6 Nations (Women)

[naraic]

Unfortunately things haven’t improved for this tournament in the next game either. England just shunted the Scotland scrum back like they were children (on Scotlands put in). England currently lead 43-0 with 30 minutes still to go

Suddenly there is a chasm between Ireland and Wales....WALES. Last time in 2021 when we played them there we won 45-0!
And finishing in the Top 3 of this 6N is so important (https://www.world.rugby/news/624272).
We will spend the next 2 years, at least, in the 2nd division.

I think the goal might be to avoid WXV 3rd division. I wouldn't be too unhappy if we end up in the 2nd division.

[Dexter]

Unfortunately things haven’t improved for this tournament in the next game either. England just shunted the Scotland scrum back like they were children (on Scotlands put in). England currently lead 43-0 with 30 minutes still to go

Suddenly there is a chasm between Ireland and Wales....WALES. Last time in 2021 when we played them there we won 45-0!
And finishing in the Top 3 of this 6N is so important (https://www.world.rugby/news/624272).
We will spend the next 2 years, at least, in the 2nd division.

I think the goal might be to avoid WXV 3rd division. I wouldn't be too unhappy if we end up in the 2nd division.

Let's be honest, 2nd division is their level at the moment. They can build from there, it's not such a bad thing.

[whiscash02]

https://t.co/gj6OSGzcwf

Pretty damning read on the IRFU’s handling of women’s rugby

[ronk]

https://t.co/gj6OSGzcwf

Pretty damning read on the IRFU’s handling of women’s rugby

It stands out how many people are willing to go on and off record to put the boot in, and how flimsy some of the allegations are. Someone well known made a comment at a dinner that most people didn't hear, not that big a deal. A nutrionist refused protein supplements, while a full time nutrionist has since been appointed. The commitee were appointed rather than elected. A player with a €60k career didn't want to go pro, yes we saw the same thing when the men's game went pro. This is all weak and comes across as toxic. They need to work on growing the game and at least giving changes a chance, not biting the hand of the IRFU.

Men's rugby is taking cuts, painful cuts, at a time when Women's rugby is seeing a huge funding increase. That's not to say that there aren't grievances, but they won't get far if they don't start rowing in the same direction.

[FtD]

https://t.co/gj6OSGzcwf

Pretty damning read on the IRFU’s handling of women’s rugby

Depends on your definition of damning.

I think it reads as a series of anecdotes, that don't add up to a whole lot.

Without naming the alickadoo who made the supposed comment, I don't attach much to it.

The bulk of the gobbiness comes from the Railway Union DoR, when you could put forward an argument that they're at least a significant part of the problem in Irish Women's rugby, despite the huge amount of players they've brought through.

[the spoofer]

https://t.co/gj6OSGzcwf

Pretty damning read on the IRFU’s handling of women’s rugby

Depends on your definition of damning.

I think it reads as a series of anecdotes, that don't add up to a whole lot.

Without naming the alickadoo who made the supposed comment, I don't attach much to it.

The bulk of the gobbiness comes from the Railway Union DoR, when you could put forward an argument that they're at least a significant part of the problem in Irish Women's rugby, despite the huge amount of players they've brought through.

The leaks about how mean the IRFU are always seem to coincide with some really awful performances.

[wixfjord]

https://t.co/gj6OSGzcwf

Pretty damning read on the IRFU’s handling of women’s rugby

Depends on your definition of damning.

I think it reads as a series of anecdotes, that don't add up to a whole lot.

Without naming the alickadoo who made the supposed comment, I don't attach much to it.

The bulk of the gobbiness comes from the Railway Union DoR, when you could put forward an argument that they're at least a significant part of the problem in Irish Women's rugby, despite the huge amount of players they've brought through.

I read it and thought the same I must say.

When I saw 'major investigation' I expected a bit more than a few anecdotal quotes.

