Ireland v Italy, 4/10/2015

[blockhead]

Very poor performance. But not as bad as the ref's, we were gifted a victory out there by a horribly biased ref. If I was Italian I'd be livid.

We took so many wrong options its almost pointless singling out anyone. But I thought Murray made too many given his position of influence.

Best was our top player by far. Henderson and POC did well, Pom definitely the standout of the back row despite the poor yellow. Heaslip was very solid and SOB was average for the SOB we have come to know and poor for the Tullow Tank he used to be.

Without Earls, this team has no cutting edge. I dont care if hes a better winger (which he is), hes the first bame on my teamsheet. Bowe was better but the whole backline made more bad choices than Peter André. Murray really choked our offense, it was like he didnt believe we were good enough to break them down. Sexton was guilty of this at times too, but Murray had the poorer game. Id have brought in Reddan after 50. By contrast, Some of the outside backs seemed to think we were so good that every Hollywood trickshot would come off.

But for the ref it might have been very nasty. Id say we would have had enough in the tank but Italy will never know as they were robbed of a straight shot at us.

You'll need to explain that one to me Jezzer,
With regards Murray. Yes we did go very narrow in the last 30mins. But I thought he did that well. When he did move it out, Sexton kicked to the corners, so it looked like we were trying to close the game down and stay in their half. Our backs saw very little ball in the 2nd half. I hate to say this, but I'm gonna. Ireland played MOCBALL out there today. We didn't break their line, went side to side, kicked aimlessly, poor at the breakdown, weak scum. I could go on and on. But hey we won and are in the Qs with a game to spare. The semis look a long way from here.

[Golf Man]

Maybe the world cup brings them out but there is some awful shite being spouted here tonight

I won't bother commenting on it

[JohnB]

There were worrying consistencies evident again in our play today; glacial line speed in defence, very lateral movement in attack, a technically deficient maul which undid good line out work elsewhere allied with some very poor kicking of the ball especially in the 2nd half. These aren't new problems - they've been evident for a while. As to personnel for the match against France I hope that Earls reverts to the wing, that Payne returns me to the centre, that Rob Kearney returns to FB and that Chris Henry starts in place of SOB. Given the enormity of the task ahead I have no doubt the requisite intensity will be there next week. If it isn't we are likely to be badly beaten by NZ and/or Argentina in the Qtr Final.

[fourthirtythree]

Hmmmm.... Scrum wasn't great, line out was decent, maul was poor. Maul defence was poor.

Thought before the match that OConnell would be taken off to give him a rest but we needed him and his desire at that point. I thought that POM was trying to generate that kind of impetus and I noticed one of his carries in that patch was feral. He had a mostly really good game, was one of our best performers for most of the game, and was desperately trying to get impetus into Ireland and got a little hot headed. Sean O'Brien was disappointing, Henry was an improvement. Heaslip was decent and did the right thing in the second half, intensity with intelligence. Henderson was not man of the match. I hate to agree with the telly but when we were watching it we picked Parrisse.

I don't agree with the telly on Murray though. He took on too much on himself and didn't deliver. Sexton drifted out of the game for most of the second half. He should have been demanding the ball and taking it by the scruff. He didn't. He wasn't at the right level.

I don't think that any of the pretenders really stuck their hands up. Maybe Henry.

While Bowe didn't set the place on fire he continued his rehabilitation, Zebo was just meh, Dave Kearney made me look forward to seeing our best winger, earls, playing next week. As did Earls in the centre. Henshaw made the try and showed some relish for big hits later on so hopefully he will be up to speed next week.

Who does that leave? McGrath will be unhappy with that I think, Best was excellent. Ross wasn't.

Subs didn't set the world on fire. Would have expected more go forward from Healy. Toner did well and settled things with some good physicality when he came on. Henry has to be pushing.

[fourthirtythree]

TV3 are talking about Heaslip and SOB being poor and I agree. I defended SOB in this thread but don't think he had much of an impact. He was unlucky with a couple of turnovers that should have resulted in penalties for us but he seemed a bit heavy legged or something. Still did some good things but just lacked impact.

