Ireland v Argentina Q/F RWC 2015

[All Blacks nil]

I assume Joe is keeping plan B for a tilt at a first ever hat trick of Six Nations victories..

We will win some matches by playing "rugby by numbers"
Once we are in a fit state both mentally and physically we will probably win another 6 Nations but we will not win a RWC playing rugby that does not either create or attack space. it will be impossible to put 3/4 hugely physical and attritional games back to back



Is it a coincidence that the two sides who have suffered most from injuries are/were Wales and Ireland, the two sides who insist on using brute force to create space?

Will Joe realising that our current style is

[RoboProp]

I assume Joe is keeping plan B for a tilt at a first ever hat trick of Six Nations victories.

You know what they say when you assume

[leinster4life13]

I assume Joe is keeping plan B for a tilt at a first ever hat trick of Six Nations victories..

We will win some matches by playing "rugby by numbers"
Once we are in a fit state both mentally and physically we will probably win another 6 Nations but we will not win a RWC playing rugby that does not either create or attack space. it will be impossible to put 3/4 hugely physical and attritional games back to back



Is it a coincidence that the two sides who have suffered most from injuries are/were Wales and Ireland, the two sides who insist on using brute force to create space?

Will Joe realising that our current style is

Nah bro, Gordon Darcy says injuries are down to Wales doing too much gym work in pre season, our injuries are just bad luck

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I presume I'm not the only one who can't stop thinking about this...

Payne really was a massive loss. With respect to Earls, he'd have improved our defence out wide hugely. I keep saying I'd have switched Luke and Earls and the more I think of it the more it annoys me. Not just defensively but Luke needed to see more of the ball, he was on fire. Henshaw had a bit of a nightmare really. Both our centres lacked conviction taking the ball on or moving it wide, that was a big part of why we lost the gain line, and we left a few chances out there too. Open to correction on this but think it was Henshaw who hesitated and then chose the wrong option when we had an overlap during a period of huge pressure which resulted in Luke (I think) being knocked back and Argentina sending big numbers into the ruck and winning the ball back.

To make that worse, we badly missed POM and SOB to slow the ball down in the wide channels. That's a big part of why Argentina could move it from side to side with relative ease although their plan and execution were both top notch.

Individually we weren't too bad really...

Healy - average enough. Won one excellent turnover at a crucial time and his scrummaged improved as the game went on, but no real ball carrying or defensive impact. McGrath was outstanding when he came on. I'd have started him, not that he'd have had that impact over 50 minutes but just think he's playing better. It'll be interesting to see if Healy is ready to go for Leinster or if he was minding his neck at all.

Best - excellent. Great darts and good over the ball as usual, alive to loose balls etc.

Ross - scrum was mostly fine, can't say I noticed him otherwise aside from getting smashed at one ruck that he tried to counter. Telling that he was hauled off early though IMO.

Henderson - huge effort and seemed like he had no negative effect on our set piece. Some good chasing and defence but ultimately it looked like all that dirty work took too much out of him when it came to carrying.

Toner - pretty good I thought. Don't blame him for the high tackle, worked hard and took a lot on in the lineout. The dropped restart at the start of the second half was really poor though.

Murphy - three big moments and didn't notice him outside of them tbh. Wouldn't say he played badly but we needed him to bust people in contact and make more of an impact with his support play.

Henry - really good I thought. Played to his usual high standard and was still going strong at the end, he has a massive engine.

Heaslip - Excellent. Carried well and was just very good in everything he did. Would have liked to hear him talking to Garces more though. Garces definitely bottled the red card and Jamie should have been in his ear about that and several other things. I think there was another yellow waiting for Argentina if he had, there were plenty of opportunities for it.

Murray - okay. The passing in the backs was generally very slow and he was part of that. Box kicked quite well but seems to have stopped making breaks and the knock on at the back of the scrum was really bad.

