Canada Test 12/11/16, 19:15

leinsterforever · Post by **leinsterforever** » November 6th, 2016, 2:18 am

Some squad management will surely be needed with four Tests instead of three this Autumn. Joe will probably be working out who to play versus NZ and Oz and working backwards from that.

My guess at a team:

1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. Finlay Bealham
4. Ultan Dillane
5. Billy Holland
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jack Conan
9. Kieran Marmion
10. Joey Carbery
11. Keith Earls
12. Luke Marshall
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Craig Gilroy
15. Jared Payne

16. James Tracy
17. Dave Kilcoyne/Peter Dooley/Kyle McCall*
18. John Ryan
19. Donnacha Ryan
20. Josh van der Flier
21. Luke McGrath
22. Paddy Jackson
23. Tiernan O'Halloran

Rory Scannell would be the perfect fit for jersey 22 if Jackson doesn't play

*Kilcoyne would be clear third-choice atm, but would they leave him with Munster for the Maori game, and have a look at anther option? Probably not - I'm just speculating here. It would be wise imo to call someone up anyway cos it would be a lot to ask of Healy and McGrath to cover all four games between them

artaneboy · Post by **artaneboy** » November 6th, 2016, 9:11 am

Michael Bent is as entitled to a bench spot at 17 there as any of the other candidates. I expect he'll get it too. I'd also definitely have Mike Mac in the row instead of Holland.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gleesonisgod · Post by **gleesonisgod** » November 6th, 2016, 12:02 pm

leinsterforever wrote:Some squad management will surely be needed with four Tests instead of three this Autumn. Joe will probably be working out who to play versus NZ and Oz and working backwards from that.

My guess at a team:

1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. Finlay Bealham
4. Ultan Dillane
5. Billy Holland
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jack Conan
9. Kieran Marmion
10. Joey Carbery
11. Keith Earls
12. Luke Marshall
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Craig Gilroy
15. Jared Payne

16. James Tracy
17. Dave Kilcoyne/Peter Dooley/Kyle McCall*
18. John Ryan
19. Donnacha Ryan
20. Josh van der Flier
21. Luke McGrath
22. Paddy Jackson
23. Tiernan O'Halloran

Rory Scannell would be the perfect fit for jersey 22 if Jackson doesn't play

*Kilcoyne would be clear third-choice atm, but would they leave him with Munster for the Maori game, and have a look at anther option? Probably not - I'm just speculating here. It would be wise imo to call someone up anyway cos it would be a lot to ask of Healy and McGrath to cover all four games between them

He won't do as dramatic a change as that. He never does. Kearney will probably play 15 and Heaslip will maybe captain from 8. VdF i suspect will also start. Maybe even Henshaw? You have to keep a few key positions the same.

TerenureJim · Post by **TerenureJim** » November 6th, 2016, 12:27 pm

Bench move to starting positions and some players with knocks get rested while new prospects get blooded, this will be used as a good run out to build for the next two games. Hope we see a full house for the match and for the Maori game. Dare I say it are the good times coming back to Irish rugby after a few knocks due to RWC fatigue at both national and provincial level.

leinsterforever · Post by **leinsterforever** » November 6th, 2016, 4:52 pm

gleesonisgod wrote:He won't do as dramatic a change as that. He never does. Kearney will probably play 15 and Heaslip will maybe captain from 8. VdF i suspect will also start. Maybe even Henshaw? You have to keep a few key positions the same.

I have no doubt that Heaslip could play 4 tests on 4 consecutive weekends, but will he perform optimally against NZ and Oz with the extra game in his legs? I could see one of Conan, Leavy or Reidy being called up for Murphy. I suppose Zebo's workload won't be as heavy with Earls back available, so maybe he won't need to be rested and could be 23, or he might start at fullback with Payne benching. That's probably more likely actually than O'Halloran getting picked from outside the squad

artaneboy wrote:Michael Bent is as entitled to a bench spot at 17 there as any of the other candidates. I expect he'll get it too. I'd also definitely have Mike Mac in the row instead of Holland.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Holland is in the squad and McCarthy isn't, though.

Since he's been playing on the other side of the scrum, it's hard to tell exactly where Bent is in the loosehead pecking order. It would be close, but, just looking at the Leinster options, I think Dooley would be ahead. Kilcoyne still doesn't convince in the scrum, so it would be no harm in my opinion to have a look at someone who is currently further down the depth chart in the hope that he becomes a better option in the not too distant future

CiaranIrl · Post by **CiaranIrl** » November 6th, 2016, 5:00 pm

We could see a POM, SOB, Stander back row I reckon. Furlong needs the experience I'd say. I can imagine the rest of the pack getting the week off. Of the backs, might be just Henshaw and Zebo will start.