The penalty Heaslip gave away was so unlike him and I really didn't notice him much at all in a positive way, did notice other mistakes though.

Heaslip had a poor first half, but was good in the second. Watch the last20 mins again - he was everywhere.

No...because then I might be wrong.

Just thought of another negative...Sexton missing another important kick at the end.

I think you might be... Heaslip hasn't had a good tournament or warmup series, but he stepped up in the last 20. Sexton disappeared though, and that would be more of a worry for me than that kick, which wasn't important as it left Italy with 30 seconds to score. Which wasn't likely I think.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Anyone think that the lads were asked to run at 75% to keep something in the tank for next week.

Line speed in defence was gash for almost entire match.

I'm really hoping this was the case, because otherwise Joe may find it difficult to lift them back up.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Watched the second half again to delay the Monday blues.

POC and POM were immense for most of it. POM had a couple of big carries, the tackle in the corner, and a brilliant take from the resulting lineout all in the first 8 minutes of the half. He kept playing really well up until the yellow card.

Sexton was often pushing up and had nobody joining him. His defence was really aggressive right up until near the end when he forced a knock on when he covered an Italian attack right across to the touch line. If he does that with Payne alongside him next week then we're sucking diesel.

The Italians read the wrap arounds too easily. When someone shot up we rarely took advantage of the space left behind and either chose the wrong option or didn't have another option. If Fofana does that next week then I'd hope Sexton takes a couple more on himself.

SOB looked wrecked after an hour. Stayed on the wing and took ages to get back to his feet after he did anything. To contrast with Henderson, when Henderson tackled Gori and then hunted down the player that Gori passed too, wrapped him up and won a scrum when the ball became unplayable, SOB was just walking the whole time. To be fair to him, he couldn't join in because we needed a body out there, but he just looked shattered too. Then from the scrum we kick downfield. There's one breakdown and the Italians run down the wing, Henderson arrives and puts in a huge hit. The ball gets moved back towards the centre of the pitch and SOB makes a tackle, takes ages to roll away, and gives away a penalty. They both got taken off straight after.

Murray was worse than I thought in the third quarter but himself and Sexton rallied very well and controlled things brilliantly for the last 10/15 minutes.

Bowe's kick chasing was superb right until the end and he looked much much fitter than in previous games when he was doing that. Really impressed on second viewing. Zebo sharper than I thought too, was in trouble a couple of times but was very composed and solid.

Sorry but I'm still not seeing why Heaslip was praised for the last quarter. He tidied up a couple of loose balls well and had one good half break at the end but that was really it in terms of positive play and there was nothing special about any of it.

[Golf Man]

Watched the second half again to delay the Monday blues.

POC and POM were immense for most of it. POM had a couple of big carries, the tackle in the corner, and a brilliant take from the resulting lineout all in the first 8 minutes of the half. He kept playing really well up until the yellow card.

Sexton was often pushing up and had nobody joining him. His defence was really aggressive right up until near the end when he forced a knock on when he covered an Italian attack right across to the touch line. If he does that with Payne alongside him next week then we're sucking diesel.

The Italians read the wrap arounds too easily. When someone shot up we rarely took advantage of the space left behind and either chose the wrong option or didn't have another option. If Fofana does that next week then I'd hope Sexton takes a couple more on himself.

SOB looked wrecked after an hour. Stayed on the wing and took ages to get back to his feet after he did anything. To contrast with Henderson, when Henderson tackled Gori and then hunted down the player that Gori passed too, wrapped him up and won a scrum when the ball became unplayable, SOB was just walking the whole time. To be fair to him, he couldn't join in because we needed a body out there, but he just looked shattered too. Then from the scrum we kick downfield. There's one breakdown and the Italians run down the wing, Henderson arrives and puts in a huge hit. The ball gets moved back towards the centre of the pitch and SOB makes a tackle, takes ages to roll away, and gives away a penalty. They both got taken off straight after.

Murray was worse than I thought in the third quarter but himself and Sexton rallied very well and controlled things brilliantly for the last 10/15 minutes.

