Ireland v Scotland, RBS 6 Nations 2014

[Oldschool]

Yep, POM didn't do much tackling but he was ferocious at the breakdown, won some good turnovers. Maybe its the plan, with SOB out someone has to hover around the breakdown to try and force a turnover.
Solid display, got better as we went on. Considering we were missing, Bowe,Zebo,POC,Ryan,Ferris and SOB from our ideal first 15, not too bad.

POM as second man in a number of times helped Henry to complete the turnover.

[Dave Cahill]

The defence was comfortable because every other loose forward made double the number of tackles he made.

I would say that is more by design. If he weren't putting in the work, he wouldn't have played today - Joe simply wouldn't have it.

Watch the game again, unless he has no choice (i.e. theres no other player to make the tackle) you won't see O'Mahoney making the initial tackle, but rather hold back in order to try to effect the turnover. Its not a fluke, or laziness, its a tactic - and one that takes a huge amount of discipline on O'Mahoney's part. He has to go against everything he's learnt on a rugby pitch probably since he 7 or 8 in resisting the temptation to make the tackle, its actually a very impressive display of discipline from someone who hasn't always displayed that trait on the pitch. There has been a redivision of responsibilities in the absence of SOB. Henry and POM are actually very similar in style -Henry is probably a bit more of a footballer and POM a bit more of a grinder, but the game they play isn't really that different, Henry taking on the link-man part of the sevens role and O'Mahoney taking on the work on the deck.

[TerenureJim]

scotland have the worst back play of any 6 nations side and quite probably of any world cup side. Aside from Hogg they offered nothing in attack and I can't recall any set attacking move from them today or indeed all the Ai series

SJ is supposedly an attack coach? dreadful stuff

They could still be playing now and wouldn't have scored a try. They're already without Visser and have now probably lost Maitland as well. They look like they've regressed a couple of years to when they were utterly incapable of scoring a try.

Being a Scotland fan must be a fairly depressing experience.

Ah it's grand sure they have Vern Cotter coming in to sort it out, he's achieved a huge amount working with a limited player base and low budget. Oh wait.

[dropkick]

In fairness there's no need to complain about his tackling when our defence is really comfortable. If Wales start finding gaps next week and POM doesn't take it upon himself to fill in and send the Welsh runners back then it's a different story but when our defence is as well organised as it was today then he can save himself for other duties.

The defence was comfortable because every other loose forward made double the number of tackles he made.

Other people referred to lineout, but the lineout and tacking aren't somehow mutually exclusive. You can do both, and as a blindside flanker, 5 tackles made, 2 missed is something he needs to address. He played well overall, but he was FAR from man of the match, despite the commentators waxing lyrical.

You're completely missing the point. If POM didn't win those turnovers the whole team would have been making more tackles and Scotland would probably have scored more.


Also there are different types of tackles which don't get counted. But what you really need to watch is work rate. POM was everywhere and didn't duck out of anything so what's the problem?

[Oldschool]

The defence was comfortable because every other loose forward made double the number of tackles he made.

I would say that is more by design. If he weren't putting in the work, he wouldn't have played today - Joe simply wouldn't have it.

Watch the game again, unless he has no choice (i.e. theres no other player to make the tackle) you won't see O'Mahoney making the initial tackle, but rather hold back in order to try to effect the turnover. Its not a fluke, or laziness, its a tactic - and one that takes a huge amount of discipline on O'Mahoney's part. He has to go against everything he's learnt on a rugby pitch probably since he 7 or 8 in resisting the temptation to make the tackle, its actually a very impressive display of discipline from someone who hasn't always displayed that trait on the pitch. There has been a redivision of responsibilities in the absence of SOB. Henry and POM are actually very similar in style -Henry is probably a bit more of a footballer and POM a bit more of a grinder, but the game they play isn't really that different, Henry taking on the link-man part of the sevens role and O'Mahoney taking on the work on the deck.

An interesting observation.
POM didn't carry the ball very much today and I was wondering if this was the way that Joe had set things up.
Unlike yourself I haven't looked at the game for a second time yet and infact had a somewhat restricted first viewing.
Your analysis could well be how Joe set it up and not unexpectedly it will take time for POM and others to adjust.
It's worth remembering SOB didn't become a super 7 over night.

[CiaranIrl]

In fairness there's no need to complain about his tackling when our defence is really comfortable. If Wales start finding gaps next week and POM doesn't take it upon himself to fill in and send the Welsh runners back then it's a different story but when our defence is as well organised as it was today then he can save himself for other duties.

The defence was comfortable because every other loose forward made double the number of tackles he made.

