Ireland v Italy 6Ns 2016

[Fred Funk]

that's a load of me ballix

negativity

That's the piece I was responding to.

Sorry I meant attacking rather than positive.

[Hacker G]

If McCloskey has been dropped and Henshaw [Connacht] and Payne [Ulster] are the centres, that's an indication of Leinster bias? What an absolutely batsh*t conclusion.[/quote]

Ah settle down. I'm talking about having out of form players such as Madigan and McFadden on the bench instead of in form alternatives from Ulster.

[Peg Leg]

Sorry I meant attacking rather than positive.

82 hail mary's and the our father backwards in latin should see you back on the right path.

[flustered]

Surely not McFadden on the bench! WTF does he offer for impact off the bench, covers wing and centre (in some peoples opinion), sure if Madigan is there he covers centre, McCloskey for the bench surely (I would start him with Payne at 15 and Zebo the sub outside back). Dillane ahead of Ryan, not bad for this game I don't think, but would reverse that again for Scotland, the Gray brothers would be a different proposition.

[Peg Leg]

Have to say, I prefer a player that is excellent in their position than a versatile player on the bench. Our whole backs division are extremely versatile:
RH: IC/OC/FB
JP: IC/OC/FB
AT: IC/W
KE: W/OC
SZ: W/FB
RK: FB/W
IM: OH/IC (the IC is null and void if you ask me because Sexton is coming off @ 60mins)

There is no harm in doing one of the following:
Play McCloskey @ IC, Henshaw @ OC, Payne @ FB with Zeebs/Trimble
Play Henshaw @ IC, Payne @OC, Zeebs @ FB with McCloskey/Ringrose on the bench

[simonokeeffe]

Not to be too harsh but McFadden doesnt even make a full strength Leinster 23 (for me) any more

They want back 3 cover, Madigan & Payne cover 15, Zebo then covers wing, McCloskey totally viable at 23 (albeit because Kearney is out)

[CiaranIrl]

If McCloskey has been dropped and Henshaw [Connacht] and Payne [Ulster] are the centres, that's an indication of Leinster bias? What an absolutely batsh*t conclusion.

Ah settle down. I'm talking about having out of form players such as Madigan and McFadden on the bench instead of in form alternatives from Ulster.[/quote]

So even though the starting team from 11-15 is 2 Munster, 2 Ulster and 1 Connacht players, you think it's Leinster bias because his bench has two Leinster players on it?

Anyone with an iota of sense will realise it's because of their versatility, not their province. You might not agree with it, but that's blatantly what's happening.

[Flash Gordon]

If McCloskey has been dropped and Henshaw [Connacht] and Payne [Ulster] are the centres, that's an indication of Leinster bias? What an absolutely batsh*t conclusion.

Ah settle down. I'm talking about having out of form players such as Madigan and McFadden on the bench instead of in form alternatives from Ulster.

So even though the starting team from 11-15 is 2 Munster, 2 Ulster and 1 Connacht players, you think it's Leinster bias because his bench has two Leinster players on it?

Anyone with an iota of sense will realise it's because of their versatility, not their province. You might not agree with it, but that's blatantly what's happening.[/quote]

The attempt to manage the perception that provincial loyalty superseded what's best for Ireland held back the national team for years. Joe is ruthless in his application of what he believes is right for his teams to win and I honestly don't believe at all that he cares where players come from rather that they execute his plan. As you say the Madigan call is all about versatility and people may rightly point out that specialist players offer more but the reality of Ireland's game and physical size is that we have shipped more injuries recently than we have historically and versatilty is important. I think at the moment that Jackson is a better outhalf than Madigan but Jackson can only play outhalf, it's really that simple in my opinion! Same goes for Gilroy and Healy.

[Fred Funk]

I suppose the answer is Ireland needs to find a winger who can both attack with pace and defend.

[neiliog93]

Earls and Zebo fit the bill to some extent, and Fitzgerald when fit. But they're not at Healy/Gilroy levels.