Some of the stuff in there isn't great, but it's hardly scandalous stuff and the real issues seem to be either historic or based on IRFU not being able to offer big enough salaries to get players to go full time.

[wixfjord]

The navy shorts thing is a strange one to bring up.

First of all, surely it's being done with the player's benefit in mind, as has been done by countless other women's teams in a wide range of sports.

But secondly, the IRFU can do what they want with the playing kit. They can make it orange if they wish.

[blockhead]

If I were in the IRFU I'd be down in RSA for the next 2 weeks. The backlash in the press (probably already written) when Italy tear Ireland a new one at the weekend will be fierce.

[fourthirtythree]

The navy shorts thing is a strange one to bring up.

First of all, surely it's being done with the player's benefit in mind, as has been done by countless other women's teams in a wide range of sports.

But secondly, the IRFU can do what they want with the playing kit. They can make it orange if they wish.

When it came up it was presented as coming from the players...

Torygraph gonna Torygraph, they found one arsehole at an event who disagreed with the actual point of the event, but who doesn't seem to have had anything to do with the event fortunately, and they ran with that as their damning quote.

After attempting to sabotage the Irish men's teams, the Nigels and their mouthpieces are moving on to another front to try and get even. The answer is staring you in the face, but being oligarchs and the Torygraph you are structurally incapable of seeing it: not for profit.

The Irish women's game will take a decade and lots of money to fix, It will take the money generated from the men's game, and the success of the men's team, to drive player numbers and eventually success. It's gonna be a long wait though. Nobody plays it in Ireland.

[the spoofer]

The navy shorts thing is a strange one to bring up.

First of all, surely it's being done with the player's benefit in mind, as has been done by countless other women's teams in a wide range of sports.

But secondly, the IRFU can do what they want with the playing kit. They can make it orange if they wish.

When it came up it was presented as coming from the players...

Torygraph gonna Torygraph, they found one arsehole at an event who disagreed with the actual point of the event, but who doesn't seem to have had anything to do with the event fortunately, and they ran with that as their damning quote.

After attempting to sabotage the Irish men's teams, the Nigels and their mouthpieces are moving on to another front to try and get even. The answer is staring you in the face, but being oligarchs and the Torygraph you are structurally incapable of seeing it: not for profit.

The Irish women's game will take a decade and lots of money to fix, It will take the money generated from the men's game, and the success of the men's team, to drive player numbers and eventually success. It's gonna be a long wait though. Nobody plays it in Ireland.

The same arsehole from a Junior club that plays down the divisions in mens Junior rugby but found a sponsor to pour cash into a womens team. They are a shell of a club and are looked on as such by all those with a real interest in rugby.

[Dave Cahill]

I think whoever described it as damning hasn't really been following Irish womens rugby. Theres nothing in that article that isn't old news, reheated and given a stir for jollies. I'd probably be one of the most critical people on this site of how the IRFU treats female players and the womens game, but when I read the article all I thought was 'meh'.

[the spoofer]

I think whoever described it as damning hasn't really been following Irish womens rugby. Theres nothing in that article that isn't old news, reheated and given a stir for jollies. I'd probably be one of the most critical people on this site of how the IRFU treats female players and the womens game, but when I read the article all I thought was 'meh'.

I think we all know who is pushing this line and it's not Iarnrod Eireann.

[Ruckedtobits]

Anybody, particularly anyone playing or promoting Women's Rugby in Ireland, might try to develop a better sense of a good communication programme.

The Telegraph piece, including the source, is counter productive as that particular outlet have been consistently critical of most things "Irish" for many years past. If the complaints are genuine and realistic, the Irish Captain should be asked to communicate them formally to the Irish Women's Manager.

[hugonaut]

I think whoever described it as damning hasn't really been following Irish womens rugby. Theres nothing in that article that isn't old news, reheated and given a stir for jollies. I'd probably be one of the most critical people on this site of how the IRFU treats female players and the womens game, but when I read the article all I thought was 'meh'.