simonokeeffe · Post by **simonokeeffe** » November 6th, 2016, 9:21 pm

I think we will see the wholesale changes, tough game (as Jamie said to the ref

) plus the travel then another two hard games back to back

not to grind an axe but think we're more likely to see RK at 15 than Payne as he hasnt played as much this season and Payne seemed have the heavier toil

Ruckedtobits · Post by **Ruckedtobits** » November 7th, 2016, 7:54 am

Think its possible that Joe may add to Squad today.

sunshiner1 · Post by **sunshiner1** » November 7th, 2016, 9:42 am

leinsterforever wrote:

My guess at a team:

1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. Finlay Bealham
4. Ultan Dillane
5. Billy Holland
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jack Conan
9. Kieran Marmion
10. Joey Carbery
11. Keith Earls
12. Luke Marshall
13. Garry Ringrose
14. Craig Gilroy
15. Jared Payne

16. James Tracy
17. Dave Kilcoyne/Peter Dooley/Kyle McCall*
18. John Ryan
19. Donnacha Ryan
20. Josh van der Flier
21. Luke McGrath
22. Paddy Jackson
23. Tiernan O'Halloran

I like your team but I'd have Payne nowhere near that squad. He needs to be wrapped in cotton wool for the next NZ test. I'd put TOH at 15 and give Sweetnam, Niyi or Kelleher a chance at 23.

Fireworks · Post by **Fireworks** » November 7th, 2016, 10:52 am

Before guessing at a squad it would be interesting to get an updated position on the injuries. Murphy is out but how is Sexton and who else picked up knocks that only showed up after the adrenaline wore off.

simonokeeffe · Post by **simonokeeffe** » November 7th, 2016, 11:18 am

Fireworks wrote:Before guessing at a squad it would be interesting to get an updated position on the injuries. Murphy is out but how is Sexton and who else picked up knocks that only showed up after the adrenaline wore off.

Would be good to know. Doubt Sexton wouldve played aminute anyway though

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » November 7th, 2016, 1:15 pm

Given the travel involved for the NZ game it's a fair bet that only the un/barely used bench players will take any part in the Canada game.
The squad to play NZ the following week will be working on that game this week.

Sent from myMobile using Keypad.

cormac · Post by **cormac** » November 7th, 2016, 4:09 pm

Kilcoyne, Adeolokun, O'Halloran, Leavy, O'Donoghue and Sweetnam all called into the Ireland squad.

Ruckedtobits · Post by **Ruckedtobits** » November 7th, 2016, 5:30 pm

Adding this group of players is very interesting as they will (probably) now be in Camp in Carton till end of match v Oz and thereby be involved in all aspects of preparation for not only the next three games, but also the 6N. That's how Joe builds a Squad.

There maybe some squeals that some are deprived of opportunity v Maoris or Pro12 rest time, but that's the level of commitment necessary to prepare National team.

Not all will be there to run in an Irish XV either, some of those called up will have been picked to give them a sense of what's involved in being in National Squad and also to act specific roles in NZ or Oz opposition teams. The homework for such opposed sessions is reputed to be seriously arduous and JS expects each opponent to be mimiced perfectly.

Leavy & Sweetnam in particular must be delighted with call-up which must be based almost exclusively on performances since Sept.

neiliog93 · Post by **neiliog93** » November 7th, 2016, 6:07 pm

Agree with most of that team but with the new announcements it might look more like this:

1.Healy 2.S.Cronin 3.Bealham

4.Dillane 5.Holland

6.Leavy 8.POM 7.SOB

9.Marmion 10.Carberry 12.Marshall 13.Ringrose 14.Earls

11.Gilroy 15.Olding/O'Halloran

16.Tracy 17.Kilcoyne 18.J.Ryan 19.D.Ryan 20.O'Donoghue 21.L.McGrath 22.Jackson 23.Olding/O'Halloran

simonokeeffe · Post by **simonokeeffe** » November 7th, 2016, 7:20 pm

Olding isnt in the squad so TOH going to be there instead

BIg call/selection is where the backrowers start. Youd imagine he wants POM and SOB in their regular positions but JOD the closest to a specialist 8 in there now (even if hes too light at present to be a genuine/regular international

and Joe has spoken highly of JOD before and rightly so. JVDF may be due a rest too as he played 60

so my guess is a 6 7 8 of POM SOB JOD with possibly Leavy on the bench

munster#1 · Post by **munster#1** » November 7th, 2016, 7:24 pm

Absolutely delighted for the 3 Munster lads that have been added, all 3 have been in great form this season.

Of the 3, it's hard not to see sweetnam as a potential star.
He has all the qualities that Joe seems to look for in a winger, and is one of the best in the game under a high ball.

Jack is another with massive potential, but is unfortunately behind 2 incredible players at provincial level, so his international career is likely to stall for a few years yet.