Bowe's kick chasing was superb right until the end and he looked much much fitter than in previous games when he was doing that. Really impressed on second viewing. Zebo sharper than I thought too, was in trouble a couple of times but was very composed and solid.

Sorry but I'm still not seeing why Heaslip was praised for the last quarter. He tidied up a couple of loose balls well and had one good half break at the end but that was really it in terms of positive play and there was nothing special about any of it.

That's a pretty good analysis - I don't think anyone was really really bad - just there were plenty who were just ok. We were telegraphed in attack and very passive n defence - hard to believe that wasn't by design(and n fairness apart from Furno's effort Italy weren't close to soring at any stage, so maybe the defence did exactly what it was designed to

Murray and Sexton closed out the game pretty well ut need a step up especially in attack
Henshaw needed the games and will be better next week
Bowe was good I thought and will probably start (earney was pretty anonymous and should probably miss out)
SOB is not in good form at all you could never question his effort but he isn't carrying particularly well and isn't having much of an impact at eh breakdown - aral worry
Healy isn't offering much impact understandably but still we need it

Maul ius definitely an issue - had we scored at the end f the first half and made it 15/17 - 6 you would have thought it was a classic Ireland Italy game with us to start pulling away I the second half - it was a really poor effort with very little cohsionan no variation

[jezzer]

What was so bad about Garces? Thought he was good for the most part.

We were coming in the side and flopping ober all the time, never got pinged for it. They did itnless and got done for it more. We were allowed hold onto the ball om the deck, they weren't. Ref let two or three Irish forward passes go, therebwerebabcouple of passages of play where the ball was bobbling around, when we ended up with possession it was "play on", not so lucky for the Eyeties. They got penalised for a very marginal crossing call, we were doing it all game. They got done for a perfectly legit tackle. They got done for splitting a maul where we were clearly pulling it down. They got 30 second advantage, we got 10-phase advantage.

I could go on. Im doing the above from memory, so no doubt one or two of them could be corrected, but it was a hugely biased performance. I would have been screaming at the TV if I was Italian.

[blockhead]

What was so bad about Garces? Thought he was good for the most part.

We were coming in the side and flopping ober all the time, never got pinged for it. They did itnless and got done for it more. We were allowed hold onto the ball om the deck, they weren't. Ref let two or three Irish forward passes go, therebwerebabcouple of passages of play where the ball was bobbling around, when we ended up with possession it was "play on", not so lucky for the Eyeties. They got penalised for a very marginal crossing call, we were doing it all game. They got done for a perfectly legit tackle. They got done for splitting a maul where we were clearly pulling it down. They got 30 second advantage, we got 10-phase advantage.

I could go on. Im doing the above from memory, so no doubt one or two of them could be corrected, but it was a hugely biased performance. I would have been screaming at the TV if I was Italian.

I think they do that regrdless.

[OTT]

I thought Garces gave plenty against us but I was watching from an Irish bias so no doubt he let us away with plenty as well.

The one thing I thought was harsh on Italy was that he kept telling Parisse to play it at scrum time, is that a new law that you must play the ball when it is at the back of the scrum? What was harsh on Ireland was that the Italian front row were usually kneeling on the ground when he was telling Parisse to play it. hmmm..

[olaf the fat]

Who broke our maul? please fix it.

Oh and that pass back inside thingy that worked so well for Leinster against ASM a few years ago, thats not working either.

It was a great game for really upping our intensity though. It was always going to be a hard game get anything other than qualified from. We were going to win regardless (as it turned out) and Italy had the last opportunity to throw the kitchen sink at somebody when it still mattered. The big kids come out to play now.

[HUDSOC]

There were worrying consistencies evident again in our play today; glacial line speed in defence, very lateral movement in attack, a technically deficient maul which undid good line out work elsewhere allied with some very poor kicking of the ball especially in the 2nd half. These aren't new problems - they've been evident for a while. As to personnel for the match against France I hope that Earls reverts to the wing, that Payne returns me to the centre, that Rob Kearney returns to FB and that Chris Henry starts in place of SOB. Given the enormity of the task ahead I have no doubt the requisite intensity will be there next week. If it isn't we are likely to be badly beaten by NZ and/or Argentina in the Qtr Final.