Other people referred to lineout, but the lineout and tacking aren't somehow mutually exclusive. You can do both, and as a blindside flanker, 5 tackles made, 2 missed is something he needs to address. He played well overall, but he was FAR from man of the match, despite the commentators waxing lyrical.

You're completely missing the point. If POM didn't win those turnovers the whole team would have been making more tackles and Scotland would probably have scored more.


Also there are different types of tackles which don't get counted. But what you really need to watch is work rate. POM was everywhere and didn't duck out of anything so what's the problem?

I'm not missing any point, completely or otherwise. In both the posts above, I have he played well overall and made excellent turnovers, but not a man of the match performance. Or is your point that it's outrageous to say he wasn't man of the match? He made 5 tackles and missed two, and I think he needs to do better at that aspect of the game. I accept that he was focused on being the second man to the breakdown rather than being the first up tackler, but I doubt it was part of the gameplan for him to miss 2/3rds of his tackles, for example. One other example that stood out to me, there was a scrum where their number 8 made a textbook break and he didn't make the tackle, which any blindside should make. Murray made it for him.

[suisse]

Individually I thought Rob Kearney was brilliant and would have been close to MOTM for me. Murray very good too. The entire pack were good for the most part, very impressed with Touhy for playing so well having only found out that he was playing this morning. Thought Toner was excellent defensively and did a couple of really good things. He didn't play as well as he has been but still very good. McGrath was brilliant when he came on too, ridiculous amount of carries for a sub prop. Congrats to Moore on his first cap as well, thought he did well. Healy would have been my MOTM though I think.

Yeah, I thought Rob Kearney had a very good game as well. His performances for both Ireland and Leinster since linking up with the national squad in November have been very good, and he is approaching his 2009 form. I still do not think the criticism of him before this run was unwarranted. He is definitely playing a lot better now. He looks angry, aggressive, and showing a sh!t load of passion (or whatever you wanna call it) these days.

Trimble made a couple of good catches in the air and finished off his try well but some of his chasing of kicks wasn't very good. Too often he let the man away. As noted above, just more of the same with Trimble. Doesn't do enough. Solid shift, but I wouldn't have him near the squad if everyone was fit.

I thought our counter rucking, without Paul O'Connell and Sean O'Brien, was very good again. We killed New Zealand last November in that area. I presume this is the work of John Plumtree as I don't remember Ireland doing much of this under Gert Smal. Scrums were solid, at worst, and powerful, at best. I loved that first scrummage of McGrath, Cronin and Moore on half way. Future Irish front row right there (if Cronin can learn to hook).

A lot of Ulster players on the field in the end. Reward for a number of years of building with a very good academy.

We need to be more ruthless than that though. I know the comparison with NZ and SA is rather unfair, but if that team turned up in Auckland or Pretoria playing like that (Scotland) they'd be absolutely annihilated. BBC (can't get RTE commentary over here) were very complimentary of Scotland but despite our dominance in the second half, we never really went out to inflict maximum damage. I can understand the logic of taking off the key players early, but I thought we were very predictable out wide and were impatient at times too. Still seeing too much of the Les Kiss play in the backs from previous seasons - just shoveling the ball right to left, left, left, left. No-one taking it upon themselves (apart from Heaslip and BOD at one time each in the first half) to fix a man then pass. A few times we had space and numbers from right to left but ran out of both before any Scotland player got within 10 meters of a ball carrier.

Hopefully just first game rust but there was an opportunity to put a lot on Scotland. I didn't think that'd be the case before the game, and everyone here would have taken 28-6 before kick off, but I don't think any of us expected Scotland to be so awful.

Anyway, it was a decent start. Better from BOD too. I like seeing Marshall in that team. Will be a good battle up to the RWC with GD.

[simonokeeffe]

To solve Scotland's backplay impotence Johnsons went with the 2 biggest lumps they could find in centres
Know he's only coming back from injury but Mark Bennet badly needed, Conor O'Shea raving about Matt Scott but IMO he's glacial

[Donny B.]

Thought O'Mahony should have got man of the match. Jamie had a good game, just thought O'Mahony was that little bit better

Thought O'Mahoney was terrific in the first half but faded a little in the second. Actually would have given Henry MOM, thought he was excellent throughout.