I had the same reaction DC. I try and take any argument on its merits, and this seemed thin.

I think the IRFU are certainly trying harder now to get things right. There has been a number of new roles created and a number of changes in personnel within the last year:

• Gill McDarby has been appointed as Head of Women's Performance & Pathways

• Alana Gattinger appointed as Womens XV National Programme Manager

• Emma Brennan appointed as Performance Nutritionist, Womens National XV

• A new coaching team of Greg McWilliams, Niamh Briggs, Denis Fogarty & John McKee appointed for the Womens XV National team

• 43no. pro contracts created

• Eight new roles being created [2no. per province - 1no. athletic development, 1no. talent] with regard to talent identification and training https://www.irishrugby.ie/job_vacancies ... ent-squad/

They're behind where they could/should be, but they're making strides in the right direction and committing resources to the project.

Their previous programme was heavily focused on Womens 7s as opposed to Womens XVs, and to be frank I could see the argument for that. We have very low participation numbers in womens' rugby and are in competition with – and lagging a long way behind – three other field sports in football, camogie and soccer.

The union were able to put together an offering that offered a trifecta of opportunities for elite female athletes: a chance to be a pro athlete in Ireland; a chance to be an Olympian; a chance to travel around the world to pursue your sport at a high level in great venues.

As it turns out, it doesn't really seem to be in line with what most women who play and follow rugby in this country were looking for. But the union have always been a top-down organisation and it has generated significant amount of success over the last twenty years. And go to any mens' junior club [or AIL club for that matter] and ask their alickadoos' opinion of the union. You're not necessarily going to find a load of toasts going up.

And I have to add that if any Irish sportperson, man or woman, went to the Torygraph to have a b*tch and moan about how things are done in Irish sport I'd think they were a sap.

[Dave Cahill]

Their previous programme was heavily focused on Womens 7s as opposed to Womens XVs, and to be frank I could see the argument for that. We have very low participation numbers in womens' rugby and are in competition with – and lagging a long way behind – three other field sports in football, camogie and soccer.

The union were able to put together an offering that offered a trifecta of opportunities for elite female athletes: a chance to be a pro athlete in Ireland; a chance to be an Olympian; a chance to travel around the world to pursue your sport at a high level in great venues.

I think this was a key turning point in the evolution of the professional women's game in Ireland - it was a false start that put us 5-10 years behind teams like France and England who we previously were competitive against.

By 2015 Ireland had won two championships in three years (including a grand slam), had reached a world cup semi-final, and had beaten the Black Ferns. In many ways, they were outperforming the men's team. There were a corps of players (Coughlan, Spence, Stapleton, Molloy, Cantwell, Briggs, Neville and ors) who had come up together in the main. The first problem was they were also going to go out together and the search for the next generation was on. The second problem was that our rivals weren't sitting on their hands.

England and France, with their greater populations of both female players and people to watch them, professionalised their XV setups. Ireland put the emphasis on a combination of 7s and bringing in proven athletes from other codes like Lindsay Peat and Hannah Tyrrell (often using 7s contracts as the lure). The 'problem' was that the investment in the sevens programme produced a successful sevens programme and not a whole lot else. Outside of hardcore rugby fans though, Ireland though doesn't really care about sevens. It cares about Irish rugby things - Interpros, Internationals, The Six Nations - and they're XV things.

If anyone has read 'From There to Here' by Brendan Fanning, it outlines the transition to professionalism in the men's game and how the Union managed it. Now we're attempting to bring the same model to the women's game and there are teething problems, lots of them, but ultimately it will be successful I believe.

You can't build a pyramid from the top down, it has to be built from the bottom up. The problem is that the three teams the women's team will be compared with - France, England and the Irish Men's team, have their bases built and are approaching or are at the apex of the process whereas due to the wrong turn we took down 7's boulevard, Professional Women's rugby in Ireland is still laying the foundations.