Fully agree with your suggested changes though in the back-row I would personally go one step further : Henderson in at 6.
But I suspect yours above is the best we could hope for.

[Oldschoolsocks]

There were worrying consistencies evident again in our play today; glacial line speed in defence, very lateral movement in attack, a technically deficient maul which undid good line out work elsewhere allied with some very poor kicking of the ball especially in the 2nd half. These aren't new problems - they've been evident for a while. As to personnel for the match against France I hope that Earls reverts to the wing, that Payne returns me to the centre, that Rob Kearney returns to FB and that Chris Henry starts in place of SOB. Given the enormity of the task ahead I have no doubt the requisite intensity will be there next week. If it isn't we are likely to be badly beaten by NZ and/or Argentina in the Qtr Final.

Fully agree with your suggested changes though in the back-row I would personally go one step further : Henderson in at 6.
But I suspect yours above is the best we could hope for.

Id have Henry at 7 for sure, POM or SOB at 6 (don't care which it is) and keep Henderson in the 2nd Row tbh, I think he brings more to the party than big Dev and makes pack more dynamic. Else bring henderson to 6 and bring Donnchav Ryan back, but not sure how match fit he is.

[jezzer]

I thought Garces gave plenty against us but I was watching from an Irish bias so no doubt he let us away with plenty as well.

The one thing I thought was harsh on Italy was that he kept telling Parisse to play it at scrum time, is that a new law that you must play the ball when it is at the back of the scrum? What was harsh on Ireland was that the Italian front row were usually kneeling on the ground when he was telling Parisse to play it. hmmm..

Yeah, that was another one.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

What was so bad about Garces? Thought he was good for the most part.

We were coming in the side and flopping ober all the time, never got pinged for it. They did itnless and got done for it more. We were allowed hold onto the ball om the deck, they weren't. Ref let two or three Irish forward passes go, therebwerebabcouple of passages of play where the ball was bobbling around, when we ended up with possession it was "play on", not so lucky for the Eyeties. They got penalised for a very marginal crossing call, we were doing it all game. They got done for a perfectly legit tackle. They got done for splitting a maul where we were clearly pulling it down. They got 30 second advantage, we got 10-phase advantage.

I could go on. Im doing the above from memory, so no doubt one or two of them could be corrected, but it was a hugely biased performance. I would have been screaming at the TV if I was Italian.

Can't say I agree. The penalties Italy got were what kept them in the game and thought our discipline was good outside of the really stupid ones we gave away. He could easily have carded the Italian for the tip tackle (glad he didn't but some refs would have) and let POM off. I thought he was good but even if you disagree I really don't see how you could say he was biased.

[jezzer]

That wasn't a tip tackle, it shouldnt even have been a penalty. Anyway, enough about the ref.

We won and we're in good shape for the pool decider.

I think we have the beating of this France squad and there are arguments for believing we can beat either of our Qf opponents. We'll just have to be a lot more confident with the ball and clearer with our plan than we were against Italy.

[Oldschool]

That wasn't a tip tackle, it shouldnt even have been a penalty. Anyway, enough about the ref.

We won and we're in good shape for the pool decider.

I think we have the beating of this France squad and there are arguments for believing we can beat either of our Qf opponents. We'll just have to be a lot more confident with the ball and clearer with our plan than we were against Italy.

The one player in the French squad that worries me is Parra. The less we see of him the better.
We also have to take any points on offer. France will be fit enough to play for 80.
You covered most of the issues fairly, as usual. SOB is definitely struggling.

[matt]

Maybe the world cup brings them out but there is some awful shite being spouted here tonight

I won't bother commenting on it

Up to 10.45pm last night some awful garbage/trolling especially about POM who really is a key part of this team and currently our best back row.

Since them contributions more balanced.

Would expect our intensity, line speed & maul to be a lot better on Sunday.

I expect RK & Payne to replace Zebo & DK (Earls on wing) with Luke to stay on bench. Big question in pack is whether balance of back row needs Henry. You would have to be very close to squad & gameplan to know the answer to that.

[matt]

Sorry double post