LeRouxIsPHat wrote:I just assumed Ryan would be of the bench. Dev would have been unlucky to miss out too, but that's really harsh on Ryan.
Youd think Ryan covers 4 AND 5 and offers more carrying off the bench but theres the possibility theyre worried about Italian lineout with Furno and possibly Parisse and/or there's one eye on France
I had always assumed that Toner was one of those guys who makes the 15 or is out of the squad. To me he never looked like an impact sub. But they may be looking at Henderson to 6 or a row of Henderson and Toner etc once the match is won.
Ryan is unlucky. ALL I can say is in Joe we must trust.
Fireworks wrote:
I had always assumed that Toner was one of those guys who makes the 15 or is out of the squad. To me he never looked like an impact sub. But they may be looking at Henderson to 6 or a row of Henderson and Toner etc once the match is won.
Ryan is unlucky. ALL I can say is in Joe we must trust.
Winning ball at the tail of a lineout can be just as important at the end of a game as at the beginning. Just ask England
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blockhead wrote:Maybe, just maybe, he's thinking Hendo at 6, with POC and toner/ryan going forward. POM has been very quiet as of late.
This has been trotted out time after time and its still nowhere near happening - Henderson has played three games of the 6 so far as lock - he is not going to be in contention for a starting position at 6 while POM is fit (POM hasn't been quiet btw - was excellent v Canada). Its far more realistic to think that he is spreading game time (Henderson 2 starts Toner 1+1, Ryan 1 +1) and keeping both Henderson and Toner o their toes about their places for next week. Also possibly ooking at the option of Toner as a sub - something that we haven't seen before
POM isn't part of this discussion at all
BTW if anyone is kley to break the starting BR (and I don't think they will) its Henry not Henderson
Fireworks wrote:
I had always assumed that Toner was one of those guys who makes the 15 or is out of the squad. To me he never looked like an impact sub. But they may be looking at Henderson to 6 or a row of Henderson and Toner etc once the match is won.
Ryan is unlucky. ALL I can say is in Joe we must trust.
Winning ball at the tail of a lineout can be just as important at the end of a game as at the beginning. Just ask England
I've no issue with the idea of a safe sub like Toner - and its no harm to see it - the 4 locks ave all stood up so far and any combination wouldn't frighten me apart obv from POC missing and everything that goes with that ). That said I'd be surprised if Ryan didn't bench v France - hes a great bench option - very safe but huge impact atructime and defence - pretty quicaround the park as well
blockhead wrote:Maybe, just maybe, he's thinking Hendo at 6, with POC and toner/ryan going forward. POM has been very quiet as of late.
This has been trotted out time after time and its still nowhere near happening - Henderson has played three games of the 6 so far as lock - he is not going to be in contention for a starting position at 6 while POM is fit (POM hasn't been quiet btw - was excellent v Canada). Its far more realistic to think that he is spreading game time (Henderson 2 starts Toner 1+1, Ryan 1 +1) and keeping both Henderson and Toner o their toes about their places for next week. Also possibly ooking at the option of Toner as a sub - something that we haven't seen before
POM isn't part of this discussion at all
BTW if anyone is kley to break the starting BR (and I don't think they will) its Henry not Henderson
Love to have Ferris back at 6, never really replaced him. Good call on Henry, GMan. Seanie, Jamie and Chris would be a great backrow.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
blockhead wrote:Maybe, just maybe, he's thinking Hendo at 6, with POC and toner/ryan going forward. POM has been very quiet as of late.
This has been trotted out time after time and its still nowhere near happening - Henderson has played three games of the 6 so far as lock - he is not going to be in contention for a starting position at 6 while POM is fit (POM hasn't been quiet btw - was excellent v Canada). Its far more realistic to think that he is spreading game time (Henderson 2 starts Toner 1+1, Ryan 1 +1) and keeping both Henderson and Toner o their toes about their places for next week. Also possibly ooking at the option of Toner as a sub - something that we haven't seen before
POM isn't part of this discussion at all
BTW if anyone is kley to break the starting BR (and I don't think they will) its Henry not Henderson
I hope we try Henderson in this game personally. In my view, the most likely way we could lose the French game is if they just beat the sh!t out of us and simply overpower us. Unless there is a complete defensive implosion, I think we will outplay them in every other facet of the game. For the one game against France, I'd love to have POC, Toner, Henderson, SOB, Heaslip. For every other game in the world cup, I'd play O'Mahony.
“As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.”
Yeah and I think Ryan suits that really well too. Imagine if it was like 2014 where we're ahead of them but facing an onslaught of their big men just coming at us in wave after wave of attack, really like the idea of Ryan emptying people in the tackle when they run back on inside lines and he's superb at covering across the line too.
I don't see why it's unrealistic that we might look to have Henderson's power in the back row. I don't think he has any chance of passing POM to start and wouldn't want him to at this stage (although I'll be playing close attention to his shoulder on Sunday after what Hugonaut said last week) but if we are struggling physically against France and POM is anonymous then I think it's a no brainer to have that as an option.
For what it's worth, I'm quietly confident that it won't be an issue like its been in the past, but an injury or two could change that and you never know what kind of performance France will put in.
