Tour to NZ 2022

[riocard911]

I have to say I thought the sin binning of the Maori wing for the 'deliberate' knock on seemed incredibly harsh, though I was delighted to get it. The touch judge wasn't convinced by it and nor was I. I couldn't really understand the question about 'could he regather the ball'. The player made an attempt to give himself a chance of regathering the ball, but his execution of that skill didn't enable him to do so. Does that make it a deliberate knock on? He clearly played the ball up into the air to try and re-gather.

I think Dickson had England's Brisbane match in the back of his mind, where the Aussie winger saw yellow and was even closer to regaining the ball than the Maori dude today and still saw yellow.

[OTT]

I have to say I thought the sin binning of the Maori wing for the 'deliberate' knock on seemed incredibly harsh, though I was delighted to get it. The touch judge wasn't convinced by it and nor was I. I couldn't really understand the question about 'could he regather the ball'. The player made an attempt to give himself a chance of regathering the ball, but his execution of that skill didn't enable him to do so. Does that make it a deliberate knock on? He clearly played the ball up into the air to try and re-gather.

I’m always of the opinion if you go one handed like that you catch it and score the try and you are the hero or you don’t and you stop a line break and get a yellow. I know it’s instinct to go for it but it’s the risk you run.

My view is probably outdated on this mind you.

[chrismcc]

Carbery came on as a temporary sub for Lowry, presumably HIA related. Lowry came back on.

Thanks. Looks like protecting carbury for Saturday for sure so.

[Logorrhea]

I’m always of the opinion if you go one handed like that you catch it and score the try and you are the hero or you don’t and you stop a line break and get a yellow. I know it’s instinct to go for it but it’s the risk you run.

My view is probably outdated on this mind you.

Nahh I'd agree with you there. Half the debate seems to be around branding, whether its a deliberate knock on or not. The reality is a one handed flap at the ball is a pretty risky play and for all the talk of intent, or whether it was upward or downward, the chances or gathering it are slim. Both incidents were yellows if you ask me.

[kUD]

Wonder will bench at 23 on Saturday.
With Ringrose out, Aki and Henshaw to start. McCloskey for the bench given his size, or Earls for experience? Or Larmour and move J10 to 12 of one of the centres goes down?

[Oldschool]

Excellent team performance and great win. Not as cohesive as they could be with more work together but lots of those guys have demonstrated why they were selected for this Tour and are now occupying the box seats in the train to RWC2023. Nothing guaranteed as yet but now others will have to display why they should go ahead in the depth chart.

First big match display for Treadwell and they were very quick to get him off and keep something in the locker for the weekend. Very impressed also by Jimmy O'Brien, McCloskey, Timoney, Coombes, Loughman and Scannell.

I thought we really 'protected' the bench men for Saturday and keeping Herring and Murray out of the fray could have put the victory at risk. Loughman & Frawley certainly put their hands up for bench spots in the future, but probably not on Saturday (Frawley played the full 80 today).

Irish Rugby has improved the Depth Chart and proved once again that confidence trumps most shortcomings, including experience.

Surely the experience gained in the first game had a bearing on this result.

[Ruckedtobits]

I have to say I thought the sin binning of the Maori wing for the 'deliberate' knock on seemed incredibly harsh, though I was delighted to get it. The touch judge wasn't convinced by it and nor was I. I couldn't really understand the question about 'could he regather the ball'. The player made an attempt to give himself a chance of regathering the ball, but his execution of that skill didn't enable him to do so. Does that make it a deliberate knock on? He clearly played the ball up into the air to try and re-gather.

I’m always of the opinion if you go one handed like that you catch it and score the try and you are the hero or you don’t and you stop a line break and get a yellow. I know it’s instinct to go for it but it’s the risk you run.

My view is probably outdated on this mind you.

+1

On the other hand, the penalty try award for Larmour's early tackle is ludicrous as the screen shot at precisely 45.00 mins on Sky broadcast demonstrates. Jimmy O'Brien is on his feet facing inwards at the MAB player and not obstructed in any way by Larmour from making a tackle within the 13m before the try line. Frawley is also in a position to tackle the MAB player, albeit 2m further away.. These refereeing decisions are becoming farcical. Fortunately, it didn't effect the ultimate result.

[the spoofer]

The commentary on the Penalty Try was interesting. They were arguing that Saturdays decision was correct as Sexton didn't pass the ball. Well he couldn't really as his intended target was sitting on the ground.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I have to say I thought the sin binning of the Maori wing for the 'deliberate' knock on seemed incredibly harsh, though I was delighted to get it. The touch judge wasn't convinced by it and nor was I. I couldn't really understand the question about 'could he regather the ball'. The player made an attempt to give himself a chance of regathering the ball, but his execution of that skill didn't enable him to do so. Does that make it a deliberate knock on? He clearly played the ball up into the air to try and re-gather.

I’m always of the opinion if you go one handed like that you catch it and score the try and you are the hero or you don’t and you stop a line break and get a yellow. I know it’s instinct to go for it but it’s the risk you run.

My view is probably outdated on this mind you.