[the spoofer]

I think whoever described it as damning hasn't really been following Irish womens rugby. Theres nothing in that article that isn't old news, reheated and given a stir for jollies. I'd probably be one of the most critical people on this site of how the IRFU treats female players and the womens game, but when I read the article all I thought was 'meh'.

I had the same reaction DC. I try and take any argument on its merits, and this seemed thin.

I think the IRFU are certainly trying harder now to get things right. There has been a number of new roles created and a number of changes in personnel within the last year:

• Gill McDarby has been appointed as Head of Women's Performance & Pathways

• Alana Gattinger appointed as Womens XV National Programme Manager

• Emma Brennan appointed as Performance Nutritionist, Womens National XV

• A new coaching team of Greg McWilliams, Niamh Briggs, Denis Fogarty & John McKee appointed for the Womens XV National team

• 43no. pro contracts created

• Eight new roles being created [2no. per province - 1no. athletic development, 1no. talent] with regard to talent identification and training https://www.irishrugby.ie/job_vacancies ... ent-squad/

They're behind where they could/should be, but they're making strides in the right direction and committing resources to the project.

Their previous programme was heavily focused on Womens 7s as opposed to Womens XVs, and to be frank I could see the argument for that. We have very low participation numbers in womens' rugby and are in competition with – and lagging a long way behind – three other field sports in football, camogie and soccer.

The union were able to put together an offering that offered a trifecta of opportunities for elite female athletes: a chance to be a pro athlete in Ireland; a chance to be an Olympian; a chance to travel around the world to pursue your sport at a high level in great venues.

As it turns out, it doesn't really seem to be in line with what most women who play and follow rugby in this country were looking for. But the union have always been a top-down organisation and it has generated significant amount of success over the last twenty years. And go to any mens' junior club [or AIL club for that matter] and ask their alickadoos' opinion of the union. You're not necessarily going to find a load of toasts going up.

And I have to add that if any Irish sportperson, man or woman, went to the Torygraph to have a b*tch and moan about how things are done in Irish sport I'd think they were a sap.

Very well argued case but that’s not going to cut the mustard with the #ifuckingcare crew. One idiot from a junior club has provided ammunition to the Torygraph to cause reputational damage to IRFU. The Torygraph were only too thrilled to have a kick at IRFU as it plays to their anti Irish readership.

[ronk]

It's not one idiot. It's both a wider held sentiment in the club game (and not unfair, the club game is competing on some levels for resources and attention with it) and reflects the belief of some elements within the women's game.

What's important is what happens next. Do the players and prominent supporters stand back (i.e. try to let others do the dirty work), pile in or defend the IRFU.

They get to decide what direction their long term relationship goes. Do they want Welsh drama, Irish harmony or Scottish simmering irrelevance?

[the spoofer]

It's not one idiot. It's both a wider held sentiment in the club game (and not unfair, the club game is competing on some levels for resources and attention with it) and reflects the belief of some elements within the women's game.

What's important is what happens next. Do the players and prominent supporters stand back (i.e. try to let others do the dirty work), pile in or defend the IRFU.

They get to decide what direction their long term relationship goes. Do they want Welsh drama, Irish harmony or Scottish simmering irrelevance?

All of us involved in Irish rugby have gripes about the IRFU. You don’t see our DORs running to an anti Irish platform to air them. We work within the system.

The same person is constantly on Twitter air his complaints without realising that his demands have knock on effects. More cash for the women’s game means less cash for someone else. Using refs as TJs in womens AIL means youth games go without proper refs or are cancelled. Resources are limited.

[ronk]

Women's rugby went outside the system and got special treatment and millions extra.

It was clear then that there was broader support and reasonable demands.

It's not clear yet how much support there is for this initiative. Will it grow legs, wither or be crushed by key stakeholders. Outside of hybrid contracts or matching private sector wages there isn't a lot that could be done. And that's not something that can easily be done.