[Golf Man]

Some interesting views

Generally
Set Pieces were good
Contact area was good
Pack definitely performed as a unit
Defence in general was good but we definitely allowed them too much space in the first half - a better team would have punished us
Attack was a bit muted - we didn't create a whole lot through the backs - no major incision
Scotland were rubbish - aside from Hogg who is excellent

Individually
Healy - think his performance has been overstated tbh - messing around in the scrum, although he was solid there, 1 great carry in teh second half and decent throughout - not a whole lot more than that
Best - when the darts are on he is our best option by a mile
Ross was ok but not great
Tuohy - thought he had an very good game - showed up in all facets without being outstanding
Toner - ok - gave away a couple of silly penalties, worked hard but not a whole load of impact
POM - our best player in the first half easily (when we really needed it). Not quite as prominent in the second half. Couple of those turnovers were vital.
Henry - good solid display
Heaslip - wasn't overly impressed in the first half, excellent in the second
Murray - couple of errors but generally very good
Sexton - slow start but really grew into the game - we need more penetration outside of him
Trimble - a standard Trimble performance - no huge errors (some chasing not great)
Marshall - excellent in defence, not used enough in attack
BOD - good in defence after a ropey enough opening - didn't offer a huge amount in attack
Kearney - did what he does, no mistakes, catches, carries, kicks - all well and good but no impact
Kearney - very good in the air and carried well - lacks pace to really make breaks though, and needs to pass more
ould come into teh reckoning
Bench - all made an impact but McGrath stood out a mile - excellent cameo from him

A couple of other points
On the POM debate - we all have our favourite players, but at least try to keep some sense of balance - POM doesn't tackle enough - he's either lazy/incapable or its part of the system. When Heaslip doesn't carry as much - he's either lazy/incapable or it part of the system - I don't care which way people view it but at least be consistent

For next week I don't think there will be any changes in the the front row - Moore can probably be expected to play for a bit longer. I do want to see Kilcoyne get invovlement in the 6Nations - Schmidt has gone with Healy/McGrath for four, presumably five games now - if we are building a squad them Kilcoyne needs to be given a chance
POC obviously comes back in - I would pick Tuohy to start - I thought he has the more impressive lock yesterday and potentially could be a great foil for POC - also as with Kilcoyne, Toner has played all games so far I think (prettyy impressively), lets see what a Tuohy/POC combination is like
Backrow to stay the same - possibly drop TOD for Copeland or Ruddock, dependent on requirements
Half Backs the same - Reddan if fit on the bench - Madigan possibly on the bench
I'd keep Marshall again, but Darcy has been good this year - should be open selection then for England though - not predetermined
Note sure what the injury toll at wing is likley to be - we need some impact though - Zebo really should come into the reckoning, especially if Fitz is unavailable

Bench - probably quite similar apart from what I've suggested above - maybe bring Henshaw on - if McFadden starts

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Just on the POM thing, agree with CiaranIRL that missing tackles (particularly off the scrum although to be fair to him he did get back and help Murray nail Denton) is unacceptable but my point is more about the number of tackles he makes. Had he made all 7 of his tackles then that's acceptable to me as long as our defence his good. Not excusing him missing tackles but at the same time I don't think he needs to be looking to double his figures either.

I didn't see a replay because I legged it to make a cup of tea but did Toner not come through the middle when he gave away a penalty in our 22? It looked very harsh to me but like I said I didn't see it twice.

I know we won so that helps but thought Joubert was pretty good over all. Let the Scots away with not rolling away and could maybe have done more to iron out the scrum issues but still thought he did well. Communicates really well with the players.

[kendalgerty]

GM, some of that could be squad development for the sake of it. Jack McGrath had a really good cameo and himself is only getting a feel for this level, would we really be better off leaving him out altogether for Kilcoyne for a match? If anything, I'd prefer to see McGrath start one match, which would do more for squad develpoment. Kilcoyne is a good player, but he started the season very slowly and McGrath has got the jump on him.

[Golf Man]

Just on the POM thing, agree with CiaranIRL that missing tackles (particularly off the scrum although to be fair to him he did get back and help Murray nail Denton) is unacceptable but my point is more about the number of tackles he makes. Had he made all 7 of his tackles then that's acceptable to me as long as our defence his good. Not excusing him missing tackles but at the same time I don't think he needs to be looking to double his figures either.

I didn't see a replay because I legged it to make a cup of tea but did Toner not come through the middle when he gave away a penalty in our 22? It looked very harsh to me but like I said I didn't see it twice.

I know we won so that helps but thought Joubert was pretty good over all. Let the Scots away with not rolling away and could maybe have done more to iron out the scrum issues but still thought he did well. Communicates really well with the players.