I've never understood why going with one hand has any relevance, that's how you catch an intercept. Far far harder to try and catch one with both hands, just too awkward. To me it's usually very clear when someone is legitimately trying to catch it or not. I think this is one of those examples where World Rugby spotted a genuine issue (there was a spate of deliberate knock ons in the outside channels) and ruined a perfectly good defensive tactic. I haven't seen today's game yet btw so I'm not commenting on what happened.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The commentary on the Penalty Try was interesting. They were arguing that Saturdays decision was correct as Sexton didn't pass the ball. Well he couldn't really as his intended target was sitting on the ground.

I thought the same tbh and don't think Sexton held on because Ringrose was tackled. I don't think the officials mentioned that though so I assume it wasn't taken into account and should still have been a PT.

[desperado]

Lots of players had excellent games, today; but Niall Scannell has really performed so much better than I've seen this season for Munster. I thought he was excellent. On the PT I'd agree with RTBs view; 13m out with JOB (who's no slouch) both closer to the try line than the MAB, and facing/moving that direction. Thought the YC for the attempted intercept was harsh, it wasn't deliberate in my opinion, he didn't slap it down or level/forward; he made a genuine attempt to intercept by tipping it upwards and his execution/maybe conditions let him down - penalty only. I think Christophe Ridley agrees

[Xanthippe]

The law amendment that came in recently leaves no doubt - whether it's silly or not, if you go for a ball one handed and don't catch it you're getting yellow.

The one I was annoyed about was Prendergast - can't recall the last time I saw a yellow card for 'not back 10' on a quick penalty

[Oldschoolsocks]

The law amendment that came in recently leaves no doubt - whether it's silly or not, if you go for a ball one handed and don't catch it you're getting yellow.

The one I was annoyed about was Prendergast - can't recall the last time I saw a yellow card for 'not back 10' on a quick penalty

Was that not the reason for JRs Yellow Card on Saturday?

[ronk]

The law amendment that came in recently leaves no doubt - whether it's silly or not, if you go for a ball one handed and don't catch it you're getting yellow.

The one I was annoyed about was Prendergast - can't recall the last time I saw a yellow card for 'not back 10' on a quick penalty

James Ryan on Saturday. That was a bit harsh.

[Xanthippe]

The law amendment that came in recently leaves no doubt - whether it's silly or not, if you go for a ball one handed and don't catch it you're getting yellow.

The one I was annoyed about was Prendergast - can't recall the last time I saw a yellow card for 'not back 10' on a quick penalty

Was that not the reason for JRs Yellow Card on Saturday?

James Ryan on Saturday. That was a bit harsh.

Ryan's one on Saturday may have been the 'final nail' because we were already on a warning for repeat infringements but this morning's seemed to come from no-where. Maybe I'm wrong - I haven't had a chance to watch it back yet but at the time it definitely felt very much like we were being punished more harshly than the MABs were

[ronk]

Refs are funny sometimes and wildly strict about things. Deliberate knock ons being one. You sometimes see players called for not being back 10 and then the spot is 15m+ down the field because that's there the offence "happened".

Grabbing into players at the side of rucks, only ever called when it's used to create a gap at the ruck rather than space wider, or given to reverse it when there's a retaliation.

[hugonaut]

The law needs to change. It's too open to interpretation, abuse and controversy. Players and referees need to know where they stand.

Failed intercepts which result in a knock-on should be penalties. All this stuff about hands up, hands down, ball up, ball down, single hand, two hands, "a reasonable expectation that the player could regather possession" ... just get rid of it.

From there, you can apply other sanctions varying with the incident [i.e. yellow card, penalty try etc.]

[desperado]

The law amendment that came in recently leaves no doubt - whether it's silly or not, if you go for a ball one handed and don't catch it you're getting yellow.

The one I was annoyed about was Prendergast - can't recall the last time I saw a yellow card for 'not back 10' on a quick penalty

Was that not the reason for JRs Yellow Card on Saturday?

Ryan was pinged first for lifting the leg at (not his ) in the advancing AB rolling maul, he was then pinged soon after for, not rolling away, and then immediately tackling the quick tap without retreating/back 10. Peppa Pyper quoted "repeated infringements (by Ryan specifically). In fairness he deserved it, but if only Peppa was as consistent with all of the other infringements. He hardly, if at all lifted the AB leg. He did have his hand on the lads thigh. Is that enough? Thought the Prendergast YC was very harsh.

[sunshiner1]

Like it was stated earlier Prendergast got a yellow for Casey's misbehaviour.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The law needs to change. It's too open to interpretation, abuse and controversy. Players and referees need to know where they stand.

Failed intercepts which result in a knock-on should be penalties. All this stuff about hands up, hands down, ball up, ball down, single hand, two hands, "a reasonable expectation that the player could regather possession" ... just get rid of it.

From there, you can apply other sanctions varying with the incident [i.e. yellow card, penalty try etc.]

Why though? I love intercepts, shows great bravery and reading of the game from the defender, I really don't see why any laws should prevent them happening. In the vast majority of cases it's easy to spot when it's a deliberate slap down.

Was it you who mentioned that a lot of dropped balls are immediately pinged for being knocked on? Whoever it was it's something that drives me mad too and I'd see this the same way. If you're making a legitimate attempt to catch it then I can't fathom why it should be a penalty. It's not like it's rampant and it's not a dangerous act that needs to be stamped out. I'd hate for defenders to turn into robots who just get back in the line and are taken through the phases. We already see that at times at the breakdown when players are afraid to try and pinch a ball that's wide open. I hate that sh!t, give the players some freedom to play outside the systems.