[Dave Cahill]

Earls and Zebo fit the bill to some extent, and Fitzgerald when fit. But they're not at Healy/Gilroy levels.

Healy and Gilroy can't defend though, so they're not an option at international level.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't think defence is a glaring weakness for Gilroy but he does have a lot of little weaknesses that add up. He's someone who I reckon would thrive under Joe if given the chance, but isn't improving his flaws well enough to earn that chance. Pity.

[simonokeeffe]

Italy: David Odiete; Leonardo Sarto, Michele Campagnaro, Gonzalo Garcia, Mattia Bellini; Edoardo Padovani, Guglielmo Palazzani; Andrea Lovotti, Davide Giazzon, Lorenzo Cittadini; George Biagi, Marco Fuser; Francesco Minton, Alessandro Zanni, Sergio Parisse (capt).

Replacements: Oliviero Fabiani, Matteo Zanusso, Dario Chistolini, Quintin Geldenhuys, Abraham Steyn, Alberto Lucchese, Kelly Haimona, Luke McLean

Ghiraldini and Gori out

[Peg Leg]

Ireland:
15 Simon Zebo,
14 Andrew Trimble,
13 Jared Payne,
12 Robbie Henshaw,
11 Keith Earls,
10 Jonathan Sexton,
9 Conor Murray,
8 Jamie Heaslip,
7 Josh van der Flier,
6 CJ Stander,
5 Devin Toner,
4 Donnacha Ryan,
3 Mike Ross,
2 Rory Best (c),
1 Jack McGrath
Replacements: 16 Sean Cronin, 17 Cian Healy, 18 Nathan White, 19 Ultan Dillane, 20 Rhys Ruddock, 21 Kieran Marmion, 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Fergus McFadden

[jimbobjoe]

Safe to say I'm not feeling very enthused about this game.

[Twist]

The way people are taking the win for granted concerns me. Remember the World Cup?

[rooster]

I really don't get why Joe is so intent on keeping Payne at 13 but a lot of people seem to be ignoring the fact that Zebo is an exciting option at fullback too.

I totally understand that Payne is a great defender at 13 and I can get behind that logic, but not so much when Rob is missing and we're playing Italy. I think that's poor planning actually. Yes we want to win the game but I don't think McCloskey and Henshaw would be risky in the slightest and I think we've become overly reliant on Payne in the centre. Fast forward to South Africa in the summer or the All Blacks in November and if he's injured then I'd much rather we had played McCloskey and Henshaw together against Italy and Scotland when we had the chance.

It is a strange one why Payne is always seen as a 13 when he has actually only played 2 matches for Ulster this season and both were at 15 where he was excellent.

[jimbobjoe]

We won't lose. Italy won't score more than 15 points. Ireland might just about reach 30.

My prediction - Dire first half with Ireland taking 3-5 penalty opportunities. Two Irish tries in the 3rd quarter will mean Ireland sit on the rest of the game allowing Italy to rally and narrow the deficit a bit. Size of win doesn't matter as we can't gain any ranking points - it'll be a case of ensuring no injuries for the Scotland game.

[hugonaut]

Earls and Zebo fit the bill to some extent, and Fitzgerald when fit. But they're not at Healy/Gilroy levels.

Healy is a really weak defender, and that's in the Pro12. In his last three games he's made 4 tackles, missed 7.

@ Edinburgh: made 3, missed 3 [source: http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstats ... gue=270557 ]
vs Ospreys: made 0, missed 0 [source: http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstats ... gue=270557 ]
@ Zebre: made 1, missed 4 [source: http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/playerstats ... gue=270557 ]

People give Gilroy stick about his poor defending, but he's a lot more sure of himself than Healy. With that said, both players are in form with the ball in hand.

[nc6000]

The way people are taking the win for granted concerns me. Remember the World Cup?

I do indeed. I was at that game and we were lucky to get the win.