Madigan - Pretty much the standard review, a mixed bag. Some of his place kicking and kicks to touch from penalties were excellent. At times he gave the ball to the centres in good areas and they messed up, other times he sent them into brick walls. There was one really aimless kick when we had good possession that took a lot of pressure off Argentina, and that was quickly followed by the kick straight out. Thought he was okay overall but would have liked to see him straighten up and get guys running really hard off him for a couple of phases, especially after we had been sent backwards and lost our shape.

Luke- Excellent. Definitely the best I can remember him playing for Ireland. Just a pity he didn't see more of the ball.

Henshaw and Earls - discussed above.

Dave Kearney - caught defensively a few times but worked hard in attack and was strong in contact on our possession. Thought he was very slow to get back for their second try. He had run forward and watched the ball go over his head. A few Irish players waited to see if we caught the ball, we didn't and were exposed out wide very soon after.

Rob - thought he was unusually quiet. Expected to see a lot of him given that we were missing so many leaders. Don't know how many balls I expected him to come and collect but there were other players there instead. Maybe it was just me but I thought that was odd.

Usually after a big defeat like this on an occasion like this there's a fairly intense inquest but I don't think there's a lot to worry about going forward. One thing we do need is more leaders. Obviously we were missing several through injury but the lack of obvious candidates when discussing the next captain on here was telling.

So to sum up...f%~k it anyway.

[simonokeeffe]

I assume Joe is keeping plan B for a tilt at a first ever hat trick of Six Nations victories..

We will win some matches by playing "rugby by numbers"
Once we are in a fit state both mentally and physically we will probably win another 6 Nations but we will not win a RWC playing rugby that does not either create or attack space. it will be impossible to put 3/4 hugely physical and attritional games back to back



Is it a coincidence that the two sides who have suffered most from injuries are/were Wales and Ireland, the two sides who insist on using brute force to create space?

Will Joe realising that our current style is

Nah bro, Gordon Darcy says injuries are down to Wales doing too much gym work in pre season, our injuries are just bad luck

our injuries were pretty much all in the one (ultra physical) match

Wales were losing 2 or 3 guys for the tournament and beyond every game

[leinster4life13]

Very generous ratings. Did Best hit anyone or make any carries of note? Healy was anonymous, buckled in a few scrums, carried nothing, hit nothing. Aside from "not getting mangled" in scrums did Ross contribute anything in open play?
Jordi Murphy combined all of POM's worst traits, too small at this level. Compare him to Matera and re rate his performance, or even Kaino yesterday, thats blindside play, Jordi is not at that level, he was a schoolboy among men.

Dave Kearney conceded four tries, now I'd put some blame on Earls not putting pressure or shielding him at all, but that doesnt excuse him. His performance reminded me of that Tottenham v Inter Milan game where Inter didnt play a winger and Bale *** Edited by Mod *** Maicon all day, ending his career as a top level full back, Kearney against top level opposition without a strong 13 covering him is clearly suicide.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Being brave and watching the highlights...really stupid penalty from Ross for them to make it 17-0.

[All Blacks nil]

Ratings

[FLIP]

Being brave and watching the highlights...really stupid penalty from Ross for them to make it 17-0.

One of the many Farces-cal decisions more like. Clearly released and went for the ball, not stupid at all.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Being brave and watching the highlights...really stupid penalty from Ross for them to make it 17-0.

One of the many Farces-cal decisions more like. Clearly released and went for the ball, not stupid at all.

No chance. Didn't clearly release and didn't play the ball until after the ruck had formed.

[leinster4life13]

Nah bro, Gordon Darcy says injuries are down to Wales doing too much gym work in pre season, our injuries are just bad luck

our injuries were pretty much all in the one (ultra physical) match

Wales were losing 2 or 3 guys for the tournament and beyond every game

Name one Wales injury that is due to them training in Spala and using cryotherapy. If some lad tears a pec overdoing it on the bench fair enough, Wales play a physical style of rugby, you pick up injuries running into people, its biology and physics, or in the case of Halfpenny just through bad luck, happens to everyone. This old school attitude that gym work or "becoming a a better athlete"(as its known in practically every other pro sport), causing injuries is ridiculous.

