationa ... esults.pdf

He represented Surrey in the 400m hurdles as per this https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/ ... 11374.html

And this https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/feature ... econd-row/

[leinsterforever]

He represented Surrey in the 400m hurdles as per this https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/ ... 11374.html

And this https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/feature ... econd-row/

Yeah, I've heard a few mentions of him doing 400m hurdles. These things grow legs sometimes, though.

Might have been more 80m hurdles if this is anything to go by: https://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/ ... eid=208564

[Keith]

Anyone know why the attendance at the Maori match was so poor? Stadium looked less than half full. Are the locals not bothered with the Maori concept or do we remain unattractive box office in NZ? I can't imagine Thomond or Ravenhill or RDS not being sold out for an old fashioned Province v Touring Side mid week match

About 12000, no idea why such a small crowd. Weather may have neem a factor.

New Zealanders don't love rugby as much as we are lead to believe. Their super rugby attendances are awful and I've seen a few of their All Blacks games not sell out over the past few seasons. I really think it wouldn't take much for rugby in New Zealand to go in a similar direction to what happened in Aus. This is why it's crucial for the All Blacks to perseve that aura of invincibility. But to be honest that's already gone.

[Ruckedtobits]

It's unlikely that either Nick Timoney or Gavin Coombes were on the mental list of five new faces that Andy Farrell hoped for in naming his Irish Squad for this NZ Tour. Both have been fairly regular selections for international Squad duty over the past two seasons and it's probable that either would have picked up a handful of international caps in that period, if they played for anybody but Ireland.

Both players were strong contenders for MOTM nominations in yesterday's victory against the NZ Maori team. Both have received multiple such awards at Provincial level. Another common feature is their try-scoring prowess. Although their physiques and skill-sets are quite different, they share a number of other characteristics:

• 80 minute players reknowned for their stamina;
  Very strong ball-carriers, Coombes through power, Timoney through his pace;
  Under-rated line-out ability;
  
  Coombes has many similarities to the old Leicester and England captain, Dean Richards. He rumbles with enormous power, not quite as explosive as Billy Vunipola or Marcel Coetzee or as fast as Jack Conan or Kieran Reid, but very difficult to tackle or dispossess and skilled enough to be careful how he comes to ground in a position to optimise his presentation. Like Richards, he is bear-like in mauls with the strength to wrestle possession from opponents or smother them in a manner which prevents release and ensures a scrum turnover. He is probably a better lifter than jumper at line-out time and this is a particular skill which will prove even more valuable if he gets to start on the national team.
  
  I'd love to see him come off the bench into the second-row at some point. I've long held the view that scrum intensity is greatly reduced in the final quarter when the front-row battle of wills has been settled by attrition & the referee's opinion. This is the game time in which results are decided and Coombes presence and ball carrying nose for the try line could be vital attributes in claiming victories.
  
  Timoney brings a different collection of skills to the back-row. A former Seven's player with a Monaco series win in 2017 to his name, it's reputed that only two Ulster backs have bettered his time over 40m whilst he reigns supreme over 60m. He was always an excellent ball handler but in recent seasons he has increased his hand & arm strength to allow him become an even better poacher. At 6'2", he weights in close to 115kg (almost 18st) and tackles every ounce of that weight. He's most like David Wallace as a player and thus is probably the closest we have to a direct replacement for JVdF.
  
  And that's the greatest difficulty for these two players face, the quality of the competition. Despite the early retirement of Dan Leavy and the relative loss of form of Rhys Ruddock, the quartet of Josh Van der Flyer, Peter O'Mahony, Caelin Doris & Jack Conan present such a wide range of talents & strong chemistry between them, that Farrell will probably only look beyond them if injury intervenes.
  
  As they proved on Tuesday against the Maori, both Coombes & Timoney will produce their best as they grow in confidence as they increase their experience of the top level of the game. Farrell has to find the opportunities for these two to play for Ireland, either in November or during the 6 Nations. They're both ready for the experience and both have the ability to repay the investment in international game time, in spades

[kUD]

Anyone know why the attendance at the Maori match was so poor? Stadium looked less than half full. Are the locals not bothered with the Maori concept or do we remain unattractive box office in NZ? I can't imagine Thomond or Ravenhill or RDS not being sold out for an old fashioned Province v Touring Side mid week match

About 12000, no idea why such a small crowd. Weather may have neem a factor.