Ruckedtobits · Post by **Ruckedtobits** » November 7th, 2016, 11:26 pm

simonokeeffe wrote:Olding isnt in the squad so TOH going to be there instead

BIg call/selection is where the backrowers start. Youd imagine he wants POM and SOB in their regular positions but JOD the closest to a specialist 8 in there now (even if hes too light at present to be a genuine/regular international and Joe has spoken highly of JOD before and rightly so. JVDF may be due a rest too as he played 60

so my guess is a 6 7 8 of POM SOB JOD with possibly Leavy on the bench

+1.
With you in regard to JO'D whom Joe has name checked on a couple of occasions and definitely sees him and Conan as his next generation of No 8s. CJ would at present be the automatic replacement if anything happened to Jamie but 3-4 years from now CJ will be totally a No 6 and the mid-20s options for 8 will be the lads.

The emotional and physical drain of Sat night will be the biggest challenge now for JS, although it's possible that he and his fellow Coaches are treating the entire month akin to a rehearsal of the last four weeks of a world cup - four in a row with a Squad of limited numbers.

In order to keep the momentum and motivation at training, he has to seriously think about Jackson, who earned the right in SA in the summer to expect a start against Canada and bench against NZ. He has missed the latter but should still get the former.

Donn Ryan had an extraordinary game against NZ. Ryan has real pedigree and with his current motivation and fitness, he is a top-class international 2nd row well beyond a place-keeper. Therefore, Holland and Dillane or Henderson could start on Sat and form the core of a front five with Kilcoyne, Cronin & Bealham or Ryan. Leavy replaces Murphy in Squad and possibly starts alongside O'Donoghue and O'Mahony, who Captains the side. SO'B might be used to produce 40 mins of impact as JS tries to upspeed Leavy as a Squad member to fully replace Jordi Murphy

Marmion and Jackson seem likely half-backs with Marshall and Ringrose at centre and a back three of O'Halloran, Adelolukun & Earls, although Gilroy may get the nod on right wing. That's a group with lots of skill and sufficient experience to respect and then beat Canada, whilst also warming up the Aviva for the following two Saturdays.

Laighin Break · Post by **Laighin Break** » November 8th, 2016, 8:50 am

munster#1 wrote:Absolutely delighted for the 3 Munster lads that have been added, all 3 have been in great form this season.

Of the 3, it's hard not to see sweetnam as a potential star.
He has all the qualities that Joe seems to look for in a winger, and is one of the best in the game under a high ball.

Jack is another with massive potential, but is unfortunately behind 2 incredible players at provincial level, so his international career is likely to stall for a few years yet.

He's no Adam Byrne though

Oldschool · Post by **Oldschool** » November 8th, 2016, 10:35 am

Ruckedtobits wrote:
simonokeeffe wrote:Olding isnt in the squad so TOH going to be there instead

BIg call/selection is where the backrowers start. Youd imagine he wants POM and SOB in their regular positions but JOD the closest to a specialist 8 in there now (even if hes too light at present to be a genuine/regular international and Joe has spoken highly of JOD before and rightly so. JVDF may be due a rest too as he played 60

so my guess is a 6 7 8 of POM SOB JOD with possibly Leavy on the bench
+1.
With you in regard to JO'D whom Joe has name checked on a couple of occasions and definitely sees him and Conan as his next generation of No 8s. CJ would at present be the automatic replacement if anything happened to Jamie but 3-4 years from now CJ will be totally a No 6 and the mid-20s options for 8 will be the lads.

The emotional and physical drain of Sat night will be the biggest challenge now for JS, although it's possible that he and his fellow Coaches are treating the entire month akin to a rehearsal of the last four weeks of a world cup - four in a row with a Squad of limited numbers.

In order to keep the momentum and motivation at training, he has to seriously think about Jackson, who earned the right in SA in the summer to expect a start against Canada and bench against NZ. He has missed the latter but should still get the former.

Donn Ryan had an extraordinary game against NZ. Ryan has real pedigree and with his current motivation and fitness, he is a top-class international 2nd row well beyond a place-keeper. Therefore, Holland and Dillane or Henderson could start on Sat and form the core of a front five with Kilcoyne, Cronin & Bealham or Ryan. Leavy replaces Murphy in Squad and possibly starts alongside O'Donoghue and O'Mahony, who Captains the side. SO'B might be used to produce 40 mins of impact as JS tries to upspeed Leavy as a Squad member to fully replace Jordi Murphy

Marmion and Jackson seem likely half-backs with Marshall and Ringrose at centre and a back three of O'Halloran, Adelolukun & Earls, although Gilroy may get the nod on right wing. That's a group with lots of skill and sufficient experience to respect and then beat Canada, whilst also warming up the Aviva for the following two Saturdays.

On 8 cover for Jamie it's very likely Joe will try to fast track JOH. He'll surely want to keep Stander at 6 although Leavy will come into the reckoning for 6 by next season if he keeps playing the way he is.
A great set of problems for Joe et al.

Babbling 'brook