[All Blacks nil]

Ratings

R Kearney - 4 - oops- one of our leaders hiding in the trenches I'm afraid.
T Bowe - 5 - hard to assess before nasty looking leg injury, possible shin break
K Earls - 5 - a nothing game, part of a very passive defensive system, alarming to note that the Kearnage brothers and he missed 11 tackles between them
R Henshaw - 6 - solid aggressive defensive effort, not to many can have that said about them
D Kearney - 3 - Found out at the highest level - always struggling defensively as 5 missed tackles will confirm, out paced and out stepped
I Madigan - 4 - Big ask, no answer. Why oh why are his kickoffs so poor. Cross kick to Earls was reminiscient of the one that finished ROG's international career. Playing behind a beaten pack (set pieces aside )was too much for him
C Murray - 6 - Solid, couple of mistakes, kicking generally accurate, defensively excellent. The fact he had to make 9 tackles says it all.

C Healy - 4 - poor RWC - injured and out of form. work rate? shown up by Jack McG who out tackled and out carried him despite having a lot less game time. Can dead lift 1/4 ton
R Best - 8 - seriously good performance, accurate lineout, huge defensively and effective in the loose
M Ross - 6 - as on tin. Typically solid performance
D Toner - 6 - worked well in lineout
I Henderson - 6 - Reasonable performance. Big shoes to fill especially when the big leaders were stripped from the back 5
J Murphy - 4 - bullied at the breakdown apart from one great steal. Good support line for try but otherwise ineffective and out muscled
C Henry - 7 - tackled and harried well
J Heaslip - 6 - Did all the unseen work again, made tackles but rarely made them count, a comment that could have applied to almost everyone. Ineffective at

Replacements
J McGrath - 8 - As I said in a pre game post, should have played in front of Healy. Excellent performance, aggressive and physical, a cut above Healy on the day
C White - 6 - decent effort, offers a little more around the pitch than Ross.
R Strauss - 6 - Best-lite another selection I disagreed with and he did nothing to change my mind. Cronin coming on at 23-20 would have been nice.
R Ruddock - 5 - caught for pace on last try by Lobbe, but hey he made 19 tackles for the Wolfhounds Never got to pace of game
D Ryan - 6 token rating - strange decision or non decision not to bring him on earlier when collisions were going against Ireland.
E Reddan - 6 - token rating - little chance to effect game
L Fitzgerald 9 - Excellent performance and Irelands best back by a long way. Great try and a super physical break for murphy's try. one slight blemish was buying a dummy with only the touch judge outside him

Ireland were obviously hampered by injuries and each loss was keenly felt. Would a POC captained team have started as passively in a RWC 1/4 final? Would POM and SOB have allowed Ireland be so passive at the breakdown? Would Johnny have been a step up on Madigan? Would Payne have contributed to a more aggressive defence allowed Earls on the wing instead of DK

[Stuka]

Really depressing result.

Healy looks a shadow of his former self. Does anyone else think he has too much muscle mass these days to make a dynamic ball carrying impact like he used to? He should sit down with the S&C team and work out a way to try to reverse the current situation.

DK is getting slaughtered but you defend as a team and he was left isolated. He has shown in the past he is no slouch and can tackle. I feel sorry for him. I cant say the same for his brother though. RK cant tackle, his kicking game has regressed and he just has no spacial awareness. Has anyone seen the man make a decent atempt at running the ball back in the last 3-4 years? He gets the ball, runs back, slips and gets smashed!

Luke Fitz looked the international player we all knew he could be. I hope he can stay fit!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I think Rob's defence has come on hugely and has been particularly good for Ireland in recent years, but thought he could have got much closer to Cordero on the touch line early on and he made no impression on Imhoff when he sprinted across to try and nail him before his second try.