Henderson at 6 is the away/trench warfare selection and I dont see us needing that or likely to profit from that in the quarter final or against Australia or Wales in our most plausible semi final
France would be a more likely scenario but I would have thought that game we'd be more suited to moving their pack around more than trying to beat them up
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simonokeeffe wrote:Henderson at 6 is the away/trench warfare selection and I dont see us needing that or likely to profit from that in the quarter final or against Australia or Wales in our most plausible semi final
France would be a more likely scenario but I would have thought that game we'd be more suited to moving their pack around more than trying to beat them up
Is there any real belief that Henderson at 6 would win more ball for us? Dominate the breakdown? I really don't think he would. A mobile ball carrying aggressive lock is what he is. He probably is a better option at 6 than Ryan would be, but I don't think that's saying that much. I'd sooner Henry at 6 if POM were injured.
Joe has a tendency to send his biggest, hairiest pack away to France, and run them ragged at home.
I think that if we continue on an upwards arc that next week will be a home selection, all being fit.
simonokeeffe wrote:Henderson at 6 is the away/trench warfare selection and I dont see us needing that or likely to profit from that in the quarter final or against Australia or Wales in our most plausible semi final
France would be a more likely scenario but I would have thought that game we'd be more suited to moving their pack around more than trying to beat them up
Is there any real belief that Henderson at 6 would win more ball for us? Dominate the breakdown? I really don't think he would. A mobile ball carrying aggressive lock is what he is. He probably is a better option at 6 than Ryan would be, but I don't think that's saying that much. I'd sooner Henry at 6 if POM were injured.
Joe has a tendency to send his biggest, hairiest pack away to France, and run them ragged at home.
I think that if we continue on an upwards arc that next week will be a home selection, all being fit.
No, but Heaslip & O'Brien contest the breakdown for us too. O'Mahoney will start against France, but if the counter rucking and carries in traffic and yards after the tackle is made are blowing us back, we'll be in trouble against France. That's why I'd try Henderson.
“As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.”
fourthirtythree wrote:
Is there any real belief that Henderson at 6 would win more ball for us? Dominate the breakdown? I really don't think he would. A mobile ball carrying aggressive lock is what he is. He probably is a better option at 6 than Ryan would be, but I don't think that's saying that much. I'd sooner Henry at 6 if POM were injured.
Joe has a tendency to send his biggest, hairiest pack away to France, and run them ragged at home.
I think that if we continue on an upwards arc that next week will be a home selection, all being fit.
No, but Heaslip & O'Brien contest the breakdown for us too. O'Mahoney will start against France, but if the counter rucking and carries in traffic and yards after the tackle is made are blowing us back, we'll be in trouble against France. That's why I'd try Henderson.
there is no doubt that Henderson could absolutely do añ excellent job at 6 (Def a better option than Ryan there) but in your scenario above Henderson is playing - he makes the impact on the breakdown in either case but you have the added advantage of pom ahead of toner (talking about breakdown and collisions here). pom btw has become a version of Heaslip - essentially can do all the back row duties and generally does the right things maybe explains some leinster fans issues with him. There is more of an argument for Henry to start at 7 ahead of pom or whisper it sob than to have 3 locks in the pack
I don't think that you should need to whisper that Sean O'Brien should be the back rower feeling hot breath on his heels. He escapes criticism for ordinary performances due to being a fan favourite I think. He's one of ours and the other provinces patronisingly see him as being other than a Leinster player.
fourthirtythree wrote:I don't think that you should need to whisper that Sean O'Brien should be the back rower feeling hot breath on his heels. He escapes criticism for ordinary performances due to being a fan favourite I think. He's one of ours and the other provinces patronisingly see him as being other than a Leinster player.
Tis his farming background 433 don't ya know. Bucks the posh boy/D4/private school stereotype that they try to pigeon hole the Leinster players into. A profile of Rob Kearney the farmer/ex GAA player in todays indo ( http://www.independent.ie/storyplus/rob ... 77169.html) would serve only to annoy them more.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
fourthirtythree wrote:I don't think that you should need to whisper that Sean O'Brien should be the back rower feeling hot breath on his heels. He escapes criticism for ordinary performances due to being a fan favourite I think. He's one of ours and the other provinces patronisingly see him as being other than a Leinster player.
Thing about SOB is that his carrying is a bit inconsistent these days but his tackling and breakdown work are always off the charts. I have a hope that he'll come good in terms of carrying (not to 2011 levels but still an improvement) as he gets more games (still early in the season and he's missed an awful lot of rugby) but even if it doesn't then he still guarantees that really solid foundation and I think that's enough to ensure his place.
To my mind the POM "situation" is pretty simple. If we were having a game like England in 2014 where we were struggling to get over the gainline and he was fairly ineffective out wide, it'd be nice to see what Henderson could offer instead for longer than the ten minutes he got that day. That's literally it. I said a few weeks ago that I wouldn't mind Henderson starting against France but then POM looked much sharper against Canada so would certainly give him the nod next week.
I don't think any selection would be wrong really, more than one way to skin a cat.