On the Denton near miss - I'd like to see that again. My impression was that we had the shove on the scrum and then Denton broke well - Heaslip made a poor attempt to tackle him and Henry didn't stop him either - I actually thought that POM was the decisve hit in saving the try (not to say he shouldn't have stopped him first up)

[LeRouxIsPHat]

As would I GM but the one thing I'd say is that POM has previous for not being good off his left shoulder, particularly off scrums. I certainly thought Murray made the hit but would also like to see it again to see why POM missed it in the first place.

[Logorrhea]

On the Denton near miss - I'd like to see that again.

We were over committed to the drive and got sucked in when it went down. POM was taken out of the defense my the scrum move so he couldnt be there. Thought Jamie did alright to hold him up and the lads finished it off. Didnt see any fault with any of them. Thought it was damn good defense all round.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rqe-NWRSGM

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Agree with Kendalgarty about Kilcoyne, it'd be different if McGrath was more experienced but I think we'd be doing well if we even just gave McGrath one start. He really was brilliant off the bench yesterday. Healy is arguably our most important forward now but the idea of losing him to injury isn't as scary as it might have been.

Joe has said he plans on using 34 players through the tournament.

Obviously there were 23 players yesterday.
POC to come in next week and Ryan later on in the tournament would make 25 although tbh I'm not sure about bringing Ryan back in.
Possibly Ruddock to get a start against Italy? 26
Reddan to come back next week. 27
Darce 28
At least two wingers in Bowe and Luke 30
Maybe Henshaw to bench against Italy? As I said before, can't not see Bod starting his last home game against Italy if fit. 31

Three spaces left, perhaps they might just be pencilled in as injuries but I would think Strauss is in the mix, don't think Joe ever really trusted Cronin. Zebo is another possibility. Maybe Madigan but I'd put him in the same boat as Kilcoyne.

Or if I can dream for a moment....Ferris and SOB!

[Golf Man]

GM, some of that could be squad development for the sake of it. Jack McGrath had a really good cameo and himself is only getting a feel for this level, would we really be better off leaving him out altogether for Kilcoyne for a match? If anything, I'd prefer to see McGrath start one match, which would do more for squad develpoment. Kilcoyne is a good player, but he started the season very slowly and McGrath has got the jump on him.

McGrath started the season relatively well - i think it was slightly overplayed how good he was and it was definitely overplayed how bad Kilcoyne was. I'm probably a bit biased towards Kilcoyne, but i think he's got a bit of a raw deal - was excellent at every level last year, started a bit slower but has really picked up again recently. Despite this he hasn't got a look in - it just seems to me that a decision was made very very early on teh looseheads and nonoe else has gotten a chance - for a specialist position I think this is not good. By all means let McGrath start a game, no issue with that. Likewise there should be no issue with giving Kilcoyne a chance also

[Broken Wing]

GM, some of that could be squad development for the sake of it. Jack McGrath had a really good cameo and himself is only getting a feel for this level, would we really be better off leaving him out altogether for Kilcoyne for a match? If anything, I'd prefer to see McGrath start one match, which would do more for squad develpoment. Kilcoyne is a good player, but he started the season very slowly and McGrath has got the jump on him.

McGrath started the season relatively well - i think it was slightly overplayed how good he was and it was definitely overplayed how bad Kilcoyne was. I'm probably a bit biased towards Kilcoyne, but i think he's got a bit of a raw deal - was excellent at every level last year, started a bit slower but has really picked up again recently. Despite this he hasn't got a look in - it just seems to me that a decision was made very very early on teh looseheads and nonoe else has gotten a chance - for a specialist position I think this is not good. By all means let McGrath start a game, no issue with that. Likewise there should be no issue with giving Kilcoyne a chance also

I think you're reading too much into things. More than one player has come out and said that Joe tells them what they need to work on to be considered for inclusion. Tuohy speaks about it again in the Indo today. I would be very surprised if Kilcoyne wasn't told exactly why people were ahead of him and what he needed to do to make his case.

I'd have no issue with him getting a run because, barring injuries, he's going to get it when Joe is happy that he's taken action on whatever was keeping him out.

[Logorrhea]

You cant seriously consider dropping him, after a performance like that. He needs more game time not less.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

On the Denton near miss - I'd like to see that again.

We were over committed to the drive and got sucked in when it went down. POM was taken out of the defense my the scrum move so he couldnt be there. Thought Jamie did alright to hold him up and the lads finished it off. Didnt see any fault with any of them. Thought it was damn good defense all round.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rqe-NWRSGM

Have to say I really enjoyed our driving in the scrum yesterday. Really was great to see.

POM is slightly unlucky there but as a back row on opposition ball your priority has to be keeping your eyes up and defending your channel. I have sympathy for him but he shouldn't have lost sight of what was happening.