He's seemed like a man on a mission for Ireland ever since Joe took over but didn't think he was at the races today.

[dropkick]

I'm hoping this will be like 1999 and force a change in Irish rugby. A new attitude on how the game should be played. More tempo and skills based.


To me it looks like the likes of Wales and Ireland have spent the last decade bulking up to match England and France's size, at the expence of rugby talent. The SH sides play at much greater tempo and have a completely different attitude on how to play. Stuart Townsend is leading the way in the pro 12 while Axel Foley has brought Munster backwards to total bosh.

[leinster10]

Really disappointing performance, I thought we didn't pick the right 23 from the start, I would have started ryan with toner and hendo at 6, the pace and power of the game past murphy by, the whole backrow were cleaned out and it harshly hightlighted how badly we missed sob and another man who doesn't get enough credit in Pom, the lack of a contest at the breakdown gave them quick ball which gave there backs yards of space to play with. I hope in the next 4 years we move henshaw out to 13 with a guy like mcclouskey inside him. Would also love if fitz and earls get a run of games on each wing. Dave Kearney is a great squad player but was found out today against top opposition, missing 5 out of 9 tackles attempted is unacceptable at this level, rob also dropped off a few, how ryan wasn't put on earlier I'll never know and how Strauss was picked instead of Cronin baffles me. On the upside we have a great coach and 4 years now to really put his stamp on Irish rugby

[All Blacks nil]

Reviewing the match

!st try
Henshaw up fast and hits distributor as he passes
Heaslip holds back (Earls in line with him) with both arms out as ball goes to Lobbe. ball actually hit the ground on route.
Lobbe misses out Earls' man leaving 2 v 2.
DK shows his man the outside which he readily takes to create a 2v1
and Argentina score

2nd try
Earls is pillar defence with Henry, Heaslip, Ross and Best taking the line up outside him. Madigan and DK are wider with Murray corner flagging. Argentina pass in behind to go outside creating a 3 on 2. Madigan does well to drift but DK bites in off his wing and allows wide player through who chips ahead over the cornerflagging Murray and Argentina score

3rd try
Not so much an individual error as a system error with Ireland defending narrowly despite the fact that ARG had go forward ball and numbers out wide. A show and go by the FB did the rest

4th try
Arg scrumhalf wins loose lineout ball on ground from Strauss. One pass to Lobbe who skips by Toner and White and offloads under minimal pressure from Ruddock to tryscorer. He leaves both Kearneys for dead as Rob goes to ground and dave cannot hold on to his jersey.

A soft try

[All Blacks nil]

What if

Cian Healy played like Jack McGrath
Sean Cronin and not Strauss came on with the score 26-20
Donnacha Ryan started or came on before the game was lost
Luke switched with Earls when he came on.
Andrew Trimble wasn't watching the game in Belfast


All these options were available to Joe.

[tate]

As disappointing as ... well all our other world cups.

We only had two players I thought were better than their opposite man, best and fitzgerald, possibly heaslip too. Can't win a game like that.

What was up with our line speed? No sign of our maul either. We were poor in attack, very slow around the ball and the Argies were picking us off after second phase.

We were totally outclassed today, I think even with the injuries all we would have done was finish closer. SH vs NH is mot even a competition as of now. Hell, we're not even playing the same game

[outcast eddie]

Justin Marshall on BBC Wales Scrum V. has just predicted Argentina to beat us, "because they can't produce again, after last weekend and without SO'B."

That's exactly what JS will want to hear. Great motivation for our guys

Looks like Justin Marshall was right. The team just didn't seem in the right head space from the start. Maybe all the focus on the France game created a bit a a vacuum once it was out of the way. The Argies were more fired up even during the anthems.
We tried but individual lapses dragged us back; RK's poor clearance kick downfield (that they scored from) in the first half, Murry's knock on at the base and Mads' trademark missed kick to touch all robbed us of momentum at vital moments in the game.