I was there. Weather was definitely a factor. It was a filthy day, really cold and wet; so the 5k or so walk up crowd didn't bother.

It wasn't the pricing. Ticketing was very good value in my view. NZ$50 for 1 adult & 1 child on the half way line. I think it was only $20 for the same deal at the ends.
I know at least 6 people with tickets that didn't go due to Covid isolation.

It was a typical Super Rugby attendance. I think it's just too easy for people who were interested to watch on TV.

[paddyor]

Enjoy them long posts RTB

[leinsterforever]

It's unlikely that either Nick Timoney or Gavin Coombes were on the mental list of five new faces that Andy Farrell hoped for in naming his Irish Squad for this NZ Tour. Both have been fairly regular selections for international Squad duty over the past two seasons and it's probable that either would have picked up a handful of international caps in that period, if they played for anybody but Ireland.

Both players were strong contenders for MOTM nominations in yesterday's victory against the NZ Maori team. Both have received multiple such awards at Provincial level. Another common feature is their try-scoring prowess. Although their physiques and skill-sets are quite different, they share a number of other characteristics:

• 80 minute players reknowned for their stamina;
  Very strong ball-carriers, Coombes through power, Timoney through his pace;
  Under-rated line-out ability;
  
  Coombes has many similarities to the old Leicester and England captain, Dean Richards. He rumbles with enormous power, not quite as explosive as Billy Vunipola or Marcel Coetzee or as fast as Jack Conan or Kieran Reid, but very difficult to tackle or dispossess and skilled enough to be careful how he comes to ground in a position to optimise his presentation. Like Richards, he is bear-like in mauls with the strength to wrestle possession from opponents or smother them in a manner which prevents release and ensures a scrum turnover. He is probably a better lifter than jumper at line-out time and this is a particular skill which will prove even more valuable if he gets to start on the national team.
  
  I'd love to see him come off the bench into the second-row at some point. I've long held the view that scrum intensity is greatly reduced in the final quarter when the front-row battle of wills has been settled by attrition & the referee's opinion. This is the game time in which results are decided and Coombes presence and ball carrying nose for the try line could be vital attributes in claiming victories.
  
  Timoney brings a different collection of skills to the back-row. A former Seven's player with a Monaco series win in 2017 to his name, it's reputed that only two Ulster backs have bettered his time over 40m whilst he reigns supreme over 60m. He was always an excellent ball handler but in recent seasons he has increased his hand & arm strength to allow him become an even better poacher. At 6'2", he weights in close to 115kg (almost 18st) and tackles every ounce of that weight. He's most like David Wallace as a player and thus is probably the closest we have to a direct replacement for JVdF.
  
  And that's the greatest difficulty for these two players face, the quality of the competition. Despite the early retirement of Dan Leavy and the relative loss of form of Rhys Ruddock, the quartet of Josh Van der Flyer, Peter O'Mahony, Caelin Doris & Jack Conan present such a wide range of talents & strong chemistry between them, that Farrell will probably only look beyond them if injury intervenes.
  
  As they proved on Tuesday against the Maori, both Coombes & Timoney will produce their best as they grow in confidence as they increase their experience of the top level of the game. Farrell has to find the opportunities for these two to play for Ireland, either in November or during the 6 Nations. They're both ready for the experience and both have the ability to repay the investment in international game time, in spades

Reigns supreme over 60m? Ahead of Baloucoune and Aaron Sexton?

[ronk]

Enjoy them long posts RTB

Agree. Normally I think of something else when I hear bear and maul in the same sentence.

[hugonaut]

Anyone know why the attendance at the Maori match was so poor? Stadium looked less than half full. Are the locals not bothered with the Maori concept or do we remain unattractive box office in NZ? I can't imagine Thomond or Ravenhill or RDS not being sold out for an old fashioned Province v Touring Side mid week match

About 12000, no idea why such a small crowd. Weather may have neem a factor.

New Zealanders don't love rugby as much as we are lead to believe. Their super rugby attendances are awful and I've seen a few of their All Blacks games not sell out over the past few seasons. I really think it wouldn't take much for rugby in New Zealand to go in a similar direction to what happened in Aus. This is why it's crucial for the All Blacks to perseve that aura of invincibility. But to be honest that's already gone.

In fairness, it looked like horrible weather and there's a test match on in the same venue at the weekend. Getting people out on a Tuesday night in mid-winter conditions